Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

[Bob Gray]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

No! No!! No!!! No!!!! No!!!!! No!!!!!! No!!!!!!!

http://www.greeleygazette.com/press/?p=11517

Entirely predictable. This will gradually be loosened up over time.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Entirely predictable. This will gradually be loosened up over time.

I disagree. We need to protect minors from others, and to some extent, from themselves. They've not yet developed emotionally or intellectually, and the NAMBLA crowd could absolutely go around destroying these children's mental health, let alone any potential physical ramifications.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

I disagree. We need to protect minors from others, and to some extent, from themselves. They've not yet developed emotionally or intellectually, and the NAMBLA crowd could absolutely go around destroying these children's mental health, let alone any potential physical ramifications.

You misunderstand. I'm not supportive of the direction this will go, just the opposite. But that doesn't mean I can't see the writing on the wall.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

You misunderstand. I'm not supportive of the direction this will go, just the opposite. But that doesn't mean I can't see the writing on the wall.

I understood your intent. I'm just saying that I do not think the public will yield to the pedophiles. If anything, we'll mount up a fiercer defense against them. We already see it happening with the statutory rape situations in schools. These things have been going on for a long time in schools, but only in the recent past has it really been coming to the masses via news reports. People have been outraged by this, yet as a kid a lot of us (not all) had thoughts about that one really cute teacher fresh out of school. Back then we didn't understand everything that could come of such a relationship, but now, as adults, we know so much more and can see the problems.

Now, with the NAMBLA crowd you ratchet up every one of those concerns a notch or six, and the public will react in a most vociferous manner. This is one of those times where everyone will say that we need to protect our children.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Just wanted to make sure you understood what I meant, and didn't mean.

Even if you are correct, it'd be interesting to see how the courts differentiated what relationships are ok or not ok given recent developments.

 

[French Rage]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Just wanted to make sure you understood what I meant, and didn't mean.

Even if you are correct, it'd be interesting to see how the courts differentiated what relationships are ok or not ok given recent developments.

Well, the thing with two consenting adults is they both need to be adults, so that makes it pretty simple.

 

[unofan]

Did you read the part of the article where it says republicans tried to add a stipulation that pedophilia was not an orientation and democrats defeated that part of it and proudly claimed pedophiles deserve equal protection as a sexual orientation?

So does that mean I get to attribute every bullshiat statement that comes out of steve king's or ted cruz's mouths to the entire republican party?

Beyond that, even if pedophilia is technically deemed to be an orientation, it doesn't change the fact that minors cannot legally consent, and it is still illegal to be sexually involved with a minor in all states. And things like daycares would have legitimate reasons for not hiring them.

This is a bullshiat scare tactic article, something I'm guessing came from some ultra-right wing nutjob. Oh look, I was right. He's a WND author. http://mobile.wnd.com/author/jackmino/

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

So does that mean I get to attribute every bullshiat statement that comes out of steve king's or ted cruz's mouths to the entire republican party?

Beyond that, even if pedophilia is technically deemed to be an orientation, it doesn't change the fact that minors cannot legally consent, and it is still illegal to be sexually involved with a minor in all states. And things like daycares would have legitimate reasons for not hiring them.

This is a bullshiat scare tactic article, something I'm guessing came from some ultra-right wing nutjob. Oh look, I was right. He's a WND author. http://mobile.wnd.com/author/jackmino/

Why are you asking permission? You do that already, despite being unfounded.

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Well, the thing with two consenting adults is they both need to be adults, so that makes it pretty simple.

There's a lot more nuance than you're letting on. For example, various states allow people under 18 to marry.

 

[burd]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

I was once on a bus ride traveling through the countryside when one passenger who had seen a cow was going on about how wicked and dangerous cows were and how this was dangerous country. It turned out his parents or brother or somebody had passed on scary stories about a cow in his formative years that was motivating his conversation. We were not driving through cow country--it was all cropland--but this one cow gave him a basis to see it that way. Of course, an argument arose between him and another person who was fine with cows but had a thing about how irrigation was bad for the land and led to all kinds of health problems (don't ask me how--he had some reasons) and that this would be a risky place to live because he had seen one of those circle sprinklers on one of the farms. Turns out, that was an isolated attempt at irrigation in this area and that the farmers rarely irrigated there, but it tripped his trigger and drove the conversation for him. Silly argument.

