LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

it's nice his coaches think he is a great skater and such , but, and always a but. How many players do we have now and have had who came with the same glowing report .

 

[AnchorsAway]

it's nice his coaches think he is a great skater and such , but, and always a but. How many players do we have now and have had who came with the same glowing report .

We may have had many players who come in with a glowing report from their junior coaches and then disappointed but what do you expect the coaches to say? Now how many top ten NAHL scorers have we had recently? The answer would be one- Ciotti finished 5th in NAHL scoring his last year in St. Louis, and he has panned out thus far, he tied with Robinson as our highest scoring freshman last year and is currently leading our team in goals and is third in points so I am a little more amped about this type of recruit, (call me biased but I just think it seems like the NAHL and USHL kids stats are a more reliable indicator of NCAA success, there is a myriad of leagues in Canada and the talent is so spread out that it seems like kids with great points per game numbers are a lot easier to find and as thus it discredits the numbers somewhat).

 

[AnchorsAway]

Unfortunately, NCAA recruiting rules really limit how much Coach Roque, Christian, & Laprade can do down at the Soo Eagles camp. They can only scout a team 8 times in a full year (not 100% sure on the count, but 8 sticks in my head). I know some of the Soo Eagles guys were saying the Laker staff don't really collaborate much with them, but the NCAA rules prohibit a lot of that. I'm sure they would work with them more if they could, as they are a valuable recruiting tool.

I meant more in a sense that with the Eagles presence these junior teams and their players are getting a free look at the town, and I would bet heavily that just about every NAHL opponent drives their team bus through campus and shows their players Taffy, the banners, etc. It would only take 15 minutes and very few of these NAHL towns have a division 1 program in the same town and since that is the goal of NAHL players I would almost guarantee that most coaches take the opportunity to expose their players to that kind of thing.

To the point that few NAHL destinations have D1 hockey,many of these kids will only see a few NCAA campuses or rinks in their travels, and even fewer of the places they do see they will have the opportunity to get recruited by- Think about it take a kid from Michigan, Minnesota, or Wisconsin for an example, as serious hockey players, their weekends from the time they are about 10 years old are spent at tournaments and such so they are not attending college hockey games, now they may get a chance to play a tournament where a game or two is at the rink of a big state school such as Michigan, MSU, Wisconsin, of Minny or they may be close enough to one of those rinks on a tournament weekend to where the team goes to see one of those teams play but an astronomically small amount of those kids will receive interest let alone a scholarship from those big schools.....and lets be honest, the type of kids those big name schools are chasing are usually not the same kids LSSU even bothers recruiting, Trotman being an anamoly......now they reach the NAHL, they are traveling all over the country every weekend for 2-3 years and if they are lucky, they are receiving interest from as little as one to a large handful of NCAA schools, and most players only end up going on a couple of campus visits as it is, so you have a kid that has a few choices of colleges, LSSU being one of them for the purpose of this example, he has very little familiarity with any of the schools as he has spent his last few years constantly traveling around, the fact that he has already been exposed to the Soo and LSSU even if for only a very short time, may tip the scales in our favor for a kid or two every year.....I realize this serves as a specific example but my point is, we are getting free exposure thanks to the Eagles to literally hundreds of NAHLers, 99% of which would never end up seeing this town of school and out of those hundreds we may start mining some recruits that wouldn't have been here in previous times.

 

[PerkyforPrez]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

I agree with your assessment Anchors but with the back to the attack fund raiser going full steam helps that along other leagues. I think recruiting in the BCHL will help the Lakers get to the next level.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

I agree with your assessment Anchors but with the back to the attack fund raiser going full steam helps that along other leagues. I think recruiting in the BCHL will help the Lakers get to the next level.

