walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
Can't wait to find out who he does hire to help him run the program.
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Ma#1ne Hky
New member
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
It feels GOOD to feel GOOD about Maine Hockey again...its been long over due.
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
OK here's the practical point about Corkum's post-firing comments about TW ... it's not that what he said was "wrong" or that he didn't have the "right" to say what he did. It is however a practical issue for the CURRENT UMaine coach to know that Corkum had openly campaigned for the top post, and part of that campaign was to harpoon TW after he was fired. If I'm Gendron, that tells me (1) the guy will probably continue to harbor his own agenda and aspirations for what is now MY job, and (2) if he never said anything to TW's face about disagreeing with his direction - and I admit we don't know that, but can reasonably assume TW would have dropped Corkum if they did squabble privately - then how can I trust him to buy into MY program going forward? And I'm 110% sure that Gendron will talk to TW before he would even consider retaining Corkum.
Listen, I said at the time of Corkum's comments that it was a ballsy "all or nothing" gamble for the top job from a position of weakness (i.e. assistant on a losing program). BC clearly felt he needed to distance himself from TW's ways, and he did so. But in failing to land the top job, he knows the score, and it's not likely he would be coming back.
IF he does, then more power to him and UMaine, and Coach Gendron is a lot more trusting than most coaches at that level would be under the circumstances. JMHO.
OK here's the practical point about Corkum's post-firing comments about TW ... it's not that what he said was "wrong" or that he didn't have the "right" to say what he did. It is however a practical issue for the CURRENT UMaine coach to know that Corkum had openly campaigned for the top post, and part of that campaign was to harpoon TW after he was fired. If I'm Gendron, that tells me (1) the guy will probably continue to harbor his own agenda and aspirations for what is now MY job, and (2) if he never said anything to TW's face about disagreeing with his direction - and I admit we don't know that, but can reasonably assume TW would have dropped Corkum if they did squabble privately - then how can I trust him to buy into MY program going forward? And I'm 110% sure that Gendron will talk to TW before he would even consider retaining Corkum.
Listen, I said at the time of Corkum's comments that it was a ballsy "all or nothing" gamble for the top job from a position of weakness (i.e. assistant on a losing program). BC clearly felt he needed to distance himself from TW's ways, and he did so. But in failing to land the top job, he knows the score, and it's not likely he would be coming back.
IF he does, then more power to him and UMaine, and Coach Gendron is a lot more trusting than most coaches at that level would be under the circumstances. JMHO.
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
I agree. He went all in throwing TW under the bus and he lost the hand.
I agree. He went all in throwing TW under the bus and he lost the hand.
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
Such a risk with the program isn't realistic anymore. Maine is no longer the nobody it was in 1984. UMO needs a proven winner that can bring excitement back.
Such a risk with the program isn't realistic anymore. Maine is no longer the nobody it was in 1984. UMO needs a proven winner that can bring excitement back.
P
Priceless
Guest
walrus
Wind up workin' in a gas station
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
Just noticed another thing about Red, Masters Degree when he was Asst at Maine
http://bangordailynews.com/2013/05/...urth-head-mens-ice-hockey-coach/?ref=comments
Just noticed another thing about Red, Masters Degree when he was Asst at Maine
http://bangordailynews.com/2013/05/...urth-head-mens-ice-hockey-coach/?ref=comments
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Hoover
Member
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
I think Red Gendron will turn out to be a good hire. He has ties to Maine hockey, he's had a hand in several successes at the collegiate and professional level, and he's praised as a guy who's respected for his work ethic, innovation, and knowledge of how to get the most/best from those he works with.He's also well aware of how important the success of the Black Bears is to the entire State of Maine, as I believe they are "bigger" than even the AHL Pirates in terms of state-wide interest (someone please correct me if I'm wrong - I don't live in Maine but follow the goings-on closely).
Another poster here was lamenting the fact that Gendron is older than he/she was hoping for in a new coach, but I think he'll bring a sense of calm to the situation and to those who are familiar with his body of work. Of course, results do matter - Gendron is who they have now, and I'm encouraged for the immediate future of the program and will enjoy the new season rather than grind on about who should have been hired or who they missed out on like so many in this thread probably will.
I was sitting next to a fellow Fan Forum member as we watched the third period of the Frozen Four Championship game and for a moment we were talking about Red Gendron. In the back of my mind I thought he might be a good replacement for Tim Whithead if the rumours circulating that weekend of his impending dismissal turned out to be true. I admit that at the time I fell into the "Jim Montgomery has to be the next one..." group, but the events of the past several weeks have led me to think there would have been unrealistic expectations if he went to Orono. I'm satisfied with the hiring of Dennis "Red" Gendron and I'm looking forward to the next season to begin.
