Lindenwood University

[sbkbghockey]

http://www.lindenwoodlions.com/news/2010/7/12/GEN_0712102241.aspx

Background for those curious about the school:
Lindenwood University is a private school located in St. Charles MO, (a suburban community NW of St. Louis), around 10,000 students and a large sucessful athletic department in the NAIA and other non NAIA and NCAA sport organizations.

Women's Ice Hockey has won four ACHA Women's Division I titles since the school added hockey in 2003. Including 3 straight from 2007-2010. And a total record of 207-21-9.

NCAA:
Today (July 12, 2010) the school was accepted into the NCAA and will become a full member of Division II in 2013. The school plans to have 26 sports play in the NCAA with Men's Volleyball and Women's Hockey in NCAA DI. (There's been rumors for yrs the Univ wants to join DI eventually but that's a long process and DII is a good step.)

Questions:
I'll be honest, I know quite a bit about men's NCAA hockey and men's ACHA hockey but outside of the basics women's hockey is off my radar. How many schools play independent in NCAA DI women's hockey? Is the WCHA the logical choice for LU as a conference? I know there's the current ban on adding DII/III schools into DI men's hockey, I assume with the news/plan there isn't for DII schools to play up in women's hockey?

 

[gojackets]

Re: Lindenwood University

[
Questions:
I'll be honest, I know quite a bit about men's NCAA hockey and men's ACHA hockey but outside of the basics women's hockey is off my radar. How many schools play independent in NCAA DI women's hockey? Is the WCHA the logical choice for LU as a conference? I know there's the current ban on adding DII/III schools into DI men's hockey, I assume with the news/plan there isn't for DII schools to play up in women's hockey?

Many DII schools play down to the DIII level in hockey. Its a bad location, even for the WCHA. Madison, the closest WCHA town is 375 miles from St. Charles, the furthest(i'm guessing) North Dakota is almost 900 miles. The only other D1 independent is Sacred Heart and they play a mostly D3 schedule. I know Lindenwood has had a lot of exhibition games with the D3 teams in MN/Wisconsin over the past few years, generally the lower level MIAC teams and not fairing that well against them. This year they lost to Bethel and tied St Kates, which is a pretty decent tie. Being D1/D2 will allow them to offer scholarships and maybe pull some kids in, but my guess is it will be a struggle. The club teams don't hold much of a candle to even D3 teams..which can be witnessed with what Lindenwood has done over the years vs the D3 teams.

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Lindenwood University

Many DII schools play down to the DIII level in hockey. Its a bad location, even for the WCHA. Madison, the closest WCHA town is 375 miles from St. Charles, the furthest(i'm guessing) North Dakota is almost 900 miles. The only other D1 independent is Sacred Heart and they play a mostly D3 schedule. I know Lindenwood has had a lot of exhibition games with the D3 teams in MN/Wisconsin over the past few years, generally the lower level MIAC teams and not fairing that well against them. This year they lost to Bethel and tied St Kates, which is a pretty decent tie. Being D1/D2 will allow them to offer scholarships and maybe pull some kids in, but my guess is it will be a struggle. The club teams don't hold much of a candle to even D3 teams..which can be witnessed with what Lindenwood has done over the years vs the D3 teams.

Those stats are similar to the ACHA DI men's side, when the top end ACHA DI teams, like Penn State, play NCAA DIII teams they can compete and hold their own and not blown out against the DIII teams, mostly have competitive losses and/or ties. I assume if they do indeed want to compete as a legit DI team- recruiting will change from recruiting ACHA DI and NCAA III talent to NCAA I level players.

 

[gojackets]

Re: Lindenwood University

Those stats are similar to the ACHA DI men's side, when the top end ACHA DI teams, like Penn State, play NCAA DIII teams they can compete and hold their own and not blown out against the DIII teams, mostly have competitive losses and/or ties. I assume if they do indeed want to compete as a legit DI team- recruiting will change from recruiting ACHA DI and NCAA III talent to NCAA I level players.

IF they don't get into a conference..specifically the WCHA...I would forsee them having an extremely difficult time scheduling a full D1 schedule. It seems back in my brain I remember that an Alaska team was starting a women's hockey program?? If that were the case it would probably help Lindenwood in joining the WCHA...if that Alaska team was joining at the same time.

 

[Hux]

Re: Lindenwood University

The club teams don't hold much of a candle to even D3 teams..which can be witnessed with what Lindenwood has done over the years vs the D3 teams.

Doesn't matter if they were a club team in season X, come season Y when they become a Varsity team 99% of the players from season X are gone and a Varsity level roster is in place. (See BU or Syracuse for recent examples)

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Lindenwood University

IF they don't get into a conference..specifically the WCHA...I would forsee them having an extremely difficult time scheduling a full D1 schedule. It seems back in my brain I remember that an Alaska team was starting a women's hockey program?? If that were the case it would probably help Lindenwood in joining the WCHA...if that Alaska team was joining at the same time.

You read my mind another question I have is if there are any actual plans and/or solid rumors of another school exploring women's hockey? The WCHA has 8 women's team, Lindenwood would be 9th and even numbers are better.