Although the additional funding should help the Lakers in their recruiting of USHL and BCHL kids, it's going to take at least another year or two to see any positive results. Recruiting for next season is pretty much done unless there are some early departures. Although we have a BCHL kid lined up (Mitch Nardi), I'm pretty sure the coaches were following him since his time spent in the OJHL. We probably didn't get him as a result of "recruiting in the BCHL". We already had him on our radar before he went to play there. He's the only BCHL or USHL kid committed to LSSU now. It will probably be at least the 2014-15 class before we see any more.

 

[Neil Diamond]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

I've just heard over the past couple of years from multiple Eagles supporters that Roque never had much interest in them and it built up some animosity.

That's a worn-out criticism that has been used for many years, going back to Anzalone's first stint. Some people look for a reason to dislike Laker hockey, and the "They don't look at local kids" line is a favorite one to trot out. It was first used to try and explain why so few homegrown Soo, Mich, kids have ever played on the Lakers; now it is used for that, plus as a way to find excuses why certain Eagles / Indians players don't get much of a look.

Look, there are great hockey people around the Soo, many of whom spend a lot of their own time helping local kids learn the sport of hockey. But there is an elephant in the room up here that no one wants to see: Soo, Mich, has done a terrible job when it comes to sending kids on to elite levels of hockey. Hell, I'm not even talking about the NHL...how about D1 college or the CHL?

And as far as the NHL goes, even Petoskey has a kid there (Jim Slater, Winnipeg Jets). No disrespect to the Petoskey Amateur Hockey Assoc, but come on! The Sault Amateur Hockey Assoc has been around for decades longer. Across the river, Soo, Ont, has sent almost fifty people to the NHL alone, Tyler Kennedy (Pitt) and Matt D'Agostini (STL) being the most recent. Granted, they are a bigger association, but that in no way can account for the wide discrepancy.

The last person Soo, Mich, has sent to the NHL? Cliff Barton, who was born in 1907.

I know I went a bit off topic, but it's about time some people involved with Sault Amateur Hockey, and other local hockey aficionados, quit pointing the finger at Lake State, and start looking in the mirror as to why the Soo has such a poor record of sending kids upward to elite levels of hockey.

 

[Lakerblue]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

That's a worn-out criticism that has been used for many years, going back to Anzalone's first stint. Some people look for a reason to dislike Laker hockey, and the "They don't look at local kids" line is a favorite one to trot out. It was first used to try and explain why so few homegrown Soo, Mich, kids have ever played on the Lakers; now it is used for that, plus as a way to find excuses why certain Eagles / Indians players don't get much of a look.

Look, there are great hockey people around the Soo, many of whom spend a lot of their own time helping local kids learn the sport of hockey. But there is an elephant in the room up here that no one wants to see: Soo, Mich, has done a terrible job when it comes to sending kids on to elite levels of hockey. Hell, I'm not even talking about the NHL...how about D1 college or the CHL?

And as far as the NHL goes, even Petoskey has a kid there (Jim Slater, Winnipeg Jets). No disrespect to the Petoskey Amateur Hockey Assoc, but come on! The Sault Amateur Hockey Assoc has been around for decades longer. Across the river, Soo, Ont, has sent almost fifty people to the NHL alone, Tyler Kennedy (Pitt) and Matt D'Agostini (STL) being the most recent. Granted, they are a bigger association, but that in no way can account for the wide discrepancy.

The last person Soo, Mich, has sent to the NHL? Cliff Barton, who was born in 1907.

I know I went a bit off topic, but it's about time some people involved with Sault Amateur Hockey, and other local hockey aficionados, quit pointing the finger at Lake State, and start looking in the mirror as to why the Soo has such a poor record of sending kids upward to elite levels of hockey.

