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Making a Murderer updates
- Thread starter solovsfett
- Start date
solovsfett
Registered User
solovsfett
Registered User
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Making a Murderer updates
Josh Kaul in, Kathleen Zellner is celebrating, justice MAY arrive in Wisconsin at long last.
Message to Colburn, Lenk, Fassbender, Wiegert, Sturme, Hillegas, Tadych and Bobby D: “one, two, Zellner’s coming for you!”
Josh Kaul in, Kathleen Zellner is celebrating, justice MAY arrive in Wisconsin at long last.
Message to Colburn, Lenk, Fassbender, Wiegert, Sturme, Hillegas, Tadych and Bobby D: “one, two, Zellner’s coming for you!”
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Making a Murderer updates
Zellner feels an evidentiary hearing may come by end of 2019,...
https://t.co/yfNrdhUXr6?amp=1
I post about this often because I can’t imagine doing one day, much less 32 years of time (combining both of Avery’s stints) for a crime you didn’t commit.
Manitowoc, Calumet, Kratz and DOJ are pretty easily explained. No-one wants to pay massive civil judgments nor admit corruption and put 6 cops and a DA in prison.
But the Halbach family’s resistance to what they must now know is the truth is really beyond exasperating.
Zellner feels an evidentiary hearing may come by end of 2019,...
https://t.co/yfNrdhUXr6?amp=1
I post about this often because I can’t imagine doing one day, much less 32 years of time (combining both of Avery’s stints) for a crime you didn’t commit.
Manitowoc, Calumet, Kratz and DOJ are pretty easily explained. No-one wants to pay massive civil judgments nor admit corruption and put 6 cops and a DA in prison.
But the Halbach family’s resistance to what they must now know is the truth is really beyond exasperating.
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Making a Murderer updates
https://t.co/OIQfgokwag?amp=1
I’m getting hopeful Kratz, Schimel et al will be destroyed by their corruption.
https://t.co/OIQfgokwag?amp=1
I’m getting hopeful Kratz, Schimel et al will be destroyed by their corruption.
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Making a Murderer updates
https://twitter.com/TManitowoc/status/1061437652547731456?s=20
Maybe this goes deeper than Zellner thinks or knows. Was a DOJ agent on Avery property 9 months before the disappearance?
If yes, we should know what she was doing there. If DOJ leaned on MCSD to get Avery that’s next level Kafka.
https://twitter.com/TManitowoc/status/1061437652547731456?s=20
Maybe this goes deeper than Zellner thinks or knows. Was a DOJ agent on Avery property 9 months before the disappearance?
If yes, we should know what she was doing there. If DOJ leaned on MCSD to get Avery that’s next level Kafka.
Re: Making a Murderer updates
I was interested to read your Newsweek link because it answered one question that came to my mind as I was watching, and that was what kind of money has Zellner put into this case. If you elect to hire the top expert in every single field, you're going to spend some coin, and she has obviously done that. Unanswered, even by the Newsweek article, is what kind of deal does Zellner have with Avery? Does she have his claim against Wisconsin once she gets him out? Is that how she funds these wrongful conviction cases and the time and money she puts into them?
She is interesting to watch work, but more interesting is the work of the experts she's hired. It seems obvious to me (and I think she'd admit this) that her success in these cases basically comes from a willingness to fund a bunch of experts who actually know what they are doing to look at the evidence.
I'll admit I was a bit alarmed by her early work with the blood spatter guy. For instance, when they were talking about the likelihood of Avery's bloody finger leaving a smear near the ignition, Zellner pointed out or argued that if that happened, he would have certainly had to have left smears elsewhere, such as the door latch for the driver's door of the Rav. On that point I think she is almost certainly wrong. The cut was on Avery's right hand, and unless you have something in your left hand, I don't think anyone would open the driver's side door with their right hand, just like I don't think you'd open the the passenger side door with your left hand. It's just too unnatural.
Similarly, during that same episode as they discussed the blood spatter on the rear inside panel of the Rav. Once they were able to recreate the spatter pattern by using the hammer covered in blood and waving it in the direction of the door, Zellner expressed the opinion that they now know what happened and how Halbach was killed (basically hit with a hammer like object immediately behind the Rav). I don't think that's necessarily true. Just because you find a way to recreate the splatter pattern doesn't mean that you found the way it was created.
But I think she's rebounded nicely, and the evidence her experts have come up with regarding things like the bullet has certainly been compelling.
My only other criticism of her would be her promises to the Avery family, especially his parents. She certainly doesn't lack for confidence, but I don't know that it's a great idea to basically promise them that Steven Avery will be released from prison and coming home to them. As we saw with Dassey, creating false hope is almost harder on a family than having little or no hope at all. Avery probably didn't commit this murder, or at least certainly as the State claims, but I wouldn't go so far as Zellner as to say that I'm willing to "bet my life" that Avery gets out. There are a lot of innocent people in prison.
