LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

[jnacc]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

You people up there are fooling yourselves to think it is otherwise.

No one is fooling themselves up here. Next year in a new conference this program will be more competitive, the only problem is that it will be a much weaker conference but that is not something Lake State can do anything about...the college game has changed a great deal since the late 80's and there just isn't any way to go back.

 

[Truth Serum]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Lake State can do anything about...the college game has changed a great deal since the late 80's and there just isn't any way to go back.

I guess Union and Ferris State must have missed the memo. Keep the excuses coming, it is always a lot of entertainment hearing the excuses the apologists come up with and the name calling. You people are very amusing up there.

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

RE: Hockey development in the Soo. Hockey is a funny sport at the youth level in the US -- because more than most other large-organized-team-sports, one SOB, or collection of SOBs, can really spoil the situation. That has been true in the past for the Soo Michigan Hockey Association. I would argue that the program is well attended, well funded, and well organized for development and the youth -- but as the age of the players increases, there is such a huge push for elite teams, special teams, all-star teams -- that many kids get pushed aside (sadly) by the time they are 11-12 years old. Price and time are factors, too -- because suddenly basketball an football are school sponsored, don't require extra ice-time fees. Frankly, in my opinion, this is the problem with USA Hockey in general, but that is a different soapbox (e.g., too much emphasis on winning and losing and building big-time teams by alleged big-time coaches, instead of emphasis on playing hockey just because its a fun game to play). Too many people want to push too much elite hockey too early, and there is no room for late bloomers nor poor kids. And the Soo has plenty of late bloomers and more than its fair share of the poor.

RE: The Lakers. Holy cow, did you guys hit the nail on the head: If you are going to be a defense-first team, you have to convert on your PP. You must. No exceptions. PP is key.

RE: Recruiting. Nice to see some "leading scorers" signing up. That has NOT always been the case during the past 15+ years in the wilderness. Furthermore, it is indeed nice to see some NAHL boys coming on board, and I think the presence of a team in the Soo is a huge factor. Players get to see the Soo, and the stadium, and the college. At a bare minimum, Sault Ste. Marie isn't a completely foreign locale. NCAA rules and regulations make it unlikely that Coach Roque and his staff ar sitting in the stands for each practice, but they can attend games, meet with coaches of JR teams, etc . . . . I think the USHL is a superior league, and we are still not really breaking into that league -- although to be fair the WCHA teams have that region staked out pretty solidly.

I think the Jr.A Provincial Leagues are very good hockey. Some are better than others. The BC league is, right now, at the top. But not so long ago the Alberta league was the big NCAA D-I feeder. And before that, the Saskatchewan League was the gold standard. It goes in cycles, I think. (I can't speak to the East and those junior teams, because I have no clue as to their level. I assume that sine Hockey East puts out some darn fine line-ups that those leagues must be pretty solid). Like every other feeder-league, each of these leagues are well scouted and picked over by every NCAA program. Its hard to find a fluke-player who falls through the cracks. It just doesn't happen anymore. Distance, weather, and cost used to make the Western junior leagues a favorite place for speculation on players. Not so any more.

So I am heartened that some good skill-players with good speed at heading to the Soo. As we saw from the list of players who left early over the past few years, imagine our current line-up with them in it. I think the Coach and his staff are doing a good job bringing in increasingly more talented players. Its not easy to keep them -- ask Denver and North Dakota, for instance, who routinely lose NHL draft picks after only a few years of playing college hockey. But I continue to see increased growth with the program.

 

[Neil Diamond]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Is the Soo really a hockey town though? Twenty years ago I would have said without a doubt but now I'm inclined to believe that people in the Soo view hockey as just one of many sports, holding no special place. Youth registration in the game is down SIGNIFICANTLY! So much so that the soo hockey association has a difficult time in forming house-league teams for all the age groups.