I was raised to detest irrational, emotion driven ways of problem solving, and I concluded that this part of the country and the people who traveled through it was destined for failure, if not catastrophe, because it was in control of idiots.

Turns out, we were driving through a very special and unique area in which there were beautiful, naked women everywhere in the fields and in front of houses. We just didn't notice them for the cow, irrigation sprinkler, and two idiots. Now, I'm a woman, so I probably wouldn't have noticed anyway. I AM gay, so you would think that would have made a difference, but I have just never been taught by experience or by my forebears to fear gay women so I guess that might explain my blindness.

But those farkin' idiots--that's the problem. And cows, to be honest. I had heard those stories too.

 

[ericredaxe]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

But that doesn't mean I can't see the writing on the wall.

I don't buy the slippery slope argument which I think you are alluding to here. I agree more with St Clown here. I'd say there is about zero chance that gay marriage being legal leads to adults marrying children / animals / plants or wherever else someone could dream up.

 

[Rover]

I was once on a bus ride traveling through the countryside when one passenger who had seen a cow was going on about how wicked and dangerous cows were and how this was dangerous country. It turned out his parents or brother or somebody had passed on scary stories about a cow in his formative years that was motivating his conversation. We were not driving through cow country--it was all cropland--but this one cow gave him a basis to see it that way. Of course, an argument arose between him and another person who was fine with cows but had a thing about how irrigation was bad for the land and led to all kinds of health problems (don't ask me how--he had some reasons) and that this would be a risky place to live because he had seen one of those circle sprinklers on one of the farms. Turns out, that was an isolated attempt at irrigation in this area and that the farmers rarely irrigated there, but it tripped his trigger and drove the conversation for him. Silly argument.

I was raised to detest irrational, emotion driven ways of problem solving, and I concluded that this part of the country and the people who traveled through it was destined for failure, if not catastrophe, because it was in control of idiots.

Turns out, we were driving through a very special and unique area in which there were beautiful, naked women everywhere in the fields and in front of houses. We just didn't notice them for the cow, irrigation sprinkler, and two idiots. Now, I'm a woman, so I probably wouldn't have noticed anyway. I AM gay, so you would think that would have made a difference, but I have just never been taught by experience or by my forebears to fear gay women so I guess that might explain my blindness.

But those farkin' idiots--that's the problem. And cows, to be honest. I had heard those stories too.

I grew up with a farm down the street and let me tell ya, those things stink to high hell. All these idiots in Cleveland who like killing people and stashing their bodies until the stench gives them away should just move out to a dairy farm and nobody would be able to tell the difference. Don't get me started on when they'd bust out of their pen (only about twice a week) and I'd be flying aroung the corner on my street only to find 15 cows in the middle of the road that I'd have to dodge like my life depended on it (because it probably did!)

 

[burd]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

I don't buy the slippery slope argument which I think you are alluding to here. I agree more with St Clown here. I'd say there is about zero chance that gay marriage being legal leads to adults marrying children / animals / plants or wherever else someone could dream up.

Maybe not, but gay marriage could easily lead to more heteros yelling a lot during sex. And I'm not talking about nice things.

 

[FreshFish]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Well, the thing with two consenting adults is they both need to be adults, so that makes it pretty simple.

I wish!!

I can't remember where I saw it, but the other day there was a story about two people in what used to be called an "old folks' home" (I forget the PC term I'm supposed to use in these enlightened times). They had dementia and engaged in sexual intercourse, and people on the staff were worried about whether they had the capacity to form intent.

If you are horny you want to have sex even if you also have dementia: but does that mean you are a "consenting" adult??