I think Red Gendron will turn out to be a good hire. He has ties to Maine hockey, he's had a hand in several successes at the collegiate and professional level, and he's praised as a guy who's respected for his work ethic, innovation, and knowledge of how to get the most/best from those he works with.He's also well aware of how important the success of the Black Bears is to the entire State of Maine, as I believe they are "bigger" than even the AHL Pirates in terms of state-wide interest (someone please correct me if I'm wrong - I don't live in Maine but follow the goings-on closely).
Another poster here was lamenting the fact that Gendron is older than he/she was hoping for in a new coach, but I think he'll bring a sense of calm to the situation and to those who are familiar with his body of work. Of course, results do matter - Gendron is who they have now, and I'm encouraged for the immediate future of the program and will enjoy the new season rather than grind on about who should have been hired or who they missed out on like so many in this thread probably will.
I was sitting next to a fellow Fan Forum member as we watched the third period of the Frozen Four Championship game and for a moment we were talking about Red Gendron. In the back of my mind I thought he might be a good replacement for Tim Whithead if the rumours circulating that weekend of his impending dismissal turned out to be true. I admit that at the time I fell into the "Jim Montgomery has to be the next one..." group, but the events of the past several weeks have led me to think there would have been unrealistic expectations if he went to Orono. I'm satisfied with the hiring of Dennis "Red" Gendron and I'm looking forward to the next season to begin.
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P
Priceless
Guest
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
From email:
From email:
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
I like the choice. But I wish Corkum to stay on as top assistant. It goes without saying he has earned it. And I would look now towards hiring another good assistant to compliment these two. This could be outstanding if we can keep Corkum on crew with Gendron and get a strong recruiter type. I will give big thumbs up. Corkum should stay on because there isn't much for him to lose and there won't be a very long number of years(to wait-given he has made his money and/or bones). Wish he stays on. But know if he can't. But wish he would to be a part of a success story. Corkum could make it happen. To me, the best thing to give me hope as a Mainer would be Gendron and Bobby working it out. That would be a remedy to fill the seats. Think about it.
I like the choice. But I wish Corkum to stay on as top assistant. It goes without saying he has earned it. And I would look now towards hiring another good assistant to compliment these two. This could be outstanding if we can keep Corkum on crew with Gendron and get a strong recruiter type. I will give big thumbs up. Corkum should stay on because there isn't much for him to lose and there won't be a very long number of years(to wait-given he has made his money and/or bones). Wish he stays on. But know if he can't. But wish he would to be a part of a success story. Corkum could make it happen. To me, the best thing to give me hope as a Mainer would be Gendron and Bobby working it out. That would be a remedy to fill the seats. Think about it.
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
He does have experience at a many different levels and has won a lot...me thinks that this will turn out to be a good hire! Congrats Maine and I'm sure your program will not hit a sand bar and sink to the bottom of the lake like LSSU did....
He does have experience at a many different levels and has won a lot...me thinks that this will turn out to be a good hire! Congrats Maine and I'm sure your program will not hit a sand bar and sink to the bottom of the lake like LSSU did....
Fishman'81
Black Bear since D-2
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
Red wasn't really on my personal radar, but he has an impressive resume at many different levels and strong Maine ties... And it sounds like he's still in touch with Grant.
Anyway, the deal is done for the time being, and I wish him every success.
Red wasn't really on my personal radar, but he has an impressive resume at many different levels and strong Maine ties... And it sounds like he's still in touch with Grant.
Anyway, the deal is done for the time being, and I wish him every success.
northeastern
Registered User
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
Good man, g'luck.
Good man, g'luck.
Red has the Shawn Walsh connections and success after he left Maine.
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
So...it looks like, from the Bangor Daily article, Red will talk with Bob and with Dan about their jobs.
Hey Bob...This would be a good time to explain to Red about your letter to the masses. You don't owe anyone on here an explanation. We get it.
Gendron fits the bill for what "we" on here were asking for; Maine ties, recruiting experience, success at multiple levels, ties to "The Season"...
My wish list: Gendron, Corkum and Perron...
So...it looks like, from the Bangor Daily article, Red will talk with Bob and with Dan about their jobs.
Hey Bob...This would be a good time to explain to Red about your letter to the masses. You don't owe anyone on here an explanation. We get it.
Gendron fits the bill for what "we" on here were asking for; Maine ties, recruiting experience, success at multiple levels, ties to "The Season"...
My wish list: Gendron, Corkum and Perron...
Chuck Murray
WIS & Effingwoods Hockey Almanac
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
Not sure what "goes without saying". There's a long line of assistant coaches who were with losing programs who are now out of D-1 hockey, or working at lower/other levels of hockey, or out of hockey entirely. Obviously you have positive feelings about Corkum, and his involvement in the UMaine program as a player and a coach. But let's not overstate what he's "earned".