Considering that on many weekends between the months of October and March there may be numerous hockey games all over the town (one example: Lakers on a Fri/Sat night; Blue Devils on a Fri night / Sat afternoon; Eagles on a Fri / Sat night; Firehawks on a Fri/Sat/ Sun schedule; house and travel teams playing) that it is still a "hockey town". Another reason I believe it is because there has been no discernible uptick in the other sports as far as participation goes: football still struggles to get meaningful numbers; basketball and baseball numbers are more or less stagnant.

From 7 on a Friday night until Sunday evening you can go to some rink in town and find a hockey game (save, of course, for the bedtime hours).

Yeah, it's still a hockey town.

 

[RapidsCity]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

The question is: what do you want him to say? I guess if you mean by "telling it like it is" you want him to come out and say they all suck there is no hope for the rest of the year? I'm sure that would do a lot of good. Go ahead, Jim, kill what little moral is left. Geez.

I find it hard to fault any of the coaches, including Roque. It's not like they aren't trying to find a winning combo. At the end of the day, it's the players jobs to finish and score goals, not the coaches. I think we can all agree that even though we don't have a ton of superstars on this team, the talent is there to be scoring more goals. The players need to finish. You could bring Mike Babcock in here and it wouldn't make one bit of difference if the players aren't putting the biscuit in the basket.

Pretend I'm a player who can finish, has that goal scoring knack. Now, I'm not good enough for Michigan or Boston College to want me at least as a first liner/ full scholarship guy, but have schools like Ferris, Bemidji, NMU, Western interested. Why should LSSU be my pick over the other schools. What does LSSU offer that those type of places don't have? Now, for you Truthy fire the coach types. I'm a coach who has the credentials and resume that will attract some more of those better players. Why would I come to the Soo for the lowest salary in the league, smallest recruiting budget and travel arrangements that hardly rank as convenient?

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Greyhounds have a new coach, Sheldon Keefe, who coached Zack Loesch at Pembroke.

 

[AnchorsAway]

Pretend I'm a player who can finish, has that goal scoring knack. Now, I'm not good enough for Michigan or Boston College to want me at least as a first liner/ full scholarship guy, but have schools like Ferris, Bemidji, NMU, Western interested. Why should LSSU be my pick over the other schools. What does LSSU offer that those type of places don't have? Now, for you Truthy fire the coach types. I'm a coach who has the credentials and resume that will attract some more of those better players. Why would I come to the Soo for the lowest salary in the league, smallest recruiting budget and travel arrangements that hardly rank as convenient?

Well that is more or less the stated point, of all of these facility improvements to the Norris Center, fundraisers for the hockey budget, etc. 5 years from now the hope is that the answer to your hypothetical questions is:

-player: LSSU has a brand new state of the art training facility and hockey center that is as good as I am going to find in the Midwest, I will be able to get a lot of playing time from Day 1 of my freshman year, their program has sent an awful lot of guys to the AHL recently and many of them have stuck in that league for a considerable amount of time, so LSSU must be doing something right to produce players that are prepared for that level of play, and they've done so with their old training center and facilities, now that their state of the art training is up and running, that should help even more.
They have had guys leave early with no backlash from the program so if I really made it big and got an offer to leave early I could do so without issue.

Just like the other teams after me, they play in ( what figures to be)a small, competitive conference (nWCHA) so I have a feasable chance to play for a league title and NCAA spot in any given year. it's a program with a championship tradition that the other competing schools can't compare to at any time in their history, even if LSSU's was awhile ago and it would be cool to help try to resurrect the program's winning tradition (to a certain extent) in such a hockey happy happy region.

