Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

[joehockey]

I know this is the Women's Forum but this was an open letter to Minnesota Hockey from Jack Connolly - any hockey fan would love reading his balanced perspective. It most applies to the Girls Youth approach and Minnesota Girls HS Teams also but also to girls playing outside of MN.

http://www.minnesotahockey.org/news_article/show/148975?referrer_id=80470

Hobey Baker winner Jack Connolly sends his thanks to the Minnesota Hockey community05/11/2012, 12:21pm (CDT)
By Jack Connolly
.May 7, 2012:


Dear Minnesota Hockey:


I recently had the honor and privilege of being named the 2012 Hobey Baker Award Recipient as the top men’s college hockey player. Wow! Just typing that sentence and reading it over and over causes all kinds of wonderful emotions and thoughts in my head. But more so than anything, it makes me realize how fortunate I am to be from Minnesota, especially Duluth.


I put my skates on for the first time in the warming house at the Duluth Heights outdoor rink when I was four. And some of the other four year old kids that were putting their skates on for the first time next to me in the warming house that winter are still some of my best friends today, 18 years later. We grew up on the outdoor ice rinks and then eventually the indoor ice rinks in the Duluth area. My friends and I are extremely lucky to have been coached by so many wonderful people who instilled into all of us a passion and respect for the game. I was fortunate enough to play in the state high school hockey tournament and eventually play for my hometown Bulldogs, being part of a memorable team that won the school’s first National Championship. But it all started with the foundation that was built for me by the community hockey system that Minnesota has.


In recent years, I’ve been able to play on teams with players from all over North America. After talking about our childhood hockey experiences, I quickly realized that hockey elsewhere is not quite like hockey in Minnesota. As a mite and squirt playing for Duluth Heights, all I wanted to do was beat the other Duluth neighborhood teams including Piedmont Heights, Glen Avon, Portman, Congdon Park, Woodland, etc. Then at the PeeWee and Bantam level I played for Duluth East, which increased my list of rivals to places such as Cloquet, Grand Rapids, and Hibbing. Then came high school hockey at Duluth Marshall and games against Hermantown. The only thing better than a high school game against Hermantown was a win against Hermantown! All of this was done with my friends. All of this was done while living in the same house where I’d fall asleep as a four year old dreaming about hockey. All of this was done while continuing to play soccer at a high level throughout high school. No, I didn’t join an all-star team of 10-year old kids in the winter and go to tournaments in Quebec City or Buffalo. I played with kids from across the alley and down the street and a big road trip was a tournament in Coleraine. I didn’t move away at age 14 to pursue my hockey dreams. Instead I stayed home to play the game I love with my friends, and had a blast doing it!


I did develop. I developed as a hockey player and as a person. And for that I want to thank everyone who is involved in hockey in Minnesota. The coaches at Duluth Heights that picked me up when I fell as a four year old. The people connected with Minnesota Hockey that oversee all of the community associations in the state. I truly appreciate all that you have done for me and for other young hockey players in Minnesota. I encourage you to keep doing it because hockey in Minnesota works and is indeed special. From the bottom of my brand new Hobey Baker award, thank you!!


With Thanks,


Jack Connolly

 

[brookyone]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

I've always had an admiration for the kids sticking it out with their neighborhood / local teams and the teammates...their local friends, and particularly enjoy when they succeed via that environment. Jack is right I believe, in that such a path might be advantaged by the community based hockey system in Minnesota. A nice letter...classy.

That would be in comparison to living in a locale with no such widespread community support.

 

[Call It]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

Very Classy. Well said and amen.

I noticed his brother didn't take the same route to the NCAA. Perhaps he learned from his brother mistakes? Well, I guess if you call Boston U. a mistake. I for one think Minny is the only one that does it right. The girls seem to stay more than the boys.

Why would parents pay for a girl to play 4th line on a select team as a senior? They should play with their friends, for free! Clearly the boys have more options that are free or cheaper than the girls have like the USHL or NTDP USA Hockey.

When you sign your child up for hockey, what is the goal? Some, from day one think of a scholarship for little Johnny/Jane. They are the ones that ruin it. Always looking for the next best team. Some of these parents have money and most DO NOT! Some of us are stuck trying to keep up with the Jones so are kids don't get left behind, so we think.