See, that's the problem. Coach Gendron shouldn't have to "work it out" when it comes to hiring his own staff as an incoming head coach. It's not his issue that Corkum didn't get the job. But let's just play make-believe, and walk a few questions into a would-be interview between Coach Gendron and Coach Corkum:
RG: Howdy Bob. How's things?
BC: Supah, Red. Congrats BTW on getting the job. I hope I can help you out next season.
RG: Let's talk about that then. I know you wanted to be on this side of the desk for this interview, and I respect all that you've done for the University and this program in the past as a player and as a coach. But I noticed you had some interesting things to say a few weeks ago about Coach Whitehead after his departure. Care to elaborate?
BC: Sure, Red. You know, you coached with Coach Walsh in the past, and I played for Coach Walsh. We both know the "Black Bear Way", and I also knew Coach Whitehead wasn't thinking along those same lines, and running things differently than when you guys and Grant were running the show. I kept my mouth shut, did what Tim asked me to do, and was a good soldier. It was frustrating at times. So when Coach Whitehead was fired, and they hired me as an interim coach, I wanted to make sure everyone knew I wasn't going to go down the Coach Whitehead path. I want to do something more like the good old days with Coach Walsh ...
RG: (to himself) He just said "want" and not "wanted". Hmmmm ...
BC: ... where we play hard and with an edge, and teach kids the right way to play. Make them into future pros, or at least give them future pro careers at some level. But play the game the right way, and the way that will pack out Alfond, just like we did in the old days.
RG: (to himself) He's making assumptions about how my program is going to play. Let's test that ...
RG: Thanks for the insight, Bob. Listen, I know we all have ideas and asiprations about the "right" way and the "wrong" way, and sometimes those things change over time. Heck, look at the way the Black Bears won back in the '90's, and compare that with how the Devils won a decade ago, and more recently with how Yale won last season. I'm not sure there is ever a set magic formula that lasts forever. Other than death and taxes, anyway. I've spent almost my entire coaching career in your shoes, working for a lot of different guys with different ideas, and I've seen success come in a lot of different ways. I've also seen teams come up short, and I have a lot of thoughts and ideas why that might have happened. But I don't think I've ever come out in print being critical of one of my superiors - even after the fact.
BC: Understood. I did what I thought I had to, under the circumstances. Heck, I bleed Maine blue. Nothing I said was inaccurate, and I think most UMaine fans would agree.
RG: Understood as well, Bob. But listen - let's cut to the chase. I've been a career assistant - just like you are now - for a LOT longer than you have, and at times I've had to bite my tongue and go along with something that my bosses have said that I disagreed with to the core. It happens to everyone at some point, in all walks of life, and while maybe no one cares when some junior associate patent attorney disagrees with a senior partner in their firm to the point that it shows up on Twitter, Facebook or the Daily News, in our business, that does happen, and public opinion does count for something in our "business". So, at the end of the day, tell me why after all these years of assisting other folks' programs, and finally getting the only head coaching job I ever really wanted this late in my career, how is it that I can or should trust that I'll have your 100% backing??
BC: ... (this either makes or breaks it) ...
IF you are Coach Corkum, how do you answer that in a way that erases any doubts Coach Gendron might have about your loyalty?
My apologies for taking some liberties with some of the phrasing (i.e. "Black Bear Way") here.
Not sure what "goes without saying". There's a long line of assistant coaches who were with losing programs who are now out of D-1 hockey, or working at lower/other levels of hockey, or out of hockey entirely. Obviously you have positive feelings about Corkum, and his involvement in the UMaine program as a player and a coach. But let's not overstate what he's "earned".
See, that's the problem. Coach Gendron shouldn't have to "work it out" when it comes to hiring his own staff as an incoming head coach. It's not his issue that Corkum didn't get the job. But let's just play make-believe, and walk a few questions into a would-be interview between Coach Gendron and Coach Corkum:
RG: Howdy Bob. How's things?
BC: Supah, Red. Congrats BTW on getting the job. I hope I can help you out next season.
RG: Let's talk about that then. I know you wanted to be on this side of the desk for this interview, and I respect all that you've done for the University and this program in the past as a player and as a coach. But I noticed you had some interesting things to say a few weeks ago about Coach Whitehead after his departure. Care to elaborate?
BC: Sure, Red. You know, you coached with Coach Walsh in the past, and I played for Coach Walsh. We both know the "Black Bear Way", and I also knew Coach Whitehead wasn't thinking along those same lines, and running things differently than when you guys and Grant were running the show. I kept my mouth shut, did what Tim asked me to do, and was a good soldier. It was frustrating at times. So when Coach Whitehead was fired, and they hired me as an interim coach, I wanted to make sure everyone knew I wasn't going to go down the Coach Whitehead path. I want to do something more like the good old days with Coach Walsh ...