Coach: LSSU is a unique opportunity, very few small schools anywhere in d1 hockey can match the level of brand new facilities that LSSU can and very few NCAA schools of any size have as many championship banners in the rafters. The Lakers just joined a conference against similarly sized schools and small budgets so there is no more glass ceiling from a chance to build a year in, year out winner like the Lakers were saddled with in the old CCHA when they simply couldnt keep up with the MIchigan, Notre Dame's etc. from a monetary standpoint. The nWCHA champ gets an NCAA bid so there is a chance to get more national recognition, that could help me land my next job, I may mot be getting rich while i'm at LSSU but neither were Ron Mason, Rick Comley or Jeff Jackson and look where they ended up career wise. With foundation of tradition and facilities and playing in a conference with no real juggernaut, LSSU if marketed, recruited and coached the right way could become the premier "mid major" program in all of D1 hockey and if I was able resurrect that program I ought to be in the mix for a coaching job that will take me to the next step on the ladder.

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Well that is more or less the stated point, of all of these facility improvements to the Norris Center, fundraisers for the hockey budget, etc. 5 years from now the hope is that the answer to your hypothetical questions is:

-player: LSSU has a brand new state of the art training facility and hockey center that is as good as I am going to find in the Midwest, I will be able to get a lot of playing time from Day 1 of my freshman year, their program has sent an awful lot of guys to the AHL recently and many of them have stuck in that league for a considerable amount of time, so LSSU must be doing something right to produce players that are prepared for that level of play, and they've done so with their old training center and facilities, now that their state of the art training is up and running, that should help even more.
They have had guys leave early with no backlash from the program so if I really made it big and got an offer to leave early I could do so without issue.

Just like the other teams after me, they play in ( what figures to be)a small, competitive conference (nWCHA) so I have a feasable chance to play for a league title and NCAA spot in any given year. it's a program with a championship tradition that the other competing schools can't compare to at any time in their history, even if LSSU's was awhile ago and it would be cool to help try to resurrect the program's winning tradition (to a certain extent) in such a hockey happy happy region.

Coach: LSSU is a unique opportunity, very few small schools anywhere in d1 hockey can match the level of brand new facilities that LSSU can and very few NCAA schools of any size have as many championship banners in the rafters. The Lakers just joined a conference against similarly sized schools and small budgets so there is no more glass ceiling from a chance to build a year in, year out winner like the Lakers were saddled with in the old CCHA when they simply couldnt keep up with the MIchigan, Notre Dame's etc. from a monetary standpoint. The nWCHA champ gets an NCAA bid so there is a chance to get more national recognition, that could help me land my next job, I may mot be getting rich while i'm at LSSU but neither were Ron Mason, Rick Comley or Jeff Jackson and look where they ended up career wise. With foundation of tradition and facilities and playing in a conference with no real juggernaut, LSSU if marketed, recruited and coached the right way could become the premier "mid major" program in all of D1 hockey and if I was able resurrect that program I ought to be in the mix for a coaching job that will take me to the next step on the ladder.

Very true in every respect.

LSSU, as a school and campus, is not for everyone. Never has been. Never will be.

 

[RapidsCity]

Well that is more or less the stated point, of all of these facility improvements to the Norris Center, fundraisers for the hockey budget, etc. 5 years from now the hope is that the answer to your hypothetical questions is:

-player: LSSU has a brand new state of the art training facility and hockey center that is as good as I am going to find in the Midwest, I will be able to get a lot of playing time from Day 1 of my freshman year, their program has sent an awful lot of guys to the AHL recently and many of them have stuck in that league for a considerable amount of time, so LSSU must be doing something right to produce players that are prepared for that level of play, and they've done so with their old training center and facilities, now that their state of the art training is up and running, that should help even more.
They have had guys leave early with no backlash from the program so if I really made it big and got an offer to leave early I could do so without issue.

Just like the other teams after me, they play in ( what figures to be)a small, competitive conference (nWCHA) so I have a feasable chance to play for a league title and NCAA spot in any given year. it's a program with a championship tradition that the other competing schools can't compare to at any time in their history, even if LSSU's was awhile ago and it would be cool to help try to resurrect the program's winning tradition (to a certain extent) in such a hockey happy happy region.