Some questions I have,

1. Where does USA Hockey stand with this? Is it a follow the money because MN HS is not under USA Hockey thus they try to get the better players to leave to the USHL or JWHL?

2. Would Chris Connolly (Jack Connolly brother) receive a scholarship had he stayed and played MN HS hockey? What about MR & MRS Connolly, what was a better investment Chris or Jack?

Those are heavy questions for PARENTS to answer. Seems to me lately that USA Hockey is a money grab for adults who can't get a real job. Have you read USA Hockey's budget, more money to the NTDP than the youth side of it. Why?

I bet the top 20 Minny U18 players could beat the top 20 from the other 49 states.

I don't know the answers but I think Jack did it right.

 

[Hockeydad4two]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

...

That would be in comparison to living in a locale with no such widespread community support.

Having community support is the key. In Illinois for instance, if you don't live in the Chicago area, forget being able to play on a "local" team for the girl's. There aren't enough girls playing.

 

[Call It]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

Having community support is the key. In Illinois for instance, if you don't live in the Chicago area, forget being able to play on a "local" team for the girl's. There aren't enough girls playing.

Perhaps this is the role of S-SM, the New England Preps or the JWHL. Is there anywhere else in the US where it could/ would be comparable to MN HS in terms of local quality hockey for little to no money?

 

[Hux]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

Perhaps this is the role of S-SM, the New England Preps or the JWHL. Is there anywhere else in the US where it could/ would be comparable to MN HS in terms of local quality hockey for little to no money?

No, and it is a cultural thing. Like football in Texas. Minnesota is really the only place where the tie between town/youth and high school hockey remain linked, and an extremely tight bond with the community itself is formed. It is almost blasphemous to not want to play for your local high school team.

 

[taz91]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

The sad part is, we still get many kids that jump ship from their community program to play for the big hockey school. I won't lump the private schools into the argument because that is a totally different animal. I guess I just don't understand why you'd want to go from the big fish at a lesser school to a potential second or third line skater at a power house. If you have the talent to play at the next level, the NCAA coaches will find you. I would love to see how much some parents will pay to make "Johnny" or "Sally" a superstar player only to have them quit the game because they get pushed to hard. The part that pains me more than kids not playing for their community is the number of kids "forced" to play hockey year round at a young age. I don't know how many squirt and pee-wee players I've talked to that don't play any other sports because mom and dad have them skating 6 nights a week at shooting camps, skating camps, elite league and a regular spring or fall league. Maybe some parents can take what Jack has said and put it to use.

 

[canadahockey26]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

Some kids are the ones pushing their parents for the extra ice time.

Anyways...being from Canada we never played any teams from Minnesota. We played teams from NY, PA, WI, CA, MI, and many other states since the Atom years. Just curious as to where the girls play before high school? I find it odd that even in the Atom-Peewee-Bantam years, before high school hockey, we never saw any girls teams from Minnesota.

 

[Hux]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

The sad part is, we still get many kids that jump ship from their community program to play for the big hockey school. I won't lump the private schools into the argument because that is a totally different animal. I guess I just don't understand why you'd want to go from the big fish at a lesser school to a potential second or third line skater at a power house.

Because being the big fish can be detrimental. Some programs have enough depth that the big fish is supported by a number of smaller fish (or big fish in the making) and can shine while playing a team game. Others don't and the big fish is the really big fish and is looked upon to carry the team (often the coach's choice). End result is a player that puts up killer stats, but really doesn't fully understand the game because she has only ever had one role. Carry the puck, shoot the puck, and score. So she goes on to the next level, and instantly finds herself not only the little fish in a big pond, but a fish out of water. Assuming a humble player (and a patient coach), she, in most cases, will put together all the pieces of the puzzle and become and integral part of the team, and maybe even an impact player.

Now if that same player sees the handwriting on the wall (remember she is humble) she opts to go to a "big hockey school" and becomes a second or a third liner. Of course, at the big hockey schools the second and third lines are really 1A and 1B. The players operate in hyperdrive because they know they are either a wee bit faster or a wee bit slower than the others and one off shift lands you in deep guano. It is overspeed training at its best. The end result is increased development at warp speed. Not just skating and skills, but game sense. And learning to play a team game. To have a role, or multiple roles, and to be able to flourish even without racking up all-world stats.