 

[gojackets]

Re: Lindenwood University

You read my mind another question I have is if there are any actual plans and/or solid rumors of another school exploring women's hockey? The WCHA has 8 women's team, Lindenwood would be 9th and even numbers are better.

There were rumors that Adrian wanted to go D1 once the ban was lifted, I don't know if thats true seeing as they only built a 500 seat arena. Thats really about the only other school I know of. Alaska-Fairbanks added a club team for this upcoming year...I'm guessing Alaska-Anchorage would need to add a team for them to go NCAA....just from a financial, traveling standpoint.

 

[123kidd]

Re: Lindenwood University

There was also a rumor going around that Moorhead State University in Minnesota was going have have a DI team soon. I don't see that happening unless a new facility is in the plans.

 

[Larch]

Re: Lindenwood University

There was also a rumor going around that Moorhead State University in Minnesota was going have have a DI team soon. I don't see that happening unless a new facility is in the plans.

They have already said they would use the UP Center in Fargo. The Sports Center in Moorhead would be more than sufficient for Women's hockey and would actually be a nice play to play.

The last article I read about them said that they were still thinking about it and it was still in the plans, but no timetable was given. My thoughts and a few others that I have talked to; they won't go until there is a viable conference for them to get into. The last push was because the WCHA opened the doors for expansion, and they had some thoughts that they could get in...which wasn't realistically going to happen.

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Lindenwood University

They have already said they would use the UP Center in Fargo. The Sports Center in Moorhead would be more than sufficient for Women's hockey and would actually be a nice play to play.

The last article I read about them said that they were still thinking about it and it was still in the plans, but no timetable was given. My thoughts and a few others that I have talked to; they won't go until there is a viable conference for them to get into. The last push was because the WCHA opened the doors for expansion, and they had some thoughts that they could get in...which wasn't realistically going to happen.

Moorhead talked about the men's side a few seasons ago too I think. With the time it takes for LU to transfer to the NCAA there's some time for another school to set a timetable. Indy schools don't seem to thrive in NCAA Hockey as much as some of the other sports (probably b/c there's so few of them). The smart thing for LU is to talk to some schools like Alaska and Moorhead or if there's other schools interested and applied to join a hockey conference (most likely WCHA) together.

 

[Larch]

Re: Lindenwood University

Moorhead talked about the men's side a few seasons ago too I think. With the time it takes for LU to transfer to the NCAA there's some time for another school to set a timetable. Indy schools don't seem to thrive in NCAA Hockey as much as some of the other sports (probably b/c there's so few of them). The smart thing for LU is to talk to some schools like Alaska and Moorhead or if there's other schools interested and applied to join a hockey conference (most likely WCHA) together.

For the men? I think part of the reason Moorhead backed off was that the WCHA probably told them that they would not be taking brand new teams. If you are talking about women, then I can maybe see that, but I'm not sure if the new team thing would be in play or not. One thought I've had on that though is, would the WCHA want to allow a womens team in again if they don't have intention of ever taking the men's program? I know that doesn't sound good, but if a school has their foot in the door, it might be harder to keep the men out. The athletic dept. is in such a disarray that I don't see MSU-M starting a women's team without a men's to support it. I think it's cool SU did it and LU is going to do it, even Wayne State kept there's, which is fantastic, but I don't see MSU-M following suit. Stranger things have happened though.

I posted it on your club team thread too, but what about LU going into the CHA? I know it's going to be a pretty good hike for travel, but there's room and it would give the CHA teams more games they don't have to worry about scheduling...although I honestly have no idea if it's a problem now. Maybe at this point Ohio State should jump ship from the WCHA and join the CHA and LU can slide in there, but that brings me back to my first paragraph.

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Lindenwood University

For the men? I think part of the reason Moorhead backed off was that the WCHA probably told them that they would not be taking brand new teams. If you are talking about women, then I can maybe see that, but I'm not sure if the new team thing would be in play or not. One thought I've had on that though is, would the WCHA want to allow a womens team in again if they don't have intention of ever taking the men's program? I know that doesn't sound good, but if a school has their foot in the door, it might be harder to keep the men out. The athletic dept. is in such a disarray that I don't see MSU-M starting a women's team without a men's to support it. I think it's cool SU did it and LU is going to do it, even Wayne State kept there's, which is fantastic, but I don't see MSU-M following suit. Stranger things have happened though.

I posted it on your club team thread too, but what about LU going into the CHA? I know it's going to be a pretty good hike for travel, but there's room and it would give the CHA teams more games they don't have to worry about scheduling...although I honestly have no idea if it's a problem now. Maybe at this point Ohio State should jump ship from the WCHA and join the CHA and LU can slide in there, but that brings me back to my first paragraph.

The CHA is possible, the only reason I say that is because LU looked into the CHA for both men's and women's teams a few years ago. Travel would be huge but stranger things have happend in NCAA conferences

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Lindenwood University

Latest is the LU is working on some renovations to the LU Ice Arena from LU Hockey Twitter:

"New boards and in ice logos for main arena."

"The Lady Lions locker room is getting a major face-lift as the program readies for NCAA DI play, included is new video room and workout room."