Coach: LSSU is a unique opportunity, very few small schools anywhere in d1 hockey can match the level of brand new facilities that LSSU can and very few NCAA schools of any size have as many championship banners in the rafters. The Lakers just joined a conference against similarly sized schools and small budgets so there is no more glass ceiling from a chance to build a year in, year out winner like the Lakers were saddled with in the old CCHA when they simply couldnt keep up with the MIchigan, Notre Dame's etc. from a monetary standpoint. The nWCHA champ gets an NCAA bid so there is a chance to get more national recognition, that could help me land my next job, I may mot be getting rich while i'm at LSSU but neither were Ron Mason, Rick Comley or Jeff Jackson and look where they ended up career wise. With foundation of tradition and facilities and playing in a conference with no real juggernaut, LSSU if marketed, recruited and coached the right way could become the premier "mid major" program in all of D1 hockey and if I was able resurrect that program I ought to be in the mix for a coaching job that will take me to the next step on the ladder.

I really like that! Terrific post!

 

[DB Cooper]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Lakerblue, don't even get me started on the idiocy of "elite" and "travel teams" in any sport at such young ages. Aside from the well deserved pride ( and car window stickers) that parents get as their 6 year old's team beats the team from Green Bay, this practice is destructive from all points of view. Players not selected feel second rate at a young age, and quit to play video games and smoke dope. Players selected gain a sense of entitlement that handicaps their development. A local travel coach told me he intended to coach the same boys in hockey from age 9 until high school. So much for the integrity of tryouts. I could go on forever on this topic.

Does anyone know the percentage of times a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 break should produce a goal. Is it just my imagination, or do the Lakers not only not score often on these odd man rushes, but frequently don't even get a shot on goal? I admit I take these things hard. For point of reference, I haven't seen a penalty call against the Lakers in the last 5 seasons with which I agree.

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Lakerblue, don't even get me started on the idiocy of "elite" and "travel teams" in any sport at such young ages. Aside from the well deserved pride ( and car window stickers) that parents get as their 6 year old's team beats the team from Green Bay, this practice is destructive from all points of view. Players not selected feel second rate at a young age, and quit to play video games and smoke dope. Players selected gain a sense of entitlement that handicaps their development. A local travel coach told me he intended to coach the same boys in hockey from age 9 until high school. So much for the integrity of tryouts. I could go on forever on this topic.

Does anyone know the percentage of times a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 break should produce a goal. Is it just my imagination, or do the Lakers not only not score often on these odd man rushes, but frequently don't even get a shot on goal? I admit I take these things hard. For point of reference, I haven't seen a penalty call against the Lakers in the last 5 seasons with which I agree.

PP and odd man rushes ar where the Lakers need to finish -- and I believe they need to finish at a higher percentage than other teams, because of their defensive mindset. And they don't. The PP is hair-pulling and irritating. The inability to finish off a good 2x1 or rare 3x1 -- or even produce a good scoring chance -- is more frustrating. Its all overall better this year than in years past, but it all still needs a serious increase in the % of succesful PP and odd-man rush chances.

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Lakerblue, don't even get me started on the idiocy of "elite" and "travel teams" in any sport at such young ages. Aside from the well deserved pride ( and car window stickers) that parents get as their 6 year old's team beats the team from Green Bay, this practice is destructive from all points of view. Players not selected feel second rate at a young age, and quit to play video games and smoke dope. Players selected gain a sense of entitlement that handicaps their development. A local travel coach told me he intended to coach the same boys in hockey from age 9 until high school. So much for the integrity of tryouts. I could go on forever on this topic.

Does anyone know the percentage of times a 2 on 1 or 3 on 1 break should produce a goal. Is it just my imagination, or do the Lakers not only not score often on these odd man rushes, but frequently don't even get a shot on goal? I admit I take these things hard. For point of reference, I haven't seen a penalty call against the Lakers in the last 5 seasons with which I agree.

