Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

[ADK11]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

I have no idea where this will go if anywhere. I do agree that an on campus facility seems impractical without further campus expansion. The idea of participating in a "renaissance" downtown is appealing as Wicked alluded, but it looks like that ship has sailed. Anyway, if a big benefactor steps up, I think somehow it could happen.

Supposedly they are still planning what to do with the City Center in downtown, but I don't think there is even an inkling of putting a rink in it..

 

[Rolevio]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

Well if, for the sake of this thread, we ignore the two largest issues - money and institutional support - then the obvious question becomes where?

If memory serves, 4 or 5 years ago the U admin. proposed building an off campus rink (I think renovating the former Center City rink was one idea). This idea was submitted to for student approval and was summarily shot down. IMO, this was as dumb a decision as any admin. could make - that being allowing one class of students to dictate the future home of the hockey program. Now, 4 (or 5 ) years later those kids are long gone and the Dutch are still stuck playing in a DOT rock salt bunker.

Just imagine if they had moved downtown -- U fans would very likely now be playing games in the newly gentrified strip of Broadway near Proctors, with plenty of nearby parking, restaurants and watering holes.

9 years ago they wanted to build a new arena I believe enar the corner of Erie and Union. That never got too far and was probably doomed anyway, but environmental concerns with the property killed it.

13 years ago, Hull wanted to build a rink jointly with the city (I forget the location now) and that rink was all set to be built until the students (including both hockey teams) revolted and got the school to scrap the plans. The main complaint was the distance from campus and students didn't want to walk there. I want to say the location was somewhere near downtown, so close to campus. Although downtown Schenectady in the mid 90's...

Too bad because I think a major rehab of Messa is problematic at best. The last rehab resulted in lost capacity, and improved seating space, etc. in the same footprint would reduce it even more. And there is no way to make a circle bigger except by going up (adding an upper deck) which would probably cost close to a brand new facility and would make the place look like a farm silo..

\

The last "major" rehab was a just a skeleton of what they originally planned until the funding got messed up last second. They were actually going to go the complete opposite of hat you envisioned though. Instead of going up, the rehab plan was to go down and drop the ice surface to the abandoned curling area in the basement.



I know I am in the minority on this, but I love bench seating in college arenas. I think all of them should have at least some bench seating even if it's limited to just the upper seating. Though the benches at Messa/Achilles are way way too close together and it's no fun watching a game with a knee in your back. (Which is why I always used to sit top row where WRUC now broadcasts)

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

Qpac's rink/bouncy ball court cost $52M so could probably divide that by 2 to get a rough estimate of a new ~3000 seat facility - definitely at least $15-20M. But Union93's points are probably valid that unless a BIG donor antes up, it won't happen anytime soon. As for location, I've always thought across from Alumni Gym would work and could then bulldoze the Igloo for more parking..

They would probably have to return Frank Messa''s $2M. I think Qpac has the only rink in the ECAC which sold naming rights commercially. Does anyone have an idea how much TD Bank paid or pays for that? I say we go to Price Chopper and see if they want to get back into hockey.

 

[GRussinko]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

Supposedly they are still planning what to do with the City Center in downtown, but I don't think there is even an inkling of putting a rink in it..

To the best of my knowledge, the plans for the arena space include a YMCA, no rink anywhere in sight. There is a bunch of space still open in the building, but for the most part it's all commercial/office space.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

I know I am in the minority on this, but I love bench seating in college arenas. I think all of them should have at least some bench seating even if it's limited to just the upper seating. Though the benches at Messa/Achilles are way way too close together and it's no fun watching a game with a knee in your back. (Which is why I always used to sit top row where WRUC now broadcasts)

I'm not against bleacher seating per se, but the Achilles layout is not only downright uncomfortable but I think dangerous as well. The risers are way too high and can lead to a falldown hazard IMO, especially for the young, elderly or infirm. I doubt if they meet current code. Also, as usual when there is a capacity crowd, this weekend had fans sitting in the aisles which is a definite safety hazard. The security officers spend their time keeping people away from the glass but I've never seen one try to keep the aisles clear.