"Also the Men's [ACHA] DII [JV] team is also having a new locker room built for them"

 

[CammieBuckeye]

Re: Lindenwood University

I played Lindenwood for 2 years in ACHA Women's DI. They are good. I always thought they could go NCAA DIII. They just murdered everyone in ACHA. When I played them, they had a lot of Canadians and a few Europeans too. So recruiting doesn't seem to be an issue.

I don't know much about what the conferences want to do, expand or not, or whatever. But I can't see Ohio State jumping to the CHA and leaving the best conference in women's hockey (WCHA). Watch out for OSU this year, by the way.

 

[RIT Fan]

Re: Lindenwood University

I don't know much about what the conferences want to do, expand or not, or whatever. But I can't see Ohio State jumping to the CHA and leaving the best conference in women's hockey (WCHA). Watch out for OSU this year, by the way.

From a budget/travel standpoint the move would make sense. The WCHA is definitely the best, but the CHA is closing the gap. And I would think OSU would have a better shot at getting to the NCAA's in the CHA, but would have to get past Mercyhurst first.

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Lindenwood University

I'm with CammieBuckeye on this one, I don't see OSU moving to the CHA (although if they did it could open the door to LU to either join with them or take their place in the WCHA.)

The only way I could see OSU leaving the WCHA (remember they play other Big 10 teams in MN and WIS) is if more teams like Michigan and Michigan State, Penn State, added women's hockey and joined the CHA.

 

[CammieBuckeye]

Re: Lindenwood University

I'm with CammieBuckeye on this one, I don't see OSU moving to the CHA (although if they did it could open the door to LU to either join with them or take their place in the WCHA.)

The only way I could see OSU leaving the WCHA (remember they play other Big 10 teams in MN and WIS) is if more teams like Michigan and Michigan State, Penn State, added women's hockey and joined the CHA.

I can see the WCHA letting Lindenwood in before Ohio State leaves for the CHA. It would probably make OSU's road to the NCAA's a lot easier and Mercyhurst would suck to deal with lol. But with the WCHA being in Big Ten country and the quality of the conference, I just can't see them leaving. I'm pretty sure Barto wants to beat the best to be one of the best. lol.

And on a side note, Michigan will more than likely not have a women's NCAA program as long as Red Berenson is involved with the men's team. I've played the Michigan, Michigan State, and Penn State women's club teams. There is enough talent in Michigan to start up a NCAA program. But there are a lot of issues they need to overcome first, like Red Berenson and probably Title IX in a lot of places.

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Lindenwood University

I can see the WCHA letting Lindenwood in before Ohio State leaves for the CHA. It would probably make OSU's road to the NCAA's a lot easier and Mercyhurst would suck to deal with lol. But with the WCHA being in Big Ten country and the quality of the conference, I just can't see them leaving. I'm pretty sure Barto wants to beat the best to be one of the best. lol.

And on a side note, Michigan will more than likely not have a women's NCAA program as long as Red Berenson is involved with the men's team. I've played the Michigan, Michigan State, and Penn State women's club teams. There is enough talent in Michigan to start up a NCAA program. But there are a lot of issues they need to overcome first, like Red Berenson and probably Title IX in a lot of places.

yeah I don't OSU is going anywhere. I disagree that the WCHA would let LU in without OSU or one of their teams leaving OR by adding a team with LU to keep an even number.

Considering Red Berenson is about 150 years old his involvement with men's hockey is prob getting close to the end. Michigan and Michigan State would have access to lots homegrown talent (just like the men's teams). And would certainly help women's hockey in general and CHA as a conf. Title IX could be an easy fix at Michigan-replace women's water polo with women's hockey. It would save travel considering the WP team has to travel to the West Coast for the majority of games.

 

[CammieBuckeye]

Re: Lindenwood University

yeah I don't OSU is going anywhere. I disagree that the WCHA would let LU in without OSU or one of their teams leaving OR by adding a team with LU to keep an even number.

Considering Red Berenson is about 150 years old his involvement with men's hockey is prob getting close to the end. Michigan and Michigan State would have access to lots homegrown talent (just like the men's teams). And would certainly help women's hockey in general and CHA as a conf. Title IX could be an easy fix at Michigan-replace women's water polo with women's hockey. It would save travel considering the WP team has to travel to the West Coast for the majority of games.

Lmao. Good idea with the Title IX fix at Michigan. Anytime we can get the Ohio State-Michigan rivalry going in any sport, I'm up for it.

 

[sbkbghockey]

Re: Lindenwood University

Lmao. Good idea with the Title IX fix at Michigan. Anytime we can get the Ohio State-Michigan rivalry going in any sport, I'm up for it.

(I haven’t been on in a while) I did check the other day with Michigan's Title IX, they're about even in scholarships so they would have to either replace a women's sport with hockey or add another men's sport. (probably would be Lacrosse since their MCLA lacrosse team dominates like Lindenwood in the ACHA.)

As much as some people don't like to admit it, college sports is big business, the last few years we've seen declining to at best, steady athletic departments. With the economy turning around a bit hopefully schools like LU can show that sports like women's hockey are nice additions into athletic departments.