Maine

[Ma#1ne Hky]

Re: Maine

Pretty much knew that this team was Swayman and a prayer, he can only do so much...he can't be asked to score...no offence, lack a sniper or two, and that comes down and bites you when your playing the top teams in Hockey East. I feared that at the beginning...and now we see it. And now we are seeing the discipline fade away also...a trait of all Gendron teams. What is worst is without Swayman (? signing w/Boston?) next season. This could be even worst to look forward to.

 

[walrus]

Re: Maine

This could be even worst to look forward to.

Not making the NCAAs or not making the NCAAs, either way sucks Looks like my LSSU anchor is still in play and the longer this goes on the less likely its ever going to change no matter who the coach is. Chances of catching lightning in a bottle twice are slim, very slim.

 

[Drew S.]

Not making the NCAAs or not making the NCAAs, either way sucks Looks like my LSSU anchor is still in play and the longer this goes on the less likely its ever going to change no matter who the coach is. Chances of catching lightning in a bottle twice are slim, very slim.

See my post below. College hockey isn’t what it used to be and it’s not just Maine.

 

[AMC]

Re: Maine

See my post below. College hockey isn’t what it used to be and it’s not just Maine.

The barrier to success isn't overly high. If a school decides to make the investment, it can become upper echelon. Some schools just rested on their laurels of "We're Minnesota, we'll always be good, and we'll always get our first picks of Minnesota kids." Some schools saw things decay to the point a massive investment is needed (Maine).

And some schools keep pouring in resources to stay up top (North Dakota). And some decided that hockey success was going to be a thing and institutionally drove themselves to get to that point (Minnesota State).

 

[Ma#1ne Hky]

Re: Maine

Not making the NCAAs or not making the NCAAs, either way sucks Looks like my LSSU anchor is still in play and the longer this goes on the less likely its ever going to change no matter who the coach is. Chances of catching lightning in a bottle twice are slim, very slim.

I am afraid your right...I keep holding out hope for at least a change behind the bench, someone with a new attitude and wanting to make this Program his. Staying the course is only eroding the die-hard fan base. For a lot of us that witness the good times we were really spoiled and now from the last 4-5 years of Whitehead and now in the Gendron era (error) we see how special we had it. Oh well nothing stays the same....but that does not mean we have to like it either.

 

[amkirby10]

Re: Maine

Last time Maine scored a goal 5 on 5 that wasn't an empty netter was November 23 at Northeastern by Mitchell Fossier, 5 games ago.

 

[walrus]

Re: Maine

See my post below. College hockey isn’t what it used to be and it’s not just Maine.

Its pretty obvious it isn't the same in Orono.

 

[Runsub5]

Re: Maine

Yet they’re ahead of BU, UNH, Michigan, Minnesota, and Wisconsin. Weird times to say the least.

BU has had injured players and are off to a slow start. Maine defeating them earlier this season was very encouraging. I am quite confident that BU will be getting healthy and finishing ahead of Maine in both record and PWR. Last night's game against NU could be the turning point.

 

[AMC]

Re: Maine

I am afraid your right...I keep holding out hope for at least a change behind the bench, someone with a new attitude and wanting to make this Program his. Staying the course is only eroding the die-hard fan base. For a lot of us that witness the good times we were really spoiled and now from the last 4-5 years of Whitehead and now in the Gendron era (error) we see how special we had it. Oh well nothing stays the same....but that does not mean we have to like it either.

Honestly, the University needs to figure out what the heck it is trying to do with the athletic department. If the answer is "check the box that we have Division I athletics" that is being accomplished. But that is it. It's becoming pretty apparent that any success in any sport is accidental at best.

The football team had one phenomenal year, but then promptly lost its coach to be a third level assistant at a bigger school. This past year was middling, AND they are saddled with an extra loss every year trying to balance the books playing two FBS games. The hockey program is adrift through two coaches, and the stands are emptying. Baseball is worse off than hockey with no clear path to reaching past heights. The men's basketball team, never a beacon of excellence, has been one of the worst in Division I for the better part of a decade and it would be shocking if they finished above 8th in their league in the near future. Field hockey, women's soccer, women's hockey, and softball are all middle of the road programs in their conference (that may be selling field hockey a bit short), and that counts as a rousing success in Orono.