Sault Area Hockey has some deep rooted problems, and may of those problems are systemic with the Soo and the EUP at all levels of life. There is a strain of personality in this region that is unhappy with any success unless they (or their associates) are the cause of the success. Too many of these people are involved in local youth hockey. There is a great deal of anymosity from some of th more "blue collar" elements in town against LSSU specifically, and college in general. Its not entirely fair to compare Soo, Ontario -- versus Soo, Michigan. Soo, Ontario is a well funded, well supported, community-wide hockey program in line with most Canadian cities. Soo, Ontario, is also 5 times larger than Soo, Michigan, and significatly more economically viable. Soo, Michigan's youth hockey is very wll run for young kids -- excellent programs and excellent development. What happens when the kids get to be 13 or 14 is the problem period. But that is the Soo and Michigan in many ways -- kids do great, and there are great programs, up until they hit the teen-years. Thats when everything goes off the track. Drugs, beer, girls, general-Michigan-based-malaise, all start totake over.

 

[LSSULaker889294]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Why can't the Lakers score when Murdock's in net?

Also the Lakers could be in 10th place tomorrow if they lose.

 

[AnchorsAway]

Sault Area Hockey has some deep rooted problems, and may of those problems are systemic with the Soo and the EUP at all levels of life. There is a strain of personality in this region that is unhappy with any success unless they (or their associates) are the cause of the success. Too many of these people are involved in local youth hockey. There is a great deal of anymosity from some of th more "blue collar" elements in town against LSSU specifically, and college in general. Its not entirely fair to compare Soo, Ontario -- versus Soo, Michigan. Soo, Ontario is a well funded, well supported, community-wide hockey program in line with most Canadian cities. Soo, Ontario, is also 5 times larger than Soo, Michigan, and significatly more economically viable. Soo, Michigan's youth hockey is very wll run for young kids -- excellent programs and excellent development. What happens when the kids get to be 13 or 14 is the problem period. But that is the Soo and Michigan in many ways -- kids do great, and there are great programs, up until they hit the teen-years. Thats when everything goes off the track. Drugs, beer, girls, general-Michigan-based-malaise, all start totake over.

I tend to agree with your sentiments on the whole, the Soo does seem to have a " tantalizing pull into depression" as I've heard someone once put it and there does not seem to be a lot of "do-gooders" in really any facet of life that don't have some sort of angle in it for themselves. I also agree with the early teen struggles preventing some talented kids from keeping their head on straight and making the leap to higher levels of hockey. A perfect example, who shall remain nameless, moved from the Soo downstate to play with Little Caesars midget team a handful of years ago, and was teammates with a very close friend of mine. By my friends admission they were both of about the same skill level.....where are they now? My friend is tied for 2nd on his CCHA team in scoring and the last I saw of the player from the Soo he was working as a cook at a restaurant in the Soo.... One of my LSSU professors touched on this topic one time and in his opinion the military base leaving the area " put this town into a tailspin from which it as never recovered" I haven't been around long enough to speak to that but I would be interested to hear what long time residents make of that statement.

On an entirely different note the Lakers need to either stop taking penalties completely or get their act together when they are down a man because batting 79% on the PK is not getting us anywhere.

 

[Neil Diamond]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Its not entirely fair to compare Soo, Ontario -- versus Soo, Michigan. Soo, Ontario is a well funded, well supported, community-wide hockey program in line with most Canadian cities. Soo, Ontario, is also 5 times larger than Soo, Michigan, and significatly more economically viable.

I agree, and prefaced my comment by noting there are obvious differences. But you tend to make my point: yes, it is better organized, but isn't that what we're lacking here? Why can't we be better organized?

As for your economic comment, I disagree. Soo, Ontario, has a depressed economy that is slowly being killed by cheap steel from India.

 

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

A team that cannot work a powerplay will most likely find itself at the bottom end of league play year in and year out. So many powerplays for the lakers and so many missed goals which simply means so many missed wins.

 

[LSSULaker889294]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

I didn't listen to the game. Was Kapalka really bad or did the defense let him hung out to dry?

Rough weekend for the Lakers and U.P hockey, a combined 0-5-1.

 

[PerkyforPrez]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

It was just plain ugly. The Irish played very well and the Lakers didn't. Very frustrating considering the team played so strong the last two periods Friday.