Personally, I am a proponent of House leagues (where possbile with the numbers) through age 12. I know there are a LOT of dads out there who believe that little Johnny is going to be an NHL star. He isn't. Even the very best kid on some of the better travel squads won't even play past high school, at most. So why the huge push by parents -- and the parents are 100% to blame, IMHO -- ?

Why, in every sport, but especially hockey where its so absrudly acute, is there this push to take "the best kids" and put them on an "all star" team to play "top tier" tournys? At AGE NINE? The pyschological poison of this system, as noted by Cooper, cannot by overstated.

 

[Frank_Jiang]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Old thread was about to max out. So I thought I 'd fire up a new thread.

Absolutely agree with you!

 

[jnacc]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Personally, I am a proponent of House leagues (where possbile with the numbers) through age 12. I know there are a LOT of dads out there who believe that little Johnny is going to be an NHL star. He isn't. Even the very best kid on some of the better travel squads won't even play past high school, at most. So why the huge push by parents -- and the parents are 100% to blame, IMHO -- ?

Why, in every sport, but especially hockey where its so absrudly acute, is there this push to take "the best kids" and put them on an "all star" team to play "top tier" tournys? At AGE NINE? The pyschological poison of this system, as noted by Cooper, cannot by overstated.

The formation of travel teams at the squirt level based heavily on political and peer factions has basically collapsed the numbers for youth players so much so that we can no longer form proper divisions of house-league teams. This inverted pyramid structure is causing havoc with our development as many players are turning their backs on the game leaving only a static number to be recycled all the way up through the age divisions. The results speak for themselves. The Soo's squirt rep team could not even win a house-league tournament in Soo Ontario last weekend. A month or so ago I watched our Peewee AA team get thrashed 10-1 by Marquette. People that I work with are steering their children away from youth hockey because they are sick of the politics. Do not expect the development of future NHL players anytime soon.

I guess Union and Ferris State must have missed the memo.

Wasn't aware that Union or Ferris won three national championships in the past 10 years truthy....well maybe in your world...

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

The formation of travel teams at the squirt level based heavily on political and peer factions has basically collapsed the numbers for youth players so much so that we can no longer form proper divisions of house-league teams. This inverted pyramid structure is causing havoc with our development as many players are turning their backs on the game leaving only a static number to be recycled all the way up through the age divisions. The results speak for themselves. The Soo's squirt rep team could not even win a house-league tournament in Soo Ontario last weekend. A month or so ago I watched our Peewee AA team get thrashed 10-1 by Marquette. People that I work with are steering their children away from youth hockey because they are sick of the politics. Do not expect the development of future NHL players anytime soon....

The politics are greatly reduced when you play House. Sadly, I don't see this situation changing anytime soon. Too many parents living their dreams of athletic glory through their children. And lord knows, in the Soo, there are a whole LOT of people for whom youth athletic glory was the highlight of their life. (Well, the Soo and just about any other town in the midwest). I like the term "inverted pyramid." I don't know if its original or not, but it is spot-on descriptive of the situation in youth hockey specfically in the Soo, and generally everywhere else.

 

[Truth Squad]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Wasn't aware that Union or Ferris won three national championships in the past 10 years truthy....well maybe in your world...

Lake Superior won 3 National Championships in 7 years, all thanks to Frank Anzalone building the program into a national powerhouse coaching and responsible for the players winning the titles for one. Secondly, Union and Ferris were in the Final Four last year. So the argument by the most ardent Roque apologists saying hockey has changed so much isn't true. The last 8 seasons have seen 8 finishes in the bottom half of the standings, 0 NCAA appearances. I know you people up there and on here can't be that objective, but the facts and truth speaks for itself.

The Truth Is Out There....
TBA

 

[DB Cooper]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

The politics are greatly reduced when you play House. Sadly, I don't see this situation changing anytime soon. Too many parents living their dreams of athletic glory through their children. And lord knows, in the Soo, there are a whole LOT of people for whom youth athletic glory was the highlight of their life. (Well, the Soo and just about any other town in the midwest). I like the term "inverted pyramid." I don't know if its original or not, but it is spot-on descriptive of the situation in youth hockey specfically in the Soo, and generally everywhere else.