Other than women's basketball (facing an injury nightmare this season but generally a good program), this athletic department is lost. Just utterly, completely, lost. This isn't on the current AD, or the last AD, or the AD before him. It's been a revolving door of administrators in the athletic department, in the University as a whole, and at the top of the University system. And the athletic department has continued to just stumble around, occasionally bumping into qualified successes. I hold out hope that some decade, a holy trifecta of a Chancellor, a President, and an Athletic Director with some competence and vision will come in at the same time and pull out a white piece of paper and re-design what Black Bear athletics should be. Until then, this is what it is.

Honestly, I don't even blame Red all that much. He wasn't a fantastic hire, but none of the pie in the sky candidates were realistic. And it is clear that the level of institutional support to be a top of the conference team isn't there. I'm not sure, other than an all-world coach who can create a cult of personality around himself, who can have success in Orono as things are situated.

 

[NorthMike]

Honestly, the University needs to figure out what the heck it is trying to do with the athletic department. If the answer is "check the box that we have Division I athletics" that is being accomplished. But that is it. It's becoming pretty apparent that any success in any sport is accidental at best.

The football team had one phenomenal year, but then promptly lost its coach to be a third level assistant at a bigger school. This past year was middling, AND they are saddled with an extra loss every year trying to balance the books playing two FBS games. The hockey program is adrift through two coaches, and the stands are emptying. Baseball is worse off than hockey with no clear path to reaching past heights. The men's basketball team, never a beacon of excellence, has been one of the worst in Division I for the better part of a decade and it would be shocking if they finished above 8th in their league in the near future. Field hockey, women's soccer, women's hockey, and softball are all middle of the road programs in their conference (that may be selling field hockey a bit short), and that counts as a rousing success in Orono.

Other than women's basketball (facing an injury nightmare this season but generally a good program), this athletic department is lost. Just utterly, completely, lost. This isn't on the current AD, or the last AD, or the AD before him. It's been a revolving door of administrators in the athletic department, in the University as a whole, and at the top of the University system. And the athletic department has continued to just stumble around, occasionally bumping into qualified successes. I hold out hope that some decade, a holy trifecta of a Chancellor, a President, and an Athletic Director with some competence and vision will come in at the same time and pull out a white piece of paper and re-design what Black Bear athletics should be. Until then, this is what it is.

Honestly, I don't even blame Red all that much. He wasn't a fantastic hire, but none of the pie in the sky candidates were realistic. And it is clear that the level of institutional support to be a top of the conference team isn't there. I'm not sure, other than an all-world coach who can create a cult of personality around himself, who can have success in Orono as things are situated.

Yeah good post, and you sum things up well.
I still think the hockey program is autonomous enough with enough budget that a good up and coming coach could turn it around to be relevant in a few years. After that they might loose the coach but that would be ok by me. Get it to that point and options open up.

 

[BlackI]

Yeah good post, and you sum things up well.
I still think the hockey program is autonomous enough with enough budget that a good up and coming coach could turn it around to be relevant in a few years. After that they might loose the coach but that would be ok by me. Get it to that point and options open up.

Should have happened by now. No defense coaching take a toll.

 

[amkirby10]

Honestly, the University needs to figure out what the heck it is trying to do with the athletic department. If the answer is "check the box that we have Division I athletics" that is being accomplished. But that is it. It's becoming pretty apparent that any success in any sport is accidental at best.

The football team had one phenomenal year, but then promptly lost its coach to be a third level assistant at a bigger school. This past year was middling, AND they are saddled with an extra loss every year trying to balance the books playing two FBS games. The hockey program is adrift through two coaches, and the stands are emptying. Baseball is worse off than hockey with no clear path to reaching past heights. The men's basketball team, never a beacon of excellence, has been one of the worst in Division I for the better part of a decade and it would be shocking if they finished above 8th in their league in the near future. Field hockey, women's soccer, women's hockey, and softball are all middle of the road programs in their conference (that may be selling field hockey a bit short), and that counts as a rousing success in Orono.

Other than women's basketball (facing an injury nightmare this season but generally a good program), this athletic department is lost. Just utterly, completely, lost. This isn't on the current AD, or the last AD, or the AD before him. It's been a revolving door of administrators in the athletic department, in the University as a whole, and at the top of the University system. And the athletic department has continued to just stumble around, occasionally bumping into qualified successes. I hold out hope that some decade, a holy trifecta of a Chancellor, a President, and an Athletic Director with some competence and vision will come in at the same time and pull out a white piece of paper and re-design what Black Bear athletics should be. Until then, this is what it is.