 

[FRICKER]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

I made a copy of all nine pages of this thread and read over it a couple of times during an early Sunday breakfast and offer the following:

1. Regarding youth hockey and developing talent for college hockey & beyond: It takes a village of dedicated coaches from the learn to skate level through Juniors to fully develop hockey talent, but one bad coach can bring the process to a screeching halt. I learned this first hand when my younger son, Matt (Lake State 1997-2001) made his first trip to Colorado Springs as a Pee Wee. After the first day with
Team USA I received a call from a coach who asked me if I minded if they gave him red, white, and blue USA gloves to replace the baby blue & orange team gloves he came with. I said "no problem, but why?" I was told that USA Hockey had a problem with one Midget AAA coach who was attracting some of the top elite talent to his club and they actually regressed while playing his style of swarm hockey. For years while he cornered the market on talent, few if any players went to D1 programs and those that he talked into taking his players had less than stellar careers. For example, one of his goalies bypassed Juniors and went to my almamater, Clarkson, and quickly crashed & burned, left Clarkson, and finished his college career as a backup at Michigan. Closer to home, many of you may remember Mike Vigilante who alsobypassed Juniors and came right from Midget Major to Lake State. He was holding a full ride scholarship from Bowling Green, and his Midget coach was encouraging him not to go to Juniors. Like a fruit that was picked long before it had rippened, Mike struggled throughout his college career and only in the second half of his Junior year did he finally catch up with where he should have been as a Freshman if he had one or two years Junior experience to draw on.

2. When I moved to Michigan from New Hampshire in the early eighties, I was one of five guys, including one of the three full time employees of the Compuware Hockey Club, that started the HIP program. We had
(51) 3-5 year olds, including Matt, who skated once a week for an hour and a half developing basic skating skills. I credit Matt's solid edges to this program as he didin't play a real game until he was almost six years old (he started HIP when he was three). I followed the group through the youth levels and (17) of the (51) went on to play college hockey and one went on to the NHL.

3. I coached the Compuware Mite Major AAA teamduring the 1985-86 season. This was the only year the MNHL allowed a Mite Major AAA division. We had a series of open tryouts with about (60) at each session. The kids came from all over Southern Michigan. From the roster of (14), only five went on to play college hockey; Matt who went to Lake State, Mike Hamlin who went to Alabama-Huntsville, and three to DIII schools including RIT that was moving from DIII to D1.

With that as background, and from my years of observing youth hockey from HIP through Juniors, I don't find it surprising that the Soo, Michigan area youth program has not produced more elite level players. First,
the most talented players will migrate to big time programs. Even Pat Lafontaine and Mike Madano left the best youth programs in the metro Detroit area to get advanced development in Canada. Also, the political environment for hockey is the Soo is prabably a huge anchor dragging down the long term development of talent, even if it is there.

Finally, unless the rules have changed, the NCAA only allows a coaching staff to scout players four times. I know this first hand as I know of a Head Coach who violated that rule to scout Matt personally after the vote came in 2-2 from his two assistants. Also, while a tournament counts as one scouting, the down side is that the coaches can't talk to a player until his team is finished playing, and if you've ever been around a team when they are leaving a rink, it's like a traveling circus breaking down after the last performance. Having an NAHL team in town should be an advantage and I would think that the Laker coaches & Junior coaches could team up for a one day clinic put on for the youth players in the Soo and surrounding towns. They may never see many local kids play for their programs, but is wise for community relations.

 

[Bill]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

I didn't listen to the game. Was Kapalka really bad or did the defense let him hung out to dry?

Rough weekend for the Lakers and U.P hockey, a combined 0-5-1.