 

[Bob Gray]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

I don't buy the slippery slope argument which I think you are alluding to here. I agree more with St Clown here. I'd say there is about zero chance that gay marriage being legal leads to adults marrying children / animals / plants or wherever else someone could dream up.

I wouldn't call it a slippery slope. I'd call it consistency. But, probably not a bad idea to bet against consistency.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

I don't buy the slippery slope argument which I think you are alluding to here. I agree more with St Clown here. I'd say there is about zero chance that gay marriage being legal leads to adults marrying children / animals / plants or wherever else someone could dream up.

In olden days, a glimpse of stocking was looked on as something shocking, but now God knows... Anything Goes!

 

[Priceless]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Letting TEH GAYS!! marry will lead to man on box turtle sex! And who knows what else! Just look what happened when we allowed whites and blacks to marry!

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

I wish!!

I can't remember where I saw it, but the other day there was a story about two people in what used to be called an "old folks' home" (I forget the PC term I'm supposed to use in these enlightened times). They had dementia and engaged in sexual intercourse, and people on the staff were worried about whether they had the capacity to form intent.

If you are horny you want to have sex even if you also have dementia: but does that mean you are a "consenting" adult??

Not that I saw the story but I would be willing to bet they were trying to determine if the individuals had "decision making capacity" instead of "consenting." Decision making capacity is a medical term that refers to an individual's ability to make decisions (medical or sometimes otherwise). It is made by medical personnel and does not require a court hearing. It relies on the ability for a patient to understand, evaluate and communication. Since the two people were in a medical facility under supervised care, I think they would have to determine if said patients were "decisional" or "capacitated." If they were deemed medically to be incapacitated, decisions can be based on substituted judgement (surrogate determination) or best interests (based on what a reasonable person might choose regarding ultimately the best in set particular circumstances).

Medical ethics is a bit complex but necessary to wade through difficult situations. It is often used to protect an individual in a transient state of inhibited decisional capacity from doing something dangerous or reckless. Like someone in a psychiatric crisis wanting to commit suicide. It is a bit more dicey in a (assumed) permanent disorder like dementia caused by Alzheimer's.

On the otherside, "competence" is a legal term referring to the ability of a person to make decisions about his or her affairs. Legally, an adult patient remains competent until a court says otherwise.

 

[WisconsinWildcard]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

In olden days, a glimpse of stocking was looked on as something shocking, but now God knows... Anything Goes!

I knew women should not have gotten the right to vote...

 

[leswp1]

Re: Just what IS "marriage" anyway?

Not that I saw the story but I would be willing to bet they were trying to determine if the individuals had "decision making capacity" instead of "consenting." Decision making capacity is a medical term that refers to an individual's ability to make decisions (medical or sometimes otherwise). It is made by medical personnel and does not require a court hearing. It relies on the ability for a patient to understand, evaluate and communication. Since the two people were in a medical facility under supervised care, I think they would have to determine if said patients were "decisional" or "capacitated." If they were deemed medically to be incapacitated, decisions can be based on substituted judgement (surrogate determination) or best interests (based on what a reasonable person might choose regarding ultimately the best in set particular circumstances).

Medical ethics is a bit complex but necessary to wade through difficult situations. It is often used to protect an individual in a transient state of inhibited decisional capacity from doing something dangerous or reckless. Like someone in a psychiatric crisis wanting to commit suicide. It is a bit more dicey in a (assumed) permanent disorder like dementia caused by Alzheimer's.

On the otherside, "competence" is a legal term referring to the ability of a person to make decisions about his or her affairs. Legally, an adult patient remains competent until a court says otherwise.

NPR did a big thing on this the other day . They hauled the man out of the room, the woman went wild kicking and striking the staff trying to get to him. She was calling him by her husbands name. Ended up that the DON and some other person in leadership were fired. The man was banished and his family had to travel 2 hrs to visit him. They countered that with stories from a place in New York that trained staff to deal with intimacy as a natural part of life and followed that with the little factoid that Sandra Day O'Connor's hubby had a relationship with another woman in his NH. Fascinating piece on the ethics, morals, etc.