Honestly, I don't even blame Red all that much. He wasn't a fantastic hire, but none of the pie in the sky candidates were realistic. And it is clear that the level of institutional support to be a top of the conference team isn't there. I'm not sure, other than an all-world coach who can create a cult of personality around himself, who can have success in Orono as things are situated.

I agree with most of what you said. Going around the conference and just to other schools in general makes you realize that UMO is pretty behind and dosen't invest nearly as much as other schools. Changes at the top and greater investment are the first steps towards success for all of UMaine's athletic teams, not just hockey. Obviously a good head coach is a big piece of the puzzle, and Red may or may not be that, but even the best can only do so much when they lack the support of those at the top.

 

[AMC]

Re: Maine

I agree with most of what you said. Going around the conference and just to other schools in general makes you realize that UMO is pretty behind and dosen't invest nearly as much as other schools. Changes at the top and greater investment are the first steps towards success for all of UMaine's athletic teams, not just hockey. Obviously a good head coach is a big piece of the puzzle, and Red may or may not be that, but even the best can only do so much when they lack the support of those at the top.

You are right about looking around the conference. And it isn't even raw numbers- Maine spends about as much as its rivals in America East. The issue is not having any clue what the goal is with its spending. Just about every other school in Maine's conferences, you know what they are trying to do.

UNH: Sustain the success of the top ten football program with their upgraded facility. Hockey is a secondary priority, but the Whit is still a good facility. Don't have baseball, don't care about M or W basketball.
UVM: Be a top mid-major basketball program. Building a new basketball arena, pay their coaching staff very well for the level. Hockey can get towed along in the new arena. Don't have baseball or football.
Lowell: New to D-I, but are all in on hockey. Will support their basketball program, but it isn't the biggest priority.
BC: Has ACC money, so they don't need to narrow their focus as much.
BU: Hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey.
Northeastern: Cut football and have completely prioritized basketball and hockey, both of which have made recent tournament appearances. Catching BU in hockey.
Merrimack: Upgrading to D-I, so jury's out.
Providence: Basketball is #1, 2, 3. Hockey can be successful with Big East money as a 4th priority, as that amount of investment still dwarfs what the America East schools can make.
UConn: Basketball, Basketball, Basketball, to the point that they left their football conference. But, as a major state school, their pocket lint is competitive enough in other sports.
Albany, Stony Brook: Basketball and football.
Binghamton: Not committing major NCAA violations.
UMBC: No football, no baseball, no hockey. It's all basketball.

All these schools, you look at them and you say "that's a basketball (or hockey, or football) school and they are doing everything they can to be successful." What is UMaine? We pour tons of resources into hockey and football, but not quite enough for either to sustain success. Women's basketball maybe? The arena in Bangor dropped into their lap, so they didn't have to make a decision on the Alfond vs. a renovated Pit. It seems like a stopgap for basketball to be the focus. Baseball is a money pit with some influential alumni. Again, I ask, what are we doing here? What's the goal?

 

[amkirby10]

You are right about looking around the conference. And it isn't even raw numbers- Maine spends about as much as its rivals in America East. The issue is not having any clue what the goal is with its spending. Just about every other school in Maine's conferences, you know what they are trying to do.

UNH: Sustain the success of the top ten football program with their upgraded facility. Hockey is a secondary priority, but the Whit is still a good facility. Don't have baseball, don't care about M or W basketball.
UVM: Be a top mid-major basketball program. Building a new basketball arena, pay their coaching staff very well for the level. Hockey can get towed along in the new arena. Don't have baseball or football.
Lowell: New to D-I, but are all in on hockey. Will support their basketball program, but it isn't the biggest priority.
BC: Has ACC money, so they don't need to narrow their focus as much.
BU: Hockey, hockey, hockey, hockey.
Northeastern: Cut football and have completely prioritized basketball and hockey, both of which have made recent tournament appearances. Catching BU in hockey.
Merrimack: Upgrading to D-I, so jury's out.
Providence: Basketball is #1, 2, 3. Hockey can be successful with Big East money as a 4th priority, as that amount of investment still dwarfs what the America East schools can make.
UConn: Basketball, Basketball, Basketball, to the point that they left their football conference. But, as a major state school, their pocket lint is competitive enough in other sports.
Albany, Stony Brook: Basketball and football.
Binghamton: Not committing major NCAA violations.
UMBC: No football, no baseball, no hockey. It's all basketball.