It sounded like the Irish were beating the Lakers to the puck in the Lakers end quite a bit, creating great scoring chances off that, and burying them. i.e. out hustling and out skating the Lakers. And a couple of defensive lapses mixed in. Bill C indicated the Lakers were creating some decent scoring chances, but just not able to finish them off, unlike the Irish. From the broadcast, he sounded pretty frustrated with the Lakers inability to put the puck in the net despite getting good scoring chances. It didn't sound like the Irish were getting great goaltending, just that the Lakers weren't putting the puck where they needed to.

 

[Truth Squad]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

The Roque slide has begun, something you people should be used to up there year after year after year after year after year after year after year after year.

The Truth Is Out There....
TBA
TBA

 

[AnchorsAway]

I made a copy of all nine pages of this thread and read over it a couple of times during an early Sunday breakfast and offer the following:

1. Regarding youth hockey and developing talent for college hockey & beyond: It takes a village of dedicated coaches from the learn to skate level through Juniors to fully develop hockey talent, but one bad coach can bring the process to a screeching halt. I learned this first hand when my younger son, Matt (Lake State 1997-2001) made his first trip to Colorado Springs as a Pee Wee. After the first day with
Team USA I received a call from a coach who asked me if I minded if they gave him red, white, and blue USA gloves to replace the baby blue & orange team gloves he came with. I said "no problem, but why?" I was told that USA Hockey had a problem with one Midget AAA coach who was attracting some of the top elite talent to his club and they actually regressed while playing his style of swarm hockey. For years while he cornered the market on talent, few if any players went to D1 programs and those that he talked into taking his players had less than stellar careers. For example, one of his goalies bypassed Juniors and went to my almamater, Clarkson, and quickly crashed & burned, left Clarkson, and finished his college career as a backup at Michigan. Closer to home, many of you may remember Mike Vigilante who alsobypassed Juniors and came right from Midget Major to Lake State. He was holding a full ride scholarship from Bowling Green, and his Midget coach was encouraging him not to go to Juniors. Like a fruit that was picked long before it had rippened, Mike struggled throughout his college career and only in the second half of his Junior year did he finally catch up with where he should have been as a Freshman if he had one or two years Junior experience to draw on.

2. When I moved to Michigan from New Hampshire in the early eighties, I was one of five guys, including one of the three full time employees of the Compuware Hockey Club, that started the HIP program. We had
(51) 3-5 year olds, including Matt, who skated once a week for an hour and a half developing basic skating skills. I credit Matt's solid edges to this program as he didin't play a real game until he was almost six years old (he started HIP when he was three). I followed the group through the youth levels and (17) of the (51) went on to play college hockey and one went on to the NHL.

3. I coached the Compuware Mite Major AAA teamduring the 1985-86 season. This was the only year the MNHL allowed a Mite Major AAA division. We had a series of open tryouts with about (60) at each session. The kids came from all over Southern Michigan. From the roster of (14), only five went on to play college hockey; Matt who went to Lake State, Mike Hamlin who went to Alabama-Huntsville, and three to DIII schools including RIT that was moving from DIII to D1.

With that as background, and from my years of observing youth hockey from HIP through Juniors, I don't find it surprising that the Soo, Michigan area youth program has not produced more elite level players. First,
the most talented players will migrate to big time programs. Even Pat Lafontaine and Mike Madano left the best youth programs in the metro Detroit area to get advanced development in Canada. Also, the political environment for hockey is the Soo is prabably a huge anchor dragging down the long term development of talent, even if it is there.

Finally, unless the rules have changed, the NCAA only allows a coaching staff to scout players four times. I know this first hand as I know of a Head Coach who violated that rule to scout Matt personally after the vote came in 2-2 from his two assistants. Also, while a tournament counts as one scouting, the down side is that the coaches can't talk to a player until his team is finished playing, and if you've ever been around a team when they are leaving a rink, it's like a traveling circus breaking down after the last performance. Having an NAHL team in town should be an advantage and I would think that the Laker coaches & Junior coaches could team up for a one day clinic put on for the youth players in the Soo and surrounding towns. They may never see many local kids play for their programs, but is wise for community relations.