 

[GreatLakerMohawk]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

I'm not against bleacher seating per se, but the Achilles layout is not only downright uncomfortable but I think dangerous as well. The risers are way too high and can lead to a falldown hazard IMO, especially for the young, elderly or infirm. I doubt if they meet current code. Also, as usual when there is a capacity crowd, this weekend had fans sitting in the aisles which is a definite safety hazard. The security officers spend their time keeping people away from the glass but I've never seen one try to keep the aisles clear.

It doesn't help matters when the ushers alternate between being section nazis and yukking it up with co-workers. I don't recall seeing them do too much work up in the regular seating to make sure folks can find their way or keep things in check.

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

I know I am in the minority on this, but I love bench seating in college arenas. I think all of them should have at least some bench seating even if it's limited to just the upper seating. Though the benches at Messa/Achilles are way way too close together and it's no fun watching a game with a knee in your back. (Which is why I always used to sit top row where WRUC now broadcasts)

This problem (the bench seating being designed for Ethiopians circa 1987) plus the seat nazis yelling at you to SIT DOWN in those cramped seats. The kind of thing that just makes you root for the game to be over more than anything else.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

It doesn't help matters when the ushers alternate between being section nazis and yukking it up with co-workers. I don't recall seeing them do too much work up in the regular seating to make sure folks can find their way or keep things in check.

I've never actually seen an usher per se and there is often confusion in seating when new fans come in who happen to be the people you want to come back. Even in the new Yankee Stadium they had people walking around with "Can I help you signs?" The security officers are generally on the rude to disinterested side, particularly that woman whose name I don't know. She usually stands by the referee's entrance and yells at me when I am standing close to the end glass, which I like to do from time to time. I admit however that I am a particularly sensitive individual.

 

[GreatLakerMohawk]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

Wholin - I was at the first game of the year against Maine and I bought a "box seat" because I hate the bench seating, and this particular usher (read: protector of the stairs) kept insisting that I wanted to enter in a different stairwell and I had to keep telling her that my seat was right in her section. It was just silly, but she was too busy talking to her co-workers and Union regulars to care. Small sample size I know, at least for this year, but I've run into these problems there before with the staff. Seems like its not uncommon though from what you're saying.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

Wholin - I was at the first game of the year against Maine and I bought a "box seat" because I hate the bench seating, and this particular usher (read: protector of the stairs) kept insisting that I wanted to enter in a different stairwell and I had to keep telling her that my seat was right in her section. It was just silly, but she was too busy talking to her co-workers and Union regulars to care. Small sample size I know, at least for this year, but I've run into these problems there before with the staff. Seems like its not uncommon though from what you're saying.

I think I may be overreacting a bit and don't want to paint a totally negative picture. I do think that many rinks have volunteer ushers or greeters and maybe some thought should be given to this at Messa, if big crowds become the norm. They should definitely do so in the new rink.

 

[UnionTDX04]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

I usually don't post much but I had to add another story about the seating problems on Saturday night.

I was first in line on Wed @ 10am to buy faculty/staff tickets and bought 4 tickets in section 11, row 9 seats 5-8. I arrived at the game around 6:20 and, much to my shock, a camera and stand had been erected in rows 9 through 12 or so right where our seats would be. Of course we then sat elsewhere and were then yelled at for not being in our correct seats. This is ludicrous... They knew this was a televised game requiring multiple cameras. Why the hell would you sell tickets to the spot where you set this camera up, especially for a sell-out? I also had a friend and his pregnant wife who were rudely asked to move because they were in someone else's seat (their seats were in the camera area) so the security guard made them move 7 rows up. Smart move with someone who is pregnant.

For most every game everyone just sits where they want to. The ticket office should move to general admissions and first come, first served seating. No one is ever in their proper seat and the ushers/campus safety do a horrible job enforcing it.