All these schools, you look at them and you say "that's a basketball (or hockey, or football) school and they are doing everything they can to be successful." What is UMaine? We pour tons of resources into hockey and football, but not quite enough for either to sustain success. Women's basketball maybe? The arena in Bangor dropped into their lap, so they didn't have to make a decision on the Alfond vs. a renovated Pit. It seems like a stopgap for basketball to be the focus. Baseball is a money pit with some influential alumni. Again, I ask, what are we doing here? What's the goal?

I think the goal should be hockey, it's still the most popular program on campus among students and has obviously the best history of any UMaine program, including baseball. It's also theoretically popular and successful enough to turn some sort of profit, as it had in the past. I dont think any of the other sports can even have the potential to end up in the black at UMaine besides men's hockey. Maybe I'm wrong, but I don't see either of the two "revenue sports" for most schools making UMaine any money, seeing as men's basketball is a disgrace and football has too many scholarships to hand out and isn't popular or consistently successful enough. Any other sport is just a guaranteed net negative.

 

[umhockey91]

Re: Maine

Honestly, the University needs to figure out what the heck it is trying to do with the athletic department. If the answer is "check the box that we have Division I athletics" that is being accomplished. But that is it. It's becoming pretty apparent that any success in any sport is accidental at best.

The football team had one phenomenal year, but then promptly lost its coach to be a third level assistant at a bigger school. This past year was middling, AND they are saddled with an extra loss every year trying to balance the books playing two FBS games. The hockey program is adrift through two coaches, and the stands are emptying. Baseball is worse off than hockey with no clear path to reaching past heights. The men's basketball team, never a beacon of excellence, has been one of the worst in Division I for the better part of a decade and it would be shocking if they finished above 8th in their league in the near future. Field hockey, women's soccer, women's hockey, and softball are all middle of the road programs in their conference (that may be selling field hockey a bit short), and that counts as a rousing success in Orono.

Other than women's basketball (facing an injury nightmare this season but generally a good program), this athletic department is lost. Just utterly, completely, lost. This isn't on the current AD, or the last AD, or the AD before him. It's been a revolving door of administrators in the athletic department, in the University as a whole, and at the top of the University system. And the athletic department has continued to just stumble around, occasionally bumping into qualified successes. I hold out hope that some decade, a holy trifecta of a Chancellor, a President, and an Athletic Director with some competence and vision will come in at the same time and pull out a white piece of paper and re-design what Black Bear athletics should be. Until then, this is what it is.

Honestly, I don't even blame Red all that much. He wasn't a fantastic hire, but none of the pie in the sky candidates were realistic. And it is clear that the level of institutional support to be a top of the conference team isn't there. I'm not sure, other than an all-world coach who can create a cult of personality around himself, who can have success in Orono as things are situated.

GREAT post!

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Maine

I'm not going to speculate about the financial bottom-lines re: any Maine sports... And I'm pretty sure that none of us on here have the data to discuss that topic with any accuracy. None of us have access to the books, would be my guess.

Having said that, football has been worth more money to me than has hockey for a while now. (Not a lot of bang for the buck, granted, but hockey hasn't returned one thin dime in the net since Red was hired, while football absolutely has. It's been very easy to decide where to spend money and drive for miles to see Blue lately.)

It's clear to me that if hockey is to be resurrected, the very first move is to dump Red... That's as clear as glass to me, has been for years, and is logically irrefutable.

When he's gone, this discussion might make more sense. Right now, not so much. It might be less about the allocation of resources in Maine sports than it is about the hires, and Red was an awful choice, yet Maine doubled-down on that one.

I'll never figure that one out. Talk about "throwing good money after bad".

 

[NorthMike]

Re: Maine

Analysis of spending and revenue has been posted on here before, I believe by Sean Picket. He has spreadsheets and all from univ reporting.

 

[walrus]

Re: Maine

Fish, when was the last you were in Orono?

Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk

 

[BoSox3066]

Re: Maine

I blame Red. I blame Steve Abbott for hiring him. I blame Abbott for waiting 2 years to fire Whitehead when Leaman was available.

“Pie in the Sky candidates” I mean they could’ve hired Bob Corkum and been better than this. The guy’s going to win a gold medal in a couple years.

The institutional support thing bugs me too. Whitehead complained about it at the end. So now we’re saying Maine can’t win bc the support? So Whitehead was right all along then? Far as I’m concerned its excuse making.

 

[gscott13]

Re: Maine

Montgomery just got canned in Dallas... Come on Ken Ralph!