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Making a Murderer updates

Re: Making a Murderer updates

Wasn’t that discussed in the recent series? Her ex had means to get the key I thought
 
Re: Making a Murderer updates

Deutsche Gopher Fan said:
Wasn’t that discussed in the recent series? Her ex had means to get the key I thought
Click to expand...

Sure, but that's what I was alluding to in my posts yesterday. Once you start expanding the participants in the conspiracy, how do you even get it to work.

So, someone, not Avery, kills Halbach. The ex gets the key (how, I don't recall), then gets it to the police so they can frame Avery? Why would the ex do that, unless he was the killer? The police then get some blood on it (again, not sure how) and plant the key? And if the ex is the killer, then when and how did he do all of the moving of the bones onto the Avery property, and the Rav onto the Avery property. I though Tadych was the killer, with Bobby Dassey, because of all the bad porn on his computer and because they supposedly lied about each other's alibis?
 
Re: Making a Murderer updates

I'm gonna go out on a limb and say whoever killed her probably had the ability to get the key of the car she was driving when she was killed, use that key in the car, and put both the car and key wherever they pleased. No need to over think it.
 
Re: Making a Murderer updates

trixR4kids said:
Was Avery's blood on the key?
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I'm not sure if it was blood, or if was just DNA. Also, iirc, Zellner initially claimed that the police planted the DNA on the key, but I think she's backtracked from that and claims that it's the ex who did it. But that raises a whole lot of other questions about where he came up with the DNA, and why he'd do it.
 
Re: Making a Murderer updates

jerphisch said:
I'm gonna go out on a limb and say whoever killed her probably had the ability to get the key of the car she was driving when she was killed, use that key in the car, and put both the car and key wherever they pleased. No need to over think it.
Click to expand...

Exactly. So, are we claiming the cops killed her and took the key, because that's been the original claim all along that the cops planted the key.

Or are we claiming the ex killed her and took the key. If so, when and where did he get Avery's DNA to plant on the key and in the car, and how did he get the key into Avery's house?
 
Re: Making a Murderer updates

SJHovey said:
Exactly. So, are we claiming the cops killed her and took the key, because that's been the original claim all along that the cops planted the key.

Or are we claiming the ex killed her and took the key. If so, when and where did he get Avery's DNA to plant on the key and in the car, and how did he get the key into Avery's house?
Click to expand...

I'm asking this in all seriousness, have you watched season 2? It addresses a lot of these details. Not the how did it get there part, but the DNA on the key and many other questions you have are addressed in detail.
 
Re: Making a Murderer updates

SJHovey said:
I’ve watched it.
Click to expand...

So how does the key contain absolutely no DNA besides Avery's? Criminal mastermind Stephen Avery wipes it down so it's clean (after parking the car that has his blood all over it on his own property), then proceeds to carefully place it with his bare hands on his bedroom floor?
 
Re: Making a Murderer updates

Let's check in with Dassey's lawyer.

A court clerk accused Kachinsky of harassing her beginning in 2017, saying he had sent her inappropriate personal emails, posted personal information about her, and allegedly done a variety of other weird and creepy things. These included filing a reprimand against her for “refusing to acknowledge or return Christmas greetings from him,” mentioning that he had noticed her mother’s location on a Facebook feature called “Nearby Friends,” and sitting next to her desk “for almost 40 minutes tapping a pen on a legal pad in his lap, staring at her and making ‘cat noises’ until she was so uncomfortable that she left.”
Click to expand...
 
Re: Making a Murderer updates

jerphisch said:
So how does the key contain absolutely no DNA besides Avery's? Criminal mastermind Stephen Avery wipes it down so it's clean (after parking the car that has his blood all over it on his own property), then proceeds to carefully place it with his bare hands on his bedroom floor?
Click to expand...

I don't know. Those questions have been asked, and I don't know that anyone has the answer.

I don't think anyone has suggested that he "placed" it on the floor, but it certainly ended up there.

But I start with the admonition that you or someone else gave -- don't over think this.

The key is in his home, with his DNA on it. On top of that there are the other connections to Avery and his property involving Halbach (she was last seen there, bones there, car there).

If I'm a juror, I'm willing to listen to your arguments about no other DNA on the key. I'm willing to even listen to your arguments that it was planted.

What I'm not willing to accept is your argument that because there is no other DNA on the key, and because it wasn't found until a few days later, it must have been planted. The first two do not require acceptance of the third.

If you want to argue that it was planted, then give me the plausible story about who, when and how it was done. How did they get the key from the dead girls car, and when? How did they get Avery's DNA on it, and when? How did they get it planted, and when?

With respect to the conspiracy theories regarding the planting of the evidence, we've concentrated so much on the motive of the police and really nothing on how or when they might have done it. I think that's why you've seen Zellner's theories about who is trying to frame Avery shift around over time. Yeah, there may be evidence that the ex was involved, but how do we fit him into all of the other evidence like the DNA on the car and the key and the items at Avery's property? Yeah, there is evidence that the police work is questionable, but how do we get the key with the DNA on it to the police, and when, without pointing the fingers at the cops as Halbach's killer?
 
SJHovey said:
I don't know. Those questions have been asked, and I don't know that anyone has the answer.

I don't think anyone has suggested that he "placed" it on the floor, but it certainly ended up there.

But I start with the admonition that you or someone else gave -- don't over think this.

