Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
How is my argument "fact free" exactly? All I've stated are facts
How is my argument "fact free" exactly? All I've stated are facts
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Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
- Thread starter solovsfett
- Start date
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
I think LynahFan had tried to make an analogous point about Ned Harkness. As a college hockey coach, he came in somewhere between # 6 and # 10 on FS23's list of all-time men's NCAA division I ice hockey coaches; however when you factor in his success as a college and as an Olympic lacrosse coach, he is a great, versatile overall coach.
I think LynahFan had tried to make an analogous point about Ned Harkness. As a college hockey coach, he came in somewhere between # 6 and # 10 on FS23's list of all-time men's NCAA division I ice hockey coaches; however when you factor in his success as a college and as an Olympic lacrosse coach, he is a great, versatile overall coach.
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
One man's take:
http://insidecollegehockey.com/inch/2012/04/08/final_york_1027/
One man's take:
http://insidecollegehockey.com/inch/2012/04/08/final_york_1027/
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
hmm, I disagree w/you Brooks' NCAA resume -3 titles in 6 years, that's way more than decent, that's incredible.
Badger Bob was on an NCAA title every 4-year clip 73, 77, 81 (lost in 82 NCAA FINAL his last year in Madison)
I don't think we can allow for Coach X would have/could have/should have if they stayed in NCAA, or if x happened, etc. it didn't happen so York is on top of the mountain. He's never had pro aspirations or olympic aspirations as many of the others and that's helped him maintain his success for sure but that shouldn't count against him being the best.
most innovative? no, I give that to Johnson and Brooks (they were revolutionaries really).
hmm, I disagree w/you Brooks' NCAA resume -3 titles in 6 years, that's way more than decent, that's incredible.
Badger Bob was on an NCAA title every 4-year clip 73, 77, 81 (lost in 82 NCAA FINAL his last year in Madison)
I don't think we can allow for Coach X would have/could have/should have if they stayed in NCAA, or if x happened, etc. it didn't happen so York is on top of the mountain. He's never had pro aspirations or olympic aspirations as many of the others and that's helped him maintain his success for sure but that shouldn't count against him being the best.
most innovative? no, I give that to Johnson and Brooks (they were revolutionaries really).
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
Never heard of him.
Never heard of him.
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
Yeah you do the BHHC named their playoff champions trophy after him. DUH!
Yeah you do the BHHC named their playoff champions trophy after him. DUH!
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
please don't derail the thread!
but for a quick digression to answer you: Johnson is right there w/Brooks. 3 NCAA's apiece, 1 gold medal for one, an NHL Stanley Cup for the other (along w/a runner-up in Calgary).
but that's all moot...is Jerry York the best NCAA hockey coach all-time? his numbers certainly state that's the case
please don't derail the thread!
but for a quick digression to answer you: Johnson is right there w/Brooks. 3 NCAA's apiece, 1 gold medal for one, an NHL Stanley Cup for the other (along w/a runner-up in Calgary).but that's all moot...is Jerry York the best NCAA hockey coach all-time? his numbers certainly state that's the case
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
I don't know. He's certainly right up there and the most successful of recent times. I just wouldn't diminish what Johnson and Brooks accomplished. I believe if there was a Mt. Rushmore of NCAA hockey coaches, you'd have to start with those three.
I don't know. He's certainly right up there and the most successful of recent times. I just wouldn't diminish what Johnson and Brooks accomplished. I believe if there was a Mt. Rushmore of NCAA hockey coaches, you'd have to start with those three.
Shirtless Guy
Old Dirty Basterd
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
And ignore Murray Armstrong, Vic Heyliget and John MacInnes?
And ignore Murray Armstrong, Vic Heyliget and John MacInnes?
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
There's still one spot left.
Oh yeah, and Crazy Horse. Heyliget could be riding MacInnes.
There's still one spot left.
Oh yeah, and Crazy Horse. Heyliget could be riding MacInnes.
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
damm you.
I hate you....but then I don't.
Are you a woman?
There's still one spot left.
Oh yeah, and Crazy Horse. Heyliget could be riding MacInnes.
damm you.
I hate you....but then I don't.
Are you a woman?
solovsfett
Registered User
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
that's the most difficult aspect of this. Johnson and Brooks were true innovators who changed the game entirely. Johnson taking over a program that was just a few years back into the game (and in a state that was a non-hockey state to be sure so had no recruiting advantage whatsoever) and in short order turning it around winning 3 titles and all the while going up against Brooks (3 titles) and Macinnes (3 titles).
that brings up another problem, right now York has no peer so head to head he stands out even further against the rest of today's field which would seem to prop him up against past coaches as well in a way. the what if's are intriguing but we'll never know unfortunately (what if BC played an all WCHA schedule, or what if BU, Maine, UNH offered consistent competition over the last 15 years, etc)
I love the Mt. Rushmor of NCAA hockey coaches thought and agree w/ starting w/Johnson, Brooks and York
that's the most difficult aspect of this. Johnson and Brooks were true innovators who changed the game entirely. Johnson taking over a program that was just a few years back into the game (and in a state that was a non-hockey state to be sure so had no recruiting advantage whatsoever) and in short order turning it around winning 3 titles and all the while going up against Brooks (3 titles) and Macinnes (3 titles).
that brings up another problem, right now York has no peer so head to head he stands out even further against the rest of today's field which would seem to prop him up against past coaches as well in a way. the what if's are intriguing but we'll never know unfortunately (what if BC played an all WCHA schedule, or what if BU, Maine, UNH offered consistent competition over the last 15 years, etc)
I love the Mt. Rushmor of NCAA hockey coaches thought and agree w/ starting w/Johnson, Brooks and York
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
The title of this thread is "Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time.] Shouldn't that eliminate some of this back and forth talk about the older coaches? I'm not old enough to remember some of those guys, but I think it would be tough to argue that Jerry York is the best coach of the last 30 years.
