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Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Bob Gray said:
Oh, good heavens. The President has no influence on spending in this country. How could I forget?

Obama has done everything he can to undermine building the border fence. But, he apparently believes it's basically built:
http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-m...ama-says-border-fence-now-basically-complete/
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What's that got to do with anything? Obama also believes that the Bush Tax Cuts should have expired and we needed revenue increases in addition to spending cuts. How the **** did that turn out?

You need to start blaming the people in charge, and it sure as hell isn't Obama.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

ScoobyDoo said:
What's that got to do with anything? Obama also believes that the Bush Tax Cuts should have expired and we needed revenue increases in addition to spending cuts. How the **** did that turn out?

You need to start blaming the people in charge, and it sure as hell isn't Obama.
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Obama isn't in charge? Guess I better watch the news a bit closer. I realize you liberals are mad at him for not getting all you wanted in the debt ceiling debate, but he is still President and he still wields significant influence on spending, obviously. This is getting farcical. Especially from a number of folks who regularly credit Bill Clinton with the relatively good condition of the federal budget in the 90s.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Bob Gray said:
Obama isn't in charge? Guess I better watch the news a bit closer. I realize you liberals are mad at him for not getting all you wanted in the debt ceiling debate, but he is still President and he still wields significant influence on spending, obviously. This is getting farcical. Especially from a number of folks who regularly credit Bill Clinton with the relatively good condition of the federal budget in the 90s.
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Not getting all he wanted?? Are you serious, Bob? What debate did you watch? Boehner didn't brag that he got 98% of what he wanted for nothing. If the Teabaggers wanted the fence built then that part of the budget wouldn't have been cut. See bronconick's article/link below.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

unofan said:
Influence, yes. But let's not pretend that he personally or single-handedly stopped building the fence. The Teabaggers could've made its reinstatement one of their deal breakers in the debt ceiling bill if they really wanted it back.
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There's Republicans that are weak on the issue, but Obama has gone out of his way to be hostile to efforts to control the border, and undermining efforts to build the wall, amonst other things. I concede to you that he was not personally down there at Nogales working on the fence and then he stopped, if that helps you out here. :rolleyes:

The Tea Party folks are at fault for not making it a dealbreaker in the debt talks? What on earth are you talking about?
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

ScoobyDoo said:
Not getting all he wanted?? Are you serious, Bob? What debate did you watch? Boehner didn't brag that he got 98% of what he wanted for nothing. If the Teabaggers wanted the fence built then that part of the budget wouldn't have been cut. See bronconick's article/link below.
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Of course he didn't get all he wanted, but serious fiscal conservatives aren't happy with the mild cuts that are included in the deal. What was done was better than nothing, but it'll still leave federal spending spiraling upward.

You liberals have never been realistic about what Obama should achieve, and this is just the latest. You can't win every issue all the time.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Patman said:
edit: to the point, the US government WAS running a major gun scam without even an obvious end strategy or point.
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Must be Congress' fault, since Obama isn't apparently running things, or so I've been told.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Bob Gray said:
Must be Congress' fault, since Obama isn't apparently running things, or so I've been told.
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No, that one's on Obama. Even the teabaggers can't take away his chief law enforcement officer mantle. The fence is funding though, and that's all on Congress.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

ScoobyDoo said:
No, that one's on Obama. Even the teabaggers can't take away his chief law enforcement officer mantle. The fence is funding though, and that's all on Congress.
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Poor Obama. He just so wanted to build that border fence, and the big bad Congress wouldn't give him any money to do so.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Bob Gray said:
Of course he didn't get all he wanted, but serious fiscal conservatives aren't happy with the mild cuts that are included in the deal. What was done was better than nothing, but it'll still leave federal spending spiraling upward.

You liberals have never been realistic about what Obama should achieve, and this is just the latest. You can't win every issue all the time.
Click to expand...