RG: (to himself) He just said "want" and not "wanted". Hmmmm ...
BC: ... where we play hard and with an edge, and teach kids the right way to play. Make them into future pros, or at least give them future pro careers at some level. But play the game the right way, and the way that will pack out Alfond, just like we did in the old days.
RG: (to himself) He's making assumptions about how my program is going to play. Let's test that ...
RG: Thanks for the insight, Bob. Listen, I know we all have ideas and asiprations about the "right" way and the "wrong" way, and sometimes those things change over time. Heck, look at the way the Black Bears won back in the '90's, and compare that with how the Devils won a decade ago, and more recently with how Yale won last season. I'm not sure there is ever a set magic formula that lasts forever. Other than death and taxes, anyway. I've spent almost my entire coaching career in your shoes, working for a lot of different guys with different ideas, and I've seen success come in a lot of different ways. I've also seen teams come up short, and I have a lot of thoughts and ideas why that might have happened. But I don't think I've ever come out in print being critical of one of my superiors - even after the fact.
BC: Understood. I did what I thought I had to, under the circumstances. Heck, I bleed Maine blue. Nothing I said was inaccurate, and I think most UMaine fans would agree.
RG: Understood as well, Bob. But listen - let's cut to the chase. I've been a career assistant - just like you are now - for a LOT longer than you have, and at times I've had to bite my tongue and go along with something that my bosses have said that I disagreed with to the core. It happens to everyone at some point, in all walks of life, and while maybe no one cares when some junior associate patent attorney disagrees with a senior partner in their firm to the point that it shows up on Twitter, Facebook or the Daily News, in our business, that does happen, and public opinion does count for something in our "business". So, at the end of the day, tell me why after all these years of assisting other folks' programs, and finally getting the only head coaching job I ever really wanted this late in my career, how is it that I can or should trust that I'll have your 100% backing??
BC: ... (this either makes or breaks it) ...
IF you are Coach Corkum, how do you answer that in a way that erases any doubts Coach Gendron might have about your loyalty?
My apologies for taking some liberties with some of the phrasing (i.e. "Black Bear Way") here.
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Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
There is no single correct answer to that question. The loyalty, while it would be nice to be with the coach, really belongs with the program and the stakeholders in the program. Bob has shown that he can "toe the line" even though he has significant reservations about the directives coming from the top. He also showed his passion for the program and desire to see these kids succeed. Did he choose the right forum to voice his opinion? Maybe, maybe not. His choosing this forum and the Facebook forum to publish his letter kind of tipped his (and Tim's) hand as to just how much the (former) coaching staff actually read/paid attention to what was said here....or at least to how much what was said actually got into Tim's head. (Enough that he gave us all a collective nickname)
Flipping the question to you...what would BC have to say to pass muster for you?
There is no single correct answer to that question. The loyalty, while it would be nice to be with the coach, really belongs with the program and the stakeholders in the program. Bob has shown that he can "toe the line" even though he has significant reservations about the directives coming from the top. He also showed his passion for the program and desire to see these kids succeed. Did he choose the right forum to voice his opinion? Maybe, maybe not. His choosing this forum and the Facebook forum to publish his letter kind of tipped his (and Tim's) hand as to just how much the (former) coaching staff actually read/paid attention to what was said here....or at least to how much what was said actually got into Tim's head. (Enough that he gave us all a collective nickname)
Flipping the question to you...what would BC have to say to pass muster for you?
Re: Maine Hockey Thread II: The Search for Spock
i think this whole bob corkum letter as it relates to any possible gendron/corkum relationship is a bit overblown... the reality is that red knows that bob was a finalist for the position and that in of itself will need to be addressed... essentially a conversation that is simply, "bob, i know you wanted the position, but i need to know before i extend you, that you are going to be able to handle me coming in as your new boss and that i have 100% support from you in that regard."
that conversation is going to happen. if bob convinces red that he is on board 100% and that there will not be any difficulties, then any concerns over "the letter" will similarly be put to rest...
i still think kerluke needs to go. can keep one, but not both.
i think this whole bob corkum letter as it relates to any possible gendron/corkum relationship is a bit overblown... the reality is that red knows that bob was a finalist for the position and that in of itself will need to be addressed... essentially a conversation that is simply, "bob, i know you wanted the position, but i need to know before i extend you, that you are going to be able to handle me coming in as your new boss and that i have 100% support from you in that regard."
that conversation is going to happen. if bob convinces red that he is on board 100% and that there will not be any difficulties, then any concerns over "the letter" will similarly be put to rest...
i still think kerluke needs to go. can keep one, but not both.
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