Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

I'm not trying to excuse McGuire at all, but IMO the evidence of intent to injure looks questionable. McGuire came out of a turn and adjusted to a wider stance to deliver an open ice hit on Reilly who was the puck carrier, and leaned right in Reilly's direction, so naturally his knee would be slightly out to provide angle support for the hit. And Reilly did duck the check, so he saw McGuire and knew what was coming. But he was more concerned about the puck he just lost and did not completely stride or jump out from in front of McGuire and unfortunately exposed his knee.

Open ice hits in the neutral zone are usually high speed collisions. In a situation like that he needs dump the puck immediately and prepare to win that battle to put McGuire on his back...exactly like THIS. But let's say Tony focuses on the puck instead and tucks his right shoulder in to avoid the hit like Reilly did, but drags his leg and takes that hit...it's very likely a knee to knee. McGuire said it was an accident and I believe him. But you'll have to decide for yourself if he's telling the truth >>> here's McGuire's explanation at the post game press conf. beginning at 9:50.

What else is he going to say? He stuck his knee out. Just like Cooke did last year in the playoffs. Same situation. Cooke got the book thrown at him.

You know what makes me the maddest? Every hit like this in the NHL and college is adjudicated on a blame the victim mentality. Oh, he turned, or oh he had his head down, or...............

 

[Gurtholfin]

What else is he going to say? He stuck his knee out. Just like Cooke did last year in the playoffs. Same situation. Cooke got the book thrown at him.

Lol.

Many (Most?) of you were defending Cooke. But now...?


Fwiw, if he stuck out his knee (still haven't seen the play), malicious intent or not, I'd have no problem with a suspension.


99.9% of the time, I fall into the "responsibility lies with the hitter, not the hittee" camp.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

Lol.

Most of you were defending Cooke. But now...?


Fwiw, if he stuck out his knee (still haven't seen the play), malicious intent or not, I'd have no problem with a suspension.


99.9% of the time, I fall into the "responsibility lies with the hitter, not the hittee" camp.

I don't defend knee to knee hits. Or head shots. Or players (Ballard hit this year) that travel 90 feet to destroy someone into the boards.

 

[KaMiGo]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

(still haven't seen the play)

I'm not going to wade into the iffy area of screen capturing or using my phone to record the video, but the game replay is available on the btn2go website here if you have BTN through your video provider.

The hit comes at about the 38:30 mark of the recording.

It looks nasty, but didn't necessarily look malicious, I can see the argument going either way.

 

[Go4PuckFan2.0]

I'm not going to wade into the iffy area of screen capturing or using my phone to record the video, but the game replay is available on the btn2go website here if you have BTN through your video provider.

The hit comes at about the 38:30 mark of the recording.

It looks nasty, but didn't necessarily look malicious, I can see the argument going either way.

Coming on heels of Wittchows cheap shot on Bristedt two weeks ago the benefit-of-doubt possibilities are slim.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

Appears to me this is how Reilly's knee is hurt. Mcguire misses the shoulder and goes past, Reilly's extended trailing leg gets trapped below McGuire's right leg and is bent downward. (sideways)

Ouch... I've had three knee surgeries, and that hurts.

<a href="http://imgur.com/WFMMqqb"><img src="http://i.imgur.com/WFMMqqb.jpg" title="source: imgur.com" /></a>

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

What else is he going to say?

Then the burden of indisputable proof is on you to prove he's lying.

He stuck his knee out.

No he did not. His knee remained at the same angle from his initial turn in the neutral zone to plant an edge and gain leverage for the intended hit. If you want to take someone's knee out, I would not recommend doing it using your own knee as a weapon at high speed. McGuire does not impress me as being that stupid.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

Too much leniency on McGuire here. He showed zero concern as he was smiling and laughing even as Reilly was being attended to. You could even argue that the hit was not intentional...but you cannot argue that he doesn't feel bad in the slightest. Based on his behavior in the box...the post game presser was a total CYA move so the B1G doesn't throw him in jail.

 

[HarleyMC]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

Too much leniency on McGuire here. He showed zero concern as he was smiling and laughing even as Reilly was being attended to. You could even argue that the hit was not intentional...but you cannot argue that he doesn't feel bad in the slightest. Based on his behavior in the box...the post game presser was a total CYA move so the B1G doesn't throw him in jail.

He was interacting with a fan while in the box, but I see your point. The evidence does not conclusively suggest intent to injure. But I'm sure Lucia will be on the phone Monday morning and I would not at all be surprised if McGuire gets a one game suspension just to make a statement about dangerous hits.

Here's the VIDEO of the hit on Reilly.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

then the burden of indisputable proof is on you to prove he's lying.



No he did not. His knee remained at the same angle from his initial turn in the neutral zone to plant an edge and gain leverage for the intended hit. If you want to take someone's knee out, i would not recommend doing it using your own knee as a weapon at high speed. Mcguire does not impress me as being that stupid.

bs.

your giving the hitter a free pass and blaming the victim. it's pervasive in hockey to do that and I don't understand it.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Yeah... I don't like how that looks.

He could have pulled his leg and avoided the contact.

In addition, I don't see him leading with the shoulder to try to and hit Reilly shoulder to shoulder. What it looks like to me is that he's simply sticking to his line and not giving it up.

He's essentially skating through an area and Reilly's knee happened to be in that area.

To say he stuck out his knee though is also false.


To sum up, I'd like to have seen him pull his leg out when it became clear that he wasn't gonna be able to land a check.

Trust me, it's a fairly easy reaction to make - even at high speed. It's something that all of us who play have to choose to do so as not to have that kind of collision - for our own knee as well as our opponent's.