The key is in his home, with his DNA on it. On top of that there are the other connections to Avery and his property involving Halbach (she was last seen there, bones there, car there).

If I'm a juror, I'm willing to listen to your arguments about no other DNA on the key. I'm willing to even listen to your arguments that it was planted.

What I'm not willing to accept is your argument that because there is no other DNA on the key, and because it wasn't found until a few days later, it must have been planted. The first two do not require acceptance of the third.

If you want to argue that it was planted, then give me the plausible story about who, when and how it was done. How did they get the key from the dead girls car, and when? How did they get Avery's DNA on it, and when? How did they get it planted, and when?

With respect to the conspiracy theories regarding the planting of the evidence, we've concentrated so much on the motive of the police and really nothing on how or when they might have done it. I think that's why you've seen Zellner's theories about who is trying to frame Avery shift around over time. Yeah, there may be evidence that the ex was involved, but how do we fit him into all of the other evidence like the DNA on the car and the key and the items at Avery's property? Yeah, there is evidence that the police work is questionable, but how do we get the key with the DNA on it to the police, and when, without pointing the fingers at the cops as Halbach's killer?
Click to expand...

The rav4 key is clearly seen n halbach’s apartment on the kitchen counter in a photograph where you see her roommate answering questions. The key must have been given by Hillegas to Pagel, Colburn or another cop. How else does it wind up at avery’s And why did Hillegas have 21 phone calls with LE on 10-31, a day on which presumably only the killer knows she’s dead?

If you read through the court records and review the pictures that tick tockmanitowoc has posted on twitter (and is passing info to Zellner) you would know that both Ryan Hillegas and Bobby Dassey have a special relationship with certain former and current sheriff deputies. It becomes clear that regardless of Hillegas or Bobby or Scott killing her the cops were close to Bobby and Ryan and tgat’s how the pieces are falling. Lenk or Colburn planted the key. Calumet didn’t find it.

On top of everything else shown by mam 1 and 2 we now know at least one cop has told Zellner Avery is innocent.

Now we have her filing on dec 20th and that should include the results of luminol tests on Bobby Dassey’s garage.

For the cops this was two things: 1 opportunity to frame Avery a man they hated going back to his game of chicken with a deputy in the early 80’s. 2 get rid of the $36m lawsuit.

In this scenario I don’t know Hillegas’ motivation to cooperate...yet...Bobby is easy. Scott Tadych as well. The guy got a new house shortly after this. That’s a public record.
 
Re: Making a Murderer updates

Another unanswered question.

Where is her key chain with the keys she used for her rav and apartment? The one found is a spare.

Also, who changed the battery on the rav to get it moved from in front of tadych’s old house to the Avery property? Where is the receipt for that transaction?
 
Re: Making a Murderer updates

SJHovey said:
I don't know. Those questions have been asked, and I don't know that anyone has the answer.

I don't think anyone has suggested that he "placed" it on the floor, but it certainly ended up there.

But I start with the admonition that you or someone else gave -- don't over think this.

The key is in his home, with his DNA on it. On top of that there are the other connections to Avery and his property involving Halbach (she was last seen there, bones there, car there).

If I'm a juror, I'm willing to listen to your arguments about no other DNA on the key. I'm willing to even listen to your arguments that it was planted.

What I'm not willing to accept is your argument that because there is no other DNA on the key, and because it wasn't found until a few days later, it must have been planted. The first two do not require acceptance of the third.

If you want to argue that it was planted, then give me the plausible story about who, when and how it was done. How did they get the key from the dead girls car, and when? How did they get Avery's DNA on it, and when? How did they get it planted, and when?

With respect to the conspiracy theories regarding the planting of the evidence, we've concentrated so much on the motive of the police and really nothing on how or when they might have done it. I think that's why you've seen Zellner's theories about who is trying to frame Avery shift around over time. Yeah, there may be evidence that the ex was involved, but how do we fit him into all of the other evidence like the DNA on the car and the key and the items at Avery's property? Yeah, there is evidence that the police work is questionable, but how do we get the key with the DNA on it to the police, and when, without pointing the fingers at the cops as Halbach's killer?
Click to expand...

If I was a juror I would say it "must have been planted" but I would say "it might have been" and once I accept that fact then things tend to go downhill fast.

That is the thing I dont get...there is enough reasonable doubt to drive a semi truck through sideways even before Zellner was involved. Avery's attorney's should have been able to destroy this case easily. I get the judge kind of hamstrung them but still.
 
SJHovey said:
I'm not sure if it was blood, or if was just DNA. Also, iirc, Zellner initially claimed that the police planted the DNA on the key, but I think she's backtracked from that and claims that it's the ex who did it. But that raises a whole lot of other questions about where he came up with the DNA, and why he'd do it.
Click to expand...
Did the documentary go into the details of the DNA analysis? I mostly ask because DNA isn’t always the smoking gun people believe it is especially if the people handling it can be called into question in any way (I haven’t watched the first MaM in a long time but I thought I remember this coming into question). They wouldn’t necessarily even have to plant his DNA on objects in that case.
 
Re: Making a Murderer updates

I just hung out with a friend from high school yesterday and MaM came up...I pointed out that we went to school with Kachinsky's daughter and he was shocked...
 
Re: Making a Murderer updates

It doesnt blame him...his crappy work as a cop just makes it a definite possibility he did it ;)
 
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