If you have the talent to play at the next level, the NCAA coaches will find you.

True to an extent. However, if you pile up all-state stats in a league/section/division that lacks competitive depth a college coach is going to have a big question mark next to your name. Even if you have shown you can compete with the other big fish from your area, the coach may well wonder if the player's game will continue to improve or plateau? Will she be driven to improve or will she coast?

Even if she is driven, given the lack of competition how hard will she really have to push? If she is the really big fish, how will she deal with being the small fish at the next level? How will her parents deal? Will Janey and Family be at the office door wondering why she isn't on the top line, the PP, the PK, not to mention the ice in the first place?

 

[joehockey]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

Some kids are the ones pushing their parents for the extra ice time.

Anyways...being from Canada we never played any teams from Minnesota. We played teams from NY, PA, WI, CA, MI, and many other states since the Atom years. Just curious as to where the girls play before high school? I find it odd that even in the Atom-Peewee-Bantam years, before high school hockey, we never saw any girls teams from Minnesota.

Minnesota Hockey does not let Minnesota Teams travel and play outside of Minnesota with a special waiver. Even to play Wisconsin border Teams Minnesota has to approve. If Teams from outside of MN want to come here and play they have to permission to play in the tournament.

In the past some MN girls would roster/play on "before and after" rosters to be able to play in National Play - a few would end up in Madison or on Milwaukee Teams. This probably was not legal in MN but Wisconsin allowed.

Now MN has almost year round hockey with summer AAA Teams at all ages.

 

[giwan]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

Now MN has almost year round hockey with summer AAA Teams at all ages.

Not just MN having hockey year round but they also have had AAA summer teams for quite some time. ie the Easton Cup is in it's 10th year and the All American tournament is in its 19th yr.

On a very regular basis during the summer I see teams from Saskatchewan, Ottawa, Vancouver, Winnipeg and Thunder Bay.

 

[SlewFoot]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

Minnesota Hockey does not let Minnesota Teams travel and play outside of Minnesota with a special waiver. Even to play Wisconsin border Teams Minnesota has to approve. If Teams from outside of MN want to come here and play they have to permission to play in the tournament.

First as a caution, I am writing this from memory of my interpretation of the rules a number of years ago. Please feel free to correct me if I am wrong or if things have changed in the last 4-5 years.

Also, to the "outsiders" it should be understood that Minnesota High School Hockey is not USA/Minnesota Hockey sanctioned. In general, USA Sanctioned teams, if my recollection is correct, must play other USA sanctioned teams (Canadian teams meet the USA sanction requirements) however there are a limited number of non-sanctioned games that sanctioned teams can play. Under the USA Hockey umbrella there is Minnesota Hockey, which is community based hockey or "Tier II" and all of the rest of youth Hockey or "Tier I". Tier I and Tier II isn't a quality differentiation. Tier II is only a different system of rules that relate to community based hockey in Minnesota. Tier II rules won't work for other states because there aren't enough hockey players for the community system to work.

My comments below are in regards USA Hockey and youth hockey and not Minnesoat High School hockey.

I am not aware of any prohibition of Minnesota youth teams from traveling outside of Minnesota. I have been told that the reason that Minnesota teams don't travel outside of Minnesota during the season is that Minnesota youth teams use a fiscal year of July 1- June 30 for their age groups. Other USA Hockey teams (Tier I) use a calendar year. For example, a Minnesota 12U player can be as much as 6-months older than a Tier I team that uses the calendar year for 12U. Minnesota teams traveling outside the State of Minnesota might have players that are not age eligible to play the host USA sanctioned team. I've been told that many years ago Minnesota used calendar year ages too and therefore some Minnesota teams (on the boys side) participated in National Tournaments. As far as Tier I teams coming to Minnesota, there is no waiver required. It happens all of the time since the visitors will the age requirements of Minnesota hockey (USA sanctioned Hockey teams and Canadian teams are eligible under USA/MN hockey rules). Many Canadian and teams from other States do in fact play in community tournaments and places such as the tournament at Blaine in fall.