Other than that, these forums are always entertaining and I am hoping for a CD sweep this weekend. Fear the District!

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

I usually don't post much but I had to add another story about the seating problems on Saturday night.

I was first in line on Wed @ 10am to buy faculty/staff tickets and bought 4 tickets in section 11, row 9 seats 5-8. I arrived at the game around 6:20 and, much to my shock, a camera and stand had been erected in rows 9 through 12 or so right where our seats would be. Of course we then sat elsewhere and were then yelled at for not being in our correct seats. This is ludicrous... They knew this was a televised game requiring multiple cameras. Why the hell would you sell tickets to the spot where you set this camera up, especially for a sell-out? I also had a friend and his pregnant wife who were rudely asked to move because they were in someone else's seat (their seats were in the camera area) so the security guard made them move 7 rows up. Smart move with someone who is pregnant.

For most every game everyone just sits where they want to. The ticket office should move to general admissions and first come, first served seating. No one is ever in their proper seat and the ushers/campus safety do a horrible job enforcing it.

Other than that, these forums are always entertaining and I am hoping for a CD sweep this weekend. Fear the District!

There really is no excuse for not blocking out those seats. This will not happen in the new rink.

 

[ADK11]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

The last "major" rehab was a just a skeleton of what they originally planned until the funding got messed up last second. They were actually going to go the complete opposite of hat you envisioned though. Instead of going up, the rehab plan was to go down and drop the ice surface to the abandoned curling area in the basement.

Interesting idea, I hadn't thought of that. Lynah is actually kinda built like that. And of course could call it "The Pit" or "The Bunker" .

They would probably have to return Frank Messa''s $2M. I think Qpac has the only rink in the ECAC which sold naming rights commercially. Does anyone have an idea how much TD Bank paid or pays for that? I say we go to Price Chopper and see if they want to get back into hockey.

Great idea!! And the winners of chuck-a-puck would get a free ham and a year's supply of aluminum foil .

 

[GreatLakerMohawk]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

Don't most people call it a pit anyway?

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

Don't most people call it a pit anyway?

Arm or snake?

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

College Hockey News included the building of new college hockey arenas in its top 10 college hockey stories of the decade and pointed to the obvious advantages enjoyed by programs with new facilities. It also highlighted the fact that the ECAC hadn't built a new facility after Cheel in 1991 until Qpac did so. Implied is that part of the reason for the ECAC's decline relative to other conferences is due to its antiquated facilities.

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2010/01/18_partii.php

 

[Red Cloud]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

College Hockey News included the building of new college hockey arenas in its top 10 college hockey stories of the decade and pointed to the obvious advantages enjoyed by programs with new facilities. It also highlighted the fact that the ECAC hadn't built a new facility after Cheel in 1991 until Qpac did so. Implied is that part of the reason for the ECAC's decline relative to other conferences is due to its antiquated facilities.

http://www.collegehockeynews.com/news/2010/01/18_partii.php

It's definitely a fair argument. I doubt SLU, Princeton, or Yale are interested in new facilities any time soon, but I would argue that RPI, Union, and Brown especially could use some new digs.

 

[Wholin1]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

It's definitely a fair argument. I doubt SLU, Princeton, or Yale are interested in new facilities any time soon, but I would argue that RPI, Union, and Brown especially could use some new digs.

I've never been to Brown or Princeton. From what I've seen the Yale Whale looks like it had a nice overhaul. RPI at least can handle a decent sized crowd. I'm not looking for luxury, just some of the basics that fans should expect of a D-1 facility.

 

[redhead18]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

I would argue that RPI, Union, and Brown especially could use some new digs.

It would have been a nice addition to go along with the new athletic village.

 

[GRussinko]

Re: Let's No Messa round, Time for a New Union Rink

It would have been a nice addition to go along with the new athletic village.

Heck, it would have been a nice alternative to the new athletic village. A new rink and parking garage, and forget the rest of it.