There is no hard and fast formula for creating an NHL player but for as big of a hockey town as the Soo is and claims itself to be it sure seems like there should be more talent making it out of the Soo and I have to agree that the culture and general demeanor of the town is hindering the development of any talent that there is to the point of producing personality traits that will negatively affect their progress, even if they do start to limb the ladder. It is really a shame.

 

[sm2pk]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

This team isn't going anywhere without a powerplay . Roque knows his team doesn't have the speed or talent or hands to make the powerplay work. Notre Dame scores 4 powerplays to the Lakers zero and that was the game both nights. Bill Crawford has been disgusted for years now with the Lakers failure to score goals as well as everyone else who listens to the games or goes and watches.

Roque will tell you Monday on his show that the team just needs to finish the plays and things will turn around. Roque must think everyone is nuts or have short memories as he has been using that worn out line for 8 years now. the new recruits coming in next year . My money already tells me they won't make the powerplay work and they will be scrambling all season just to score 4 goals. Roque , at least be honest and upfront and tell the audience on your show that the talent that is needed to make things work at this level just isn't there. Everyone likes to bad mouth Anzalone but my god , he at least told it like it was.

 

[jnacc]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

Bill C indicated the Lakers were creating some decent scoring chances, but just not able to finish them off, unlike the Irish. From the broadcast, he sounded pretty frustrated with the Lakers inability to put the puck in the net despite getting good scoring chances. It didn't sound like the Irish were getting great goaltending, just that the Lakers weren't putting the puck where they needed to.

Hasn't the inability to finish been the downfall of this program for the better part of 15 years now? I don't know the program can rectify this problem as elite scorers are becoming hard to find by even the big name schools in college hockey.

There is no hard and fast formula for creating an NHL player but for as big of a hockey town as the Soo is and claims itself to be it sure seems like there should be more talent making it out of the Soo and I have to agree that the culture and general demeanor of the town is hindering the development of any talent that there is to the point of producing personality traits that will negatively affect their progress, even if they do start to limb the ladder. It is really a shame.

Is the Soo really a hockey town though? Twenty years ago I would have said without a doubt but now I'm inclined to believe that people in the Soo view hockey as just one of many sports, holding no special place. Youth registration in the game is down SIGNIFICANTLY! So much so that the soo hockey association has a difficult time in forming house-league teams for all the age groups.

 

[Truth Serum]

Re: LSSU Laker Hockey 2012-2013, Part 2

This team isn't going anywhere without a powerplay . Roque knows his team doesn't have the speed or talent or hands to make the powerplay work. Notre Dame scores 4 powerplays to the Lakers zero and that was the game both nights. Bill Crawford has been disgusted for years now with the Lakers failure to score goals as well as everyone else who listens to the games or goes and watches.

Roque will tell you Monday on his show that the team just needs to finish the plays and things will turn around. Roque must think everyone is nuts or have short memories as he has been using that worn out line for 8 years now. the new recruits coming in next year . My money already tells me they won't make the powerplay work and they will be scrambling all season just to score 4 goals. Roque , at least be honest and upfront and tell the audience on your show that the talent that is needed to make things work at this level just isn't there. Everyone likes to bad mouth Anzalone but my god , he at least told it like it was.

95% of the people on here, and the people in power up there, buy this guys excuses, tactics, and the way he treats certain kids. Then they bad mouth anyone that dares disagree with this administration and point blame everywhere else, when for the past 8 seasons it is starting them right in the face. It is going to be another year of more of the same. Under Roque Lake Superior hasn't finished in the top half of the standings in his entire tenure. He has 0 NCAA appearances, made it to the Joe Louis Arena Championships once, with most of Frank's players and a hot goalie, attendance continues to drop, inconsistent play night to night, and now it is a new conference, some new bricks, and everything else to save the Lake Superior hockey program, when a new coach is the answer.

You people up there are fooling yourselves to think it is otherwise.