In the past some MN girls would roster/play on "before and after" rosters to be able to play in National Play - a few would end up in Madison or on Milwaukee Teams. This probably was not legal in MN but Wisconsin allowed.

Before and after rosters are USA/Minnesota Hockey sanctioned teams that are specially sanctioned to play other USA sanctioned teams. They are "before and after" because it is before and after the Minnesota Youth Hockey season. Generally these are short term permissions for teams to be sanctioned as a Tier I Hockey team. Under Tier I sanctioning rules, USA/Minnesota hockey allows players from many different communities in Minnesota can play together as a USA sanctioned team to play other USA sanctioned teams. In general, Minnesota hockey requires players playing in Minnesota youth to play for their community under the Tier II rules. Minnesota kids can play on Tier I hockey teams outside of Minnesota. I am aware of Wisconsin Tier I teams that have Minnesota residents playing on their teams. However if a Minnesota resident plays on another USA Hockey team he or she cannot play on their Minnesota community team at the same time. USA Hockey generally doesn't allow a USA player to play on two USA sanctioned teams at the same time. I am personally aware of Minnesota boys hockey players that played on Tier I teams that were sanctioned in Wisconsin (typically they had one or two Wisconsin kids). This was done so that Minnesota kids could play on an "elite" team from many communities rather than play for their home community. These teams freely played in Minnesota community tournaments if the community tournaments invited them.

Now MN has almost year round hockey with summer AAA Teams at all ages.

There is no such thing as a formal AAA team in Minnesota. Its just what non-sanctioned teams call themselves to play in the summer. USA sanctioned teams can't play these AAA teams but these teams are formed to play in non-sanctioned tournaments in the summer. I might be dating myself on some of this stuff because things might have changed because I know a number of years ago USA/Minnesota hockey were talking about getting into summer hockey.

 

[ARM]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

Now if that same player sees the handwriting on the wall (remember she is humble) she opts to go to a "big hockey school" and becomes a second or a third liner. Of course, at the big hockey schools the second and third lines are really 1A and 1B. The players operate in hyperdrive because they know they are either a wee bit faster or a wee bit slower than the others and one off shift lands you in deep guano. It is overspeed training at its best. The end result is increased development at warp speed. Not just skating and skills, but game sense. And learning to play a team game. To have a role, or multiple roles, and to be able to flourish even without racking up all-world stats.

There are far more variables than that at play. First, you're looking at hockey only, and that's a small piece of the pie. If you're talking about a player that winds up on the second or third line after transferring, then it is doubtful that she's going to be playing D-I in the end. She could have a home-town high-school that is a mile away versus moving to one that is 10 to 15 miles away. If a kid is contemplating leaving and likely alienating friends that she's known through her school years and go off to chase better teammates, I hope that she is objective enough about her own abilities that she isn't compromising some of the best years of her life to do so. After the switch, there isn't any guarantee that new coach is better than old coach, so even in your big fish scenario, development may not improve. Much of the improvement in Minnesota HS hockey over the last 15 years has been among the "little fish". There were about as many elite players a decade ago, but nowhere near as many third-line players that can play as one sees today.

Personally, I believe that all things considered, staying with the hometown team will work out better more often, but human nature being what it is, most will believe that greener grass and faster ice can be found elsewhere.

 

[Hux]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

There are far more variables than that at play. First, you're looking at hockey only, and that's a small piece of the pie. If you're talking about a player that winds up on the second or third line after transferring, then it is doubtful that she's going to be playing D-I in the end. She could have a home-town high-school that is a mile away versus moving to one that is 10 to 15 miles away. If a kid is contemplating leaving and likely alienating friends that she's known through her school years and go off to chase better teammates, I hope that she is objective enough about her own abilities that she isn't compromising some of the best years of her life to do so. After the switch, there isn't any guarantee that new coach is better than old coach, so even in your big fish scenario, development may not improve. Much of the improvement in Minnesota HS hockey over the last 15 years has been among the "little fish". There were about as many elite players a decade ago, but nowhere near as many third-line players that can play as one sees today.

