What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Rover said:
Yes, what I'm saying is that unless they produce some evidence they are making up the claim that the administrations actions regarding the border are for the purposes of supporting amnesty for illegal aliens. I've yet to see anybody show where Obama supports amnesty. Anybody can make a claim, such as the soldier who refuses to be deployed because he thinks Obama was born in Kenya. Unless he has proof of that, its a made up premise. Same thing here.


So, once again - show us where Obama supports amnesty for illegals? Why are you struggling so much with this basic question?


Regarding some of their charges, the part about overcrowding and not enough resources are already well known. The problem is when it gets chalked up to a secret amnesty program. That's when its time to break out the black helicopters and tin foil hats. I'd also like to see a response from the people they're accusing to get the full picture.
Click to expand...

You apparently don't understand what they mean when they talk about comprehensive immigration reform, eh? I'm doing what I can to help you connect the dots, but so far it doesn't seem to be working.

At least we've established that you refuse to believe what law enforcement officials in this country say. Fine. But that says more about you than them.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

5mn_Major said:
Political outsiders would be pundits..who are willing to listen to one side and not the other just because they support that side. In my case, I don't have enough evidence to believe either side...but it appears you do.



It doesn't matter what they highlighted.

First, you keep blurring the bounds between 7000 union members and their representatives...they are not the same. I think this is the point that's made time and again by conservatives on threads like this.

Second, unions by their nature do not put the company's outcomes first. If they did, they wouldn't exist...as they'd serve no purpose. So no, I can't think of a circumstance where I'd listen to a company's union representation and think 'ya, the company isn't doing what's in its best interest...now that union leadership whose charter is worker welfare, they know what's in the company's best interest!'

And then you make this huge leap to how inspite of all the numbers to the contrary that Obama is doing a bad job. Just show evidence and you can bypass the faulty inferences.
Click to expand...

I'm not blurring anything. There is nothing to blur. Show me where a single ICE rank-and-file member has spoken out against this. You think local representatives don't represent the views of the local members? Again, show an iota of proof? Not only is what you say illogical and unfounded, but, living here in Arizona, I know folks who confirm that the rank-and-file have views that match the statement. But, keep your head in the sand. It's a common tactic of those who deny there are serious border problems that could, and should, be addressed.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Bob Gray said:
I'm not blurring anything. There is nothing to blur. Show me where a single ICE rank-and-file member has spoken out against this. You think local representatives don't represent the views of the local members? Again, show an iota of proof? Not only is what you say illogical and unfounded, but, living here in Arizona, I know folks who confirm that the rank-and-file have views that match the statement. But, keep your head in the sand. It's a common tactic of those who deny there are serious border problems that could, and should, be addressed.
Click to expand...

I'm saying we don't have enough info to know what member positions are. Youre the one making the claim here that you know how 7000 members feel...so you prove it.

And the point still stands that unions by definition have opposed agendas to companies and typically a union voting to remove a company's CEO would be considered a joke.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

5mn_Major said:
I'm saying we don't have enough info to know what member positions are. Youre the one making the claim here that you know how 7000 members feel...so you prove it.

And the point still stands that unions by definition have opposed agendas to companies and typically a union voting to remove a company's CEO would be considered a joke.
Click to expand...
this isn't a typical union, like the UAW or Teamsters. These are law enforcement officers concerned about our border. It's not like their letter is just a money grab for higher salaries or something. The letter is the evidence. The fact that you choose to ignore it because all 7,000 ICE agents didn't personally sign it is disingenuous. The fact is, numerous national and local ICE agent representatives unanimously endorsed the vote of no confidence and letter. Your argument simply has no basis.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Rover said:
Amnesty means you have legal rights like a citizen has. These people don't. They can legally be detained for being here illegally (which I don't have a problem with) and they can be deported. Under amnesty, neither of these things would be true.
Click to expand...

You're drawing a distinction between de jure amnesty and de facto amnesty, which is a distinction without a difference. Millions of illegal immigrants have actively demonstrated that they don't care about having legal rights - before they ever decide to leave Mexico, they know that coming to the US means that they won't have those rights, and yet they still flood over the border. In today's status quo, they are perfectly happy to live in the US without citizen's rights, so long as they are free to work and live. All that they want is to be left alone, which is exactly what current ICE policy provides them.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Bob Gray said:
this isn't a typical union, like the UAW or Teamsters. These are law enforcement officers concerned about our border. It's not like their letter is just a money grab for higher salaries or something. The letter is the evidence. The fact that you choose to ignore it because all 7,000 ICE agents didn't personally sign it is disingenuous. The fact is, numerous national and local ICE agent representatives unanimously endorsed the vote of no confidence and letter. Your argument simply has no basis.
Click to expand...

the union probably allows them some status to make a statement... remember, they are federal employees and are thus covered under the Hatch Act... and this could certainly be seen as an attempt to use their position to influence public policy.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

The silence is deafening. Gee, maybe 259 people who unanimously vote in favor of a position actually represent the overall views of 7,000? :p
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

LynahFan said:
You're drawing a distinction between de jure amnesty and de facto amnesty, which is a distinction without a difference. Millions of illegal immigrants have actively demonstrated that they don't care about having legal rights - before they ever decide to leave Mexico, they know that coming to the US means that they won't have those rights, and yet they still flood over the border. In today's status quo, they are perfectly happy to live in the US without citizen's rights, so long as they are free to work and live. All that they want is to be left alone, which is exactly what current ICE policy provides them.
Click to expand...

Incorrect. What you think is happening - de facto amnesty, is not in fact the case. Want proof? Check out "Sheriff Joe" 's tent facilities for illegals that he catches. Under a real amnesty, he couldn't do that as he isn't allowed to detain legal residents on immigration violations. Furthermore, they are not "free to work" as a high profile raid of workplace employing illegals will get that employer shut down and his employees a ticket to a detention