I'm going to try to finish up the series tonight.
Due to other series we started watching, and wanted to finish, I've been slow to get started on Season 2 of Making a Murderer. Finally this past weekend I got a few episodes watched.
I was interested to read your Newsweek link because it answered one question that came to my mind as I was watching, and that was what kind of money has Zellner put into this case. If you elect to hire the top expert in every single field, you're going to spend some coin, and she has obviously done that. Unanswered, even by the Newsweek article, is what kind of deal does Zellner have with Avery? Does she have his claim against Wisconsin once she gets him out? Is that how she funds these wrongful conviction cases and the time and money she puts into them?
She is interesting to watch work, but more interesting is the work of the experts she's hired. It seems obvious to me (and I think she'd admit this) that her success in these cases basically comes from a willingness to fund a bunch of experts who actually know what they are doing to look at the evidence.
I'll admit I was a bit alarmed by her early work with the blood spatter guy. For instance, when they were talking about the likelihood of Avery's bloody finger leaving a smear near the ignition, Zellner pointed out or argued that if that happened, he would have certainly had to have left smears elsewhere, such as the door latch for the driver's door of the Rav. On that point I think she is almost certainly wrong. The cut was on Avery's right hand, and unless you have something in your left hand, I don't think anyone would open the driver's side door with their right hand, just like I don't think you'd open the the passenger side door with your left hand. It's just too unnatural.
Similarly, during that same episode as they discussed the blood spatter on the rear inside panel of the Rav. Once they were able to recreate the spatter pattern by using the hammer covered in blood and waving it in the direction of the door, Zellner expressed the opinion that they now know what happened and how Halbach was killed (basically hit with a hammer like object immediately behind the Rav). I don't think that's necessarily true. Just because you find a way to recreate the splatter pattern doesn't mean that you found the way it was created.
But I think she's rebounded nicely, and the evidence her experts have come up with regarding things like the bullet has certainly been compelling.
My only other criticism of her would be her promises to the Avery family, especially his parents. She certainly doesn't lack for confidence, but I don't know that it's a great idea to basically promise them that Steven Avery will be released from prison and coming home to them. As we saw with Dassey, creating false hope is almost harder on a family than having little or no hope at all. Avery probably didn't commit this murder, or at least certainly as the State claims, but I wouldn't go so far as Zellner as to say that I'm willing to "bet my life" that Avery gets out. There are a lot of innocent people in prison.
I'm going to try to finish up the series tonight.
Re: Making a Murderer updates
This is one of the things that has bothered me about this series.
In my opinion, the series itself has probably made it significantly harder to get Dassey and Avery out of prison. If this case had just remained another prosecution in Wisconsin like Avery's first case, my guess is that people who have come into office later and replaced people like Kratz would be working with Zellner just like other prosecutors around the country.
The problem is the series. When you start publicly charging people like the prosecutors and cops with planting evidence and corruption, then spread that message worldwide so that people in New Zealand and India and everywhere else are sending you messages telling you what scum you are, people dig in their heals. For people like Kratz, the cops, the Wisconsin DOJ, etc..., this is not about whether Avery is guilty. This case is now about whether they are corrupt, and they aren't going to concede that point ever. The only way to not concede that point is to fight to the death to keep Avery and Dassey in prison. So long as they are in prison, Kratz and the cops believe their reputations are intact.
This is one of the things that has bothered me about this series.
In my opinion, the series itself has probably made it significantly harder to get Dassey and Avery out of prison. If this case had just remained another prosecution in Wisconsin like Avery's first case, my guess is that people who have come into office later and replaced people like Kratz would be working with Zellner just like other prosecutors around the country.
The problem is the series. When you start publicly charging people like the prosecutors and cops with planting evidence and corruption, then spread that message worldwide so that people in New Zealand and India and everywhere else are sending you messages telling you what scum you are, people dig in their heals. For people like Kratz, the cops, the Wisconsin DOJ, etc..., this is not about whether Avery is guilty. This case is now about whether they are corrupt, and they aren't going to concede that point ever. The only way to not concede that point is to fight to the death to keep Avery and Dassey in prison. So long as they are in prison, Kratz and the cops believe their reputations are intact.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Making a Murderer updates
In some ways it seems like the best option is a pardon, but that seems unlikely from Walker even though he's currently a lame duck.
In some ways it seems like the best option is a pardon, but that seems unlikely from Walker even though he's currently a lame duck.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Making a Murderer updates
No governor would do that...half the state would burn you in effigy.
And I am of two minds about whether the series helps or hurts. The truth is if it wasnt for the series he doesnt have any real shot anyways because no way someone like Zellner takes up the case. He would be rotting for good with second rate representation filing motions that go nowhere. On the other hand this has so much notoriety that until there is new judges and so on no one will want to admit they were this badly wrong. (if indeed they are) It is a double edged sword.