The title of this thread is "Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time.] Shouldn't that eliminate some of this back and forth talk about the older coaches? I'm not old enough to remember some of those guys, but I think it would be tough to argue that Jerry York is the best coach of the last 30 years.
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
NESN ran a video about the 2002 BC hockey team - the one after NC #2. That team was hit by massive NHL defections and an injury bug that probably would have bankrupted Romneycare. They were mediocre at best and lost to Maine in the HEA quarters.
Yet Jerry never panicked, never lost his cool, never got discouraged. The players were overmatched but never quit.
Any coach can look great with great talent. How you coach when you don't have that talent is a better marker. Coach York has had both over his career and he's still the same person who blew his first whistle 40 years ago.
NESN ran a video about the 2002 BC hockey team - the one after NC #2. That team was hit by massive NHL defections and an injury bug that probably would have bankrupted Romneycare. They were mediocre at best and lost to Maine in the HEA quarters.
Yet Jerry never panicked, never lost his cool, never got discouraged. The players were overmatched but never quit.
Any coach can look great with great talent. How you coach when you don't have that talent is a better marker. Coach York has had both over his career and he's still the same person who blew his first whistle 40 years ago.
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
I think the nuance is whether you interpret the question as, "Which coach's resume includes the most impressive accomplishments in college hockey?" or "Which college hockey coach was best at building, organizing, training, and motivating his teams - i.e. best at coaching?" York may well win a couple more titles at BC before all is said and done, which would clearly give him the best resume. However, I could still see where Brooks, Johnson, Harkness, et al would still be in the discussion for the latter interpretation.
Nobody well ever convince me that there's any more impressive stretch than Harkness taking over a Cornell team which had had a single winning season since its post-WWII re-inception, getting them to 22-5 two years later, and then losing a total of 5 games over the next 4 seasons combined. His problem was that he was TOO successful at college hockey, so he decided to go on to bigger and better challenges. Perhaps if he'd lost a few more games in there, he'd have ended up staying at Cornell for 30 seasons and we'd be discussing why none of the Western teams can match Cornell's number of titles...
I think the nuance is whether you interpret the question as, "Which coach's resume includes the most impressive accomplishments in college hockey?" or "Which college hockey coach was best at building, organizing, training, and motivating his teams - i.e. best at coaching?" York may well win a couple more titles at BC before all is said and done, which would clearly give him the best resume. However, I could still see where Brooks, Johnson, Harkness, et al would still be in the discussion for the latter interpretation.
Nobody well ever convince me that there's any more impressive stretch than Harkness taking over a Cornell team which had had a single winning season since its post-WWII re-inception, getting them to 22-5 two years later, and then losing a total of 5 games over the next 4 seasons combined. His problem was that he was TOO successful at college hockey, so he decided to go on to bigger and better challenges. Perhaps if he'd lost a few more games in there, he'd have ended up staying at Cornell for 30 seasons and we'd be discussing why none of the Western teams can match Cornell's number of titles...
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
I know there are WCHA people that will disagree, but the one thing I don't even consider a factor is what if BC had to play an all WCHA schedule. Hockey East is no slouch and has been if not right there with the WCHA, clearly the next conference in line. Throw in BCs 11-4 NCAA tourney record against WCHA competition and I don't think much, if anything would change.
I know there are WCHA people that will disagree, but the one thing I don't even consider a factor is what if BC had to play an all WCHA schedule. Hockey East is no slouch and has been if not right there with the WCHA, clearly the next conference in line. Throw in BCs 11-4 NCAA tourney record against WCHA competition and I don't think much, if anything would change.
Fighting Sioux 23
New member
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
While I tend to agree with your overall conclusion, I think the WCHA is significantly more physical than Hockey East, and a full schedule against WCHA would likely knock out some players (if not some of your best players). Look at DU this year for a prime example of a team loaded with talent that got decimated by the grind of the WCHA. That being said, I think the WCHA also prepares teams better for the NCAA Tournament, and York would probably be able to shape his teams a bit better to play on that stage, so it is possible that BC would have had even more success if they played a full WCHA schedule.
While I tend to agree with your overall conclusion, I think the WCHA is significantly more physical than Hockey East, and a full schedule against WCHA would likely knock out some players (if not some of your best players). Look at DU this year for a prime example of a team loaded with talent that got decimated by the grind of the WCHA. That being said, I think the WCHA also prepares teams better for the NCAA Tournament, and York would probably be able to shape his teams a bit better to play on that stage, so it is possible that BC would have had even more success if they played a full WCHA schedule.
G
Gurtholfin
Guest
Re: Jerry York is the best NCAA hockey coach of the last 30 years, maybe of all-time
That's coz I'm funny (sometimes) and people like funny. Even Gopher fans when they occasionally get over themselves.
That's coz I'm funny (sometimes) and people like funny. Even Gopher fans when they occasionally get over themselves.