Personally, I believe that all things considered, staying with the hometown team will work out better more often, but human nature being what it is, most will believe that greener grass and faster ice can be found elsewhere.

Ah, hmmmm, I wasn't looking at it from the transfer from one high school to another within Minny. I was looking at it from a standpoint of going from a weaker high school program to SSM, or JWHL teams like NAHA, NSA, etc. I thought that was the intent of the poster I quoted, though upon further review I see that he was thinking along your lines.

I agree with you and Taz on that point, i.e. going to an Eagan, Roseville, etc. rather than staying put. (The reason the transfer rule was put in a few years back)

 

[brookyone]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

For some, a jump from one MSHSL team to another a greatly increased chance for a state tournament berth is the incentive. A major goal for just about all who play high school hockey in MN. The above average players are no exception...I don't believe. In addition to any college hockey aspirations they surely have.

Edit: This is the philosophy, or practice that Jack is addressing to some extent with his letter I think. Not from an overly supportive point of view as I interpret it.

 

[CrossCheck]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

MN is probably the only state with enough girls playing hockey to actually have "local" teams...I would equate MN more to Canaduh in that respect.

For the rest of us, you need to find a team for your kid...wherever that might be...and the closer the better in my view. As for the "Super Teams" [Assabet, NAHA, Team Pitt, etc] which are a collection of players from far and wide....and the nutjob parents and coaches who create these monsters....they are almost universally bad for the sport on multiple levels.

 

[Hockeydad4two]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

...snip...
As for the "Super Teams" [Assabet, NAHA, Team Pitt, etc] which are a collection of players from far and wide....and the nutjob parents and coaches who create these monsters....they are almost universally bad for the sport on multiple levels.

As a parent that had to go that route, I'm curious as to what is "bad" about that? We had no option but to drive 90 miles one way for each practice. There were girls coming from even further.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

There's a fine line between striving for excellence and winning at all costs. I read CrossCheck as saying that when parents shun relatively convenient options for a burdensome one, there's an enhanced risk of the latter. While I'd reject the phrase "universally bad" for the super teams, there's something to that thought.

At the same time, I can understand Hockeydad4two's objection. Since 90 miles away is, in fact, the closest team, what is his family supposed to do? Drive even further in search of a less competitive option? Make that demand and there's a risk his kids would drop our sport instead. Now there's an outcome I might agree was universally bad.

 

[WCHFan]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

As a parent that had to go that route, I'm curious as to what is "bad" about that? We had no option but to drive 90 miles one way for each practice. There were girls coming from even further.

There's nothing wrong with putting these type of teams together. From Minnesota and I'm not much of a fan of HS or hometown teams other than local friends play together. My daughter played AAA in the summer and if I/she had to choose it would have been summer. 10 times better hockey. In my opinion most Minnesota girls would not play D1 hockey without the high level of summer AAA teams. Hat's off to the girls and parents who travel for the chance to play a great game. Very dedicated to the sport.

Would much rather watch summer AAA hockey than Minnesota High school hockey. No comparison.

 

[pgb-ohio]

Re: Minnesota Hockey Approach & Perspective

There are two sides to this, and describing either side as "wrong" or "bad" is counterproductive. Sounds like WCHFan's daughter was a perfect fit for AAA, and that's great. Finding the option(s) that best fit your child is hugely important. At the same time, let me gently suggest that what parents "would much rather watch" should be close to irrelevant. Granted it sounds like a broken record, but youth sports at all levels need to be about the players, not the parents.

Not to put words into Cross Check's mouth, but I'm guessing that a core concern is that "super teams" can tempt parents to become "super fans." Obviously one innocent remark doesn't put WCHFan in the negative category. I'm also confident that Hockeydad4two strikes the right balance, and that his family's story is one of dedication, nothing more. But big picture, this is a legitimate issue. Putting together a super team isn't wrong, but that doesn't mean there aren't pitfalls to be avoided.

The distance issue is a case point. Think about what living 90 miles from home ice means in practical terms. Assuming an average traffic pattern, that's a three hour round trip for every single practice and home game. Unless a parent consciously guards against it, it's easy to see how one could become over-invested in the team's on-ice fortunes. It's an awful lot of eggs to put in one basket.