We agree. The goal should be maximum numbers participating for as long as possible. Until sufficient numbers of players register at an age group to form a meaningful house league (4 or more teams), there should be no travel teams. Most of the current "travel" players have demonstrated that they are not really good enough to be on a "travel" team. They are only there because of a shortage of bodies.

The league lacks leadership. The rules change every year. A constitution and league rules should be established, and followed, not modified yearly to suit the personal interests of the board members. Michigan amateur hockey (MAHA) and USA hockey should appoint a board and president to run the soo league, much like the State of Michigan has to run the Detroit schools. Tryouts should be conducted by out of town evaluators. If not, the soo michigan league should beg the soo ontario league to let the boys join.

My kids are lucky, they have always been eligible to play in sault, ontario, and their leagues have been well run. The most important goal I have for my kids is that some day they are employable. Not there yet.

Sorry for the diatribe. As I said, don't get me started. Back to you Truth Serum.

 

[DopeyBaker]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Lake Superior won 3 National Championships in 7 years, all thanks to Frank Anzalone building the program into a national powerhouse coaching and responsible for the players winning the titles for one. Secondly, Union and Ferris were in the Final Four last year. So the argument by the most ardent Roque apologists saying hockey has changed so much isn't true. The last 8 seasons have seen 8 finishes in the bottom half of the standings, 0 NCAA appearances. I know you people up there and on here can't be that objective, but the facts and truth speaks for itself.

The Truth Is Out There....
TBA

Anzalone:
01-02: 8-27-2 (.243)
02-03: 6-28-4 (.211)
03-04: 9-20-7 (.347)
04-05: 9-22-7 (.329)

 

[FRICKER]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Laerblue...............perhaps your "old school" belief of holding back higly skilled players by playing them in "house" leagues until age 12 is a major factor why more northcountry players don't develop to play in the USHL, D1, or pro levels. In the Metro Detroit area, it is said that if a player isn't playing AAA hockey by age 10, he may NEVER catch up with those who play AAA at a younger age. My
youngest son, Matt, started playing AAA at age 7 after 3 years of skating skills development and 1 year of house (6 years of age playing Squirt house).

 

[DB Cooper]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Laerblue...............perhaps your "old school" belief of holding back higly skilled players by playing them in "house" leagues until age 12 is a major factor why more northcountry players don't develop to play in the USHL, D1, or pro levels. In the Metro Detroit area, it is said that if a player isn't playing AAA hockey by age 10, he may NEVER catch up with those who play AAA at a younger age. My
youngest son, Matt, started playing AAA at age 7 after 3 years of skating skills development and 1 year of house (6 years of age playing Squirt house).

Right. Because by the age of 10 it is clear which boys at the age of 20-22 will have the physical and mental traits needed to play at an elite level. Wake up parents, what they are selecting at the age of 10 (or younger) are parents willing to buy into a system that costs a ridiculous amount of money to purchase coaching and practice and games. A randomly chosen group of boys from a playground run through the same system would have the same or better results. It is a self fullfilling prophecy. It is the same sort of thinking that has parents in Manhattan (my sister in law included) thinking if they don't get their little darlings into the right preschool, they won't get into Yale. Lets face it, boys are AAA midget players primarily because they were AAA mite minors, not because they are more gifted. It is a system that more and more is pricing families out of hockey, and elite hockey in particular. "Hockey Academies?" - really? A bantam age boy that has the physical and mental make up to play in the NHL, who has played high quality house league hockey, will catch up to the average "travel" player in short time given the same experiences. Currently this boy has already quit playing, or never started. I understand and agree that family support, financial included, is essential to success of children, but lets not kid ouselves that this system selects the absolute best candidates for elite hockey.