That said having it in the public consciousness is important, and sooner or later it tends to help in these types of cases. The West Memphis Three never get their Alford Pleas if not for the HBO Documentaries about their BS convictions. Same with Michael Peterson. For as much as it works against them in the short term in the long term it tends to help more.
No governor would do that...half the state would burn you in effigy.
And I am of two minds about whether the series helps or hurts. The truth is if it wasnt for the series he doesnt have any real shot anyways because no way someone like Zellner takes up the case. He would be rotting for good with second rate representation filing motions that go nowhere. On the other hand this has so much notoriety that until there is new judges and so on no one will want to admit they were this badly wrong. (if indeed they are) It is a double edged sword.
That said having it in the public consciousness is important, and sooner or later it tends to help in these types of cases. The West Memphis Three never get their Alford Pleas if not for the HBO Documentaries about their BS convictions. Same with Michael Peterson. For as much as it works against them in the short term in the long term it tends to help more.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Making a Murderer updates
In a lame duck situation? That’s exactly when the majority of pardons happen.
Handyman
Hug someone you care about...
Re: Making a Murderer updates
Not on something like this. This isnt some 65 year old serving 20 years on drug charges this is a murder where the accused have plenty of life in front of them. Not to mention one of the accused has already threatened to sue the state for millions for a different wrongful conviction (and is openly saying he was framed again by the cops and the DA) and the other is a kid who confessed. (not arguing whether that should count, but as of now it doesnt) You dont pardon in that scenario even if you are a lame duck.
Not on something like this. This isnt some 65 year old serving 20 years on drug charges this is a murder where the accused have plenty of life in front of them. Not to mention one of the accused has already threatened to sue the state for millions for a different wrongful conviction (and is openly saying he was framed again by the cops and the DA) and the other is a kid who confessed. (not arguing whether that should count, but as of now it doesnt) You dont pardon in that scenario even if you are a lame duck.
Re: Making a Murderer updates
No question the public consciousness helps. I thought it was telling that Zellner had been approached multiple times about the case prior to the series, but only became interested after the series was aired and became a hit.
But the West Memphis 3 case illustrates some of the problems that Avery/Dassey are going to have.
First, as I recall the families of the victims in the WM3 case came around to the idea that the prosecution was wrong. Thus far I don't think that's happened in Wisconsin.
Second, I believe the WM3 had to specifically release their claims against the state of Arkansas and the police/prosecutors, etc..., as part of the deal struck. If Zellner has spent nearly $1 million out of her own pocket thus far, as the Newsweek article suggests, no way she lets that deal be cut.
Which then creates an interesting conflict of interest for her.
If I were the State of Wisconsin, I'd put the screws to her on that conflict right now. Offer Avery and Dassey a deal. Alford pleas with time served, immediate release from prison, and a complete release of all claims against the authorities. But Dassey can only take it if Avery does.
Let's see whether Zellner is really in it to free innocent people, or is she in it for the coin.
No question the public consciousness helps. I thought it was telling that Zellner had been approached multiple times about the case prior to the series, but only became interested after the series was aired and became a hit.
But the West Memphis 3 case illustrates some of the problems that Avery/Dassey are going to have.
First, as I recall the families of the victims in the WM3 case came around to the idea that the prosecution was wrong. Thus far I don't think that's happened in Wisconsin.
Second, I believe the WM3 had to specifically release their claims against the state of Arkansas and the police/prosecutors, etc..., as part of the deal struck. If Zellner has spent nearly $1 million out of her own pocket thus far, as the Newsweek article suggests, no way she lets that deal be cut.
Which then creates an interesting conflict of interest for her.
If I were the State of Wisconsin, I'd put the screws to her on that conflict right now. Offer Avery and Dassey a deal. Alford pleas with time served, immediate release from prison, and a complete release of all claims against the authorities. But Dassey can only take it if Avery does.
Let's see whether Zellner is really in it to free innocent people, or is she in it for the coin.
solovsfett
Registered User
Unfortunately Walker eliminated the pardons board. I’ll look for his quote about it.
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Making a Murderer updates
https://www.wpr.org/walker-administration-proposes-eliminating-governors-pardon-advisory-board
https://www.wpr.org/walker-administration-proposes-eliminating-governors-pardon-advisory-board
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Making a Murderer updates
Zellner announcement tomorrow at 12:30pm.
If this is a presser i’d suspect someone has come forward to cooperate.
Zellner announcement tomorrow at 12:30pm.
If this is a presser i’d suspect someone has come forward to cooperate.
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Making a Murderer updates
Not a presser I guess it’s an update and live chat on twitter...
Michele Malkin has weighed in: https://t.co/ijwhJcVwte?amp=1
Not a presser I guess it’s an update and live chat on twitter...
Michele Malkin has weighed in: https://t.co/ijwhJcVwte?amp=1