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Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

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Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

leswp1 said:
NPR did a big thing on this the other day . They hauled the man out of the room, the woman went wild kicking and striking the staff trying to get to him. She was calling him by her husbands name. Ended up that the DON and some other person in leadership were fired. The man was banished and his family had to travel 2 hrs to visit him. They countered that with stories from a place in New York that trained staff to deal with intimacy as a natural part of life and followed that with the little factoid that Sandra Day O'Connor's hubby had a relationship with another woman in his NH. Fascinating piece on the ethics, morals, etc.
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Must spread rep.... :(

Medical ethics was one of my favorite classes in medical school. Also the class I received the best grade in (not sure if that is a good thing or not ;) )

Always an interesting topic. Thanks for the additional story!
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

WisconsinWildcard said:
Must spread rep.... :(

Medical ethics was one of my favorite classes in medical school. Also the class I received the best grade in (not sure if that is a good thing or not ;) )

Always an interesting topic. Thanks for the additional story!
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I love it too. Fascinating. People like to give simple answers without thinking through all the ramifications. Medicine is full of dilemmas
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Bob Gray said:
I wouldn't call it a slippery slope. I'd call it consistency. But, probably not a bad idea to bet against consistency.
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We have abundance of laws (and rightfully so, obviously) that do not permit adults to engage in sexual activities with minors, be it of hetero or homosexual nature. What about the legalization (or lack thereof) of gay marriage in a given jurisdiction changes the consistency of those laws?
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

XYZ said:
We have abundance of laws (and rightfully so, obviously) that do not permit adults to engage in sexual activities with minors, be it of hetero or homosexual nature. What about the legalization (or lack thereof) of gay marriage in a given jurisdiction changes the consistency of those laws?
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People shouldn't be denied rights. Or so I've heard about a million times. Of course what a right is, is a key question. The whole spin that gay marriage is a civil right, while not very well founded, was a brilliant PR move that is paying major dividends.
 
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Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Bob Gray said:
People shouldn't be denied rights. Or so I've heard about a million times. Of course what a right is, is a key question. The whole spin that gay marriage is a civil right, while not very well founded, was a brilliant PR move that is paying major dividends.
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People don't have the right to commit crimes. Your premise that this would get any support is silly.

It's the typical "If a man can marry a man, what's next? A man can marry a dog?" argument.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Gurtholfin said:
People don't have the right to commit crimes. Your premise that this would get any support is silly.

It's the typical "If a man can marry a man, what's next? A man can marry a dog?" argument.
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Uh, yah, lots of people have seriously wanted to marry a dog. The logical next step would be something like legalized polygamy, then we'd see where it goes from there. But, the logic of not being able to draw an "arbitrary" line has to play out to its logical conclusion. Particularly in the case of polygamy, assuming it only involves consenting adults.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Gurtholfin said:
People don't have the right to commit crimes. Your premise that this would get any support is silly.

It's the typical "If a man can marry a man, what's next? A man can marry a dog?" argument.
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Actually, a woman has married a roller coaster. I put a link to it a while back.
 
Bob Gray said:
Uh, yah, lots of people have seriously wanted to marry a dog. The logical next step would be something like legalized polygamy, then we'd see where it goes from there. But, the logic of not being able to draw an "arbitrary" line has to play out to its logical conclusion. Particularly in the case of polygamy, assuming it only involves consenting adults.
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Actually it affects more than the adults. Polygamy can lead to one man having 30 children. Few people can support that many kids, which is why most families are at 2.5 kids. ;) Who gets to support those kids then? Why the taxpayers of course. As a marriage is sanctioned under the law, the govt that sets the law can decide what's in its interests. Obviously if one family wants to have that many kids on their own (those annoying Arkansas hicks the Duggars for example) that's their right but the state has a vested interest in not having a million Warren Jeffs running around trying to sire their own race behind the walls of a secret compound.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Rover said:
Actually it affects more than the adults. Polygamy can lead to one man having 30 children. Few people can support that many kids, which is why most families are at 2.5 kids. ;) Who gets to support those kids then? Why the taxpayers of course. As a marriage is sanctioned under the law, the govt that sets the law can decide that's in its interests. Obviously if one family wants to have that many kids on their own (those annoying Arkansas hicks the Duggars for example) that's their right but the state has a vested interest in not having a million Warren Jeffs running around trying to sire their own race behind the walls of a secret compound.
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Some men already have that many children. Ever seen the Maury show? ;)
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Rover said:
Actually it affects more than the adults. Polygamy can lead to one man having 30 children. Few people can support that many kids, which is why most families are at 2.5 kids. ;) Who gets to support those kids then? Why the taxpayers of course. As a marriage is sanctioned under the law, the govt that sets the law can decide what's in its interests. Obviously if one family wants to have that many kids on their own (those annoying Arkansas hicks the Duggars for example) that's their right but the state has a vested interest in not having a million Warren Jeffs running around trying to sire their own race behind the walls of a secret compound.
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In case you didn't notice, people crazy enough to try to start their own race, behind the walls of their private compound don't give a flying **** about the laws of the United States of America.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Rover said:
Actually it affects more than the adults. Polygamy can lead to one man having 30 children. Few people can support that many kids, which is why most families are at 2.5 kids. ;) Who gets to support those kids then? Why the taxpayers of course. As a marriage is sanctioned under the law, the govt that sets the law can decide what's in its interests. Obviously if one family wants to have that many kids on their own (those annoying Arkansas hicks the Duggars for example) that's their right but the state has a vested interest in not having a million Warren Jeffs running around trying to sire their own race behind the walls of a secret compound.
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But if it's a right, then your concerns about taxpayer support and all shouldn't be able to impinge on it. We're talking about peoples' freedom to be who they are and all that after all, aren't we? Sounds awful big brotherish, but I guess that's ok with some people as long as big brother makes decisions they like.

It is a little entertaining to see folks who pushed for gay marriage arguing against allowing marriage and recognition for other non-traditional relationship structures.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

XYZ said:
We have abundance of laws (and rightfully so, obviously) that do not permit adults to engage in sexual activities with minors, be it of hetero or homosexual nature. What about the legalization (or lack thereof) of gay marriage in a given jurisdiction changes the consistency of those laws?
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Not just sex. There are lots of arbitrary age cutoffs codified in law (drinking, voting, serving in office, etc). Bob's argument is "If we repleal Prohibition, then we'll have to let 4-year-olds have keggers just for the sake of consistency." Well, 80 years on, and we're still waiting for someone to propose a law to achieve that consistency - how long do you suppose we should wait, Bob?

Bob's argument is as nonsensical as if I came to the conclusion, "Since Bob thinks two men should not be allowed to marry, then to be consistent, he must believe that no one should be allowed to get married." Gay marriage proponents want to allow marriage for some, but not for all, just as gay marriage opponents want to outlaw marriage for some, but not for all.
 
Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Bob Gray said:
It is a little entertaining to see folks who pushed for gay marriage arguing against allowing marriage and recognition for other non-traditional relationship structures.
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What standard are you getting said tradition from? How far do you go back? Who's culture?
 
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