And I don't want to hear "You don't understand the speed that these guys are playing at."

I do. I still play in VERY fast groups and we all have to make quick decisions so as not to maim each other every week.

In addition, while these guys are playing at a very high speed, they also have better reaction times than you or I do. It's part of what makes them D-1 caliber.


I don't like to see that play.

 

[ExileOnDaytonStreet]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

I think most of us are on the same page here. It wasn't malicious and he didn't stick his leg out, but it was definitely stupid to keep his leg where it was. Intent or no, that's a thing that we can't have in the game anymore. Regardless of how much I like McGuire and will not listen to anyone claiming this as intentional or that he was being lighthearted about it, I'm not going to complain if he gets a game for it.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

He could have pulled his leg and avoided the contact.

Here's my question. McGuire is carving hard up ice to his right with his left skate outside his shoulders. As soon as he attempts to change direction back to his left, or even straighten out (which it appears he tries to straighten out when he sees he's going to miss, as his right skate turns back) his up ice momentum should shift his weight onto his right leg. Which is the one he needs to pull out of the way. You can't stand on one leg and pull it out from under yourself.

What say you to that thought?

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

Here's my question. McGuire is carving hard up ice to his right with his left skate outside his shoulders. As soon as he attempts to change direction back to his left, or even straighten out (which it appears he tries to straighten out when he sees he's going to miss, as his right skate turns back) his up ice momentum should shift his weight onto his right leg. Which is the one he needs to pull out of the way. You can't stand on one leg and pull it out from under yourself.

What say you to that thought?

His weight is on his outside (left) leg.

 

[gopher wes]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

McGuire doesn't have it in him to be a dirty player. It's just not in his personality. Ben Clymer (who I hate doing color) was making something of McGuire smiling in the penalty box. There is never a time when McGuire is not smiling. Ever. He's just happy-go-lucky by nature, plus it's just the way his face works.

McGuire maybe didn't laugh, but the other BADger player in the box DEFINITELY smiled and laughed. I watched the replay yesterday and it was blatant. What they were laughing about? Hard to say, but at that exact moment......it's pretty easy to speculate.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

McGuire maybe didn't laugh, but the other BADger player in the box DEFINITELY smiled and laughed. I watched the replay yesterday and it was blatant. What they were laughing about? Hard to say, but at that exact moment......it's pretty easy to speculate.

Speculate away.

Some of you guys seem to need for there to be some far reaching agenda against your team instead of seeing this for what it was - one unfortunate incident.

 

[Wisko McBadgerton]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

His weight is on his outside (left) leg.

Yep, I think you're right. He fights the shift in angular momentum by trying to move his upper body left over his left skate and his shoulders turn left. The problem then seems to be he's torquing in the opposite rotation that he would need to be in order to pull his right out.

I don't know. I think after watching it a few more times it seems that at five feet away his brain has gone from judging it to be a collision to judging he's going to get by clean as most of Reilly is to his right (except obviously his trailing leg.) Neither happens though.
I do agree that in rec hockey a guy can get out of the way of that at even at speed. By the same token though, guys aren't trying to blast each other in the neutral zone in rec hockey on a regular basis much either, and the mindset on both parties is toward avoiding open ice collisions. Here, especially as a fourth liner, McGuire is going to be trying to create collisions and it's a ways further to go mentally from one to the other in the time allotted.

I'm ok with a suspension or not, either way. It's certainly not a play anybody wants to see.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

Yep, I think you're right. He fights the shift in angular momentum by trying to move his upper body left over his left skate and his shoulders turn left. The problem then seems to be he's torquing in the opposite rotation that he would need to be in order to pull his right out.

I don't know. I think after watching it a few more times it seems that at five feet away his brain has gone from judging it to be a collision to judging he's going to get by clean as most of Reilly is to his right (except obviously his trailing leg.) Neither happens though.
I do agree that in rec hockey a guy can get out of the way of that at even at speed. By the same token though, guys aren't trying to blast each other in the neutral zone in rec hockey on a regular basis much either, and the mindset on both parties is toward avoiding open ice collisions. Here, especially as a fourth liner, McGuire is going to be trying to create collisions and it's a ways further to go mentally from one to the other in the time allotted.

I'm ok with a suspension or not, either way. It's certainly not a play anybody wants to see.

He could have also drawn his right foot closer to his left and behind it without much effort as his weight and pressure was on the inside edge of his left foot. It could have absorbed the weight.

I thought about the fact that we aren't looking to hit each other or run into each other in my hockey, but there are frequent instances where you look up and someone is right in your path and you must react very quickly and it's simply second nature. It all happens in a millisecond.

That's why I believe in this instance, McGuire (someone with FAR better reflexes than me) could have avoided this. There would be several of these every game even in full contact hockey if guys didn't actively try to avoid them.

I doubt he intended to maim Reilly in this way though. I've known an awful lot of hockey players and while they'll revel in bringing the pain on a clean hit, they rarely (if ever) are proud of any cheap shots or plays where someone gets injured - even on a clean hit.

Who knows though, maybe McGuire is the boogeyman that some want (need) to make him out to be.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

Bottom line is unlike you Gurtholfin most hockey fans try to justify these hits or excuse the hitter. And we only suspend guys (he's getting one game for it) 1 game for this stuff? And they really expect players to stop doing it?

Please.

 

[Bonin21]

Re: Minnesota @ Wisconsin: 1/30 & 1/31

Chris Dilks nailed it. If the Big Ten wants to make a statement, suspensions shouldn't happen until the conference tournament. The badgers season is over, so one game or five games for a player doesn't mean much.