What part of 98% don't you understand, Bob? The Libs control the Presidency and the Senate and they got their asses handed to them in the negotiations. Boehner got 98%. Obama got 2%. That makes Obama the weakest Presidency ever.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

ScoobyDoo said:
What part of 98% don't you understand, Bob? The Libs control the Presidency and the Senate and they got their asses handed to them in the negotiations. Boehner got 98%. Obama got 2%. That makes Obama the weakest Presidency ever.
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Look past the partisanship and ask yourself if what was negotiated is good for the nation long term and addresses the issues we face. That's where I'm looking. I know you filter everything through a partisan screen.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Bob Gray said:
Poor Obama. He just so wanted to build that border fence, and the big bad Congress wouldn't give him any money to do so.
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Do you not understand that Congressional apportionments are not voluntary, and that if they gave the executive branch $X to build a fence, then the executive branch must spend $X to build said fence?

Just because Obama doidn't push for it, doesn't mean Congress couldn't have forced the issue themselves if they wanted to.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

unofan said:
Do you not understand that Congressional apportionments are not voluntary, and that if they gave the executive branch $X to build a fence, then the executive branch must spend $X to build said fence?

Just because Obama doidn't push for it, doesn't mean Congress couldn't have forced the issue themselves if they wanted to.
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Yup, Obama just does what those House Republicans tell him to. You betcha.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Bob Gray said:
Poor Obama. He just so wanted to build that border fence, and the big bad Congress wouldn't give him any money to do so.
Click to expand...

You continually make it sound like its Obama...when its politicians. All it does is make you look politically biased and not genuine on immigration.

McCain did vote against an amendment to the Department of Homeland Security Appropriations Act of 2007 that would have allocated an additional $1.8 billion to construct double-layered fencing and vehicle barriers along the southwest border. However, that amendment failed overwhelmingly: Half of the Republicans (including Senate Republican Leader Mitch McConnell of Kentucky) voted against it. Sen. Kyl Voted Against Securing The Border And Enforcing Current Immigration Law. In 2007, Sen. Jon Kyl (R-AZ) voted against an amendment submitted by Sen. Coburn (R-OK) that would "require the enforcement of existing border security and immigration laws and Congressional approval before amnesty can be granted."

2006- Sen. McCain voted against extending the border fence in the Sessions Amendment (2) to H.R. 5441.
2006- Sen. McCain voted to prevent the border fence from being built by voting in favor of the Managers Amendment to S. 2611, the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006.
2006- Sen. McCain voted to allow illegal aliens to receive Social Security by voting to table the Ensign Amendment to S. 2611, the Comprehensive Immigration Reform Act of 2006.
2006- Sen. McCain voted against funding additional immigration investigators by voting against the Sessions Amendment (1) to H.R. 5441.
2005- Sen. McCain voted against providing funding for additional Border Patrol and ICE agents by voting against the Byrd Amendment to H.R. 1268.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

But McCain's all for completing that danged fence!

<iframe width="425" height="349" src="http://www.youtube.com/embed/r0lwusMxiHc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>


(In an election year).
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

ScoobyDoo said:
What part of 98% don't you understand, Bob? The Libs control the Presidency and the Senate and they got their asses handed to them in the negotiations. Boehner got 98%. Obama got 2%. That makes Obama the weakest Presidency ever.
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It doesn't have to add up to 100%. In some negotiations, the parties can even each get 100% of what they want. I bet if you asked Obama what percentage of what he got, he would say way more than 2%. This two-party system creates such an adversarial environment that it's easy to always think in terms of winners and losers, but it shouldn't have to be that way. :(
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Bob Gray said:
Yup, Obama just does what those House Republicans tell him to. You betcha.
Click to expand...

Once it's law, yes he does. His power's in the negotiations and the threat of a veto prior to the bill becoming law.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

unofan said:
Once it's law, yes he does. His power's in the negotiations and the threat of a veto prior to the bill becoming law.
Click to expand...
And obviously the power in the negotiations and the threat of veto, let alone that he's got one side of Congress under the control of his party give him great leverage in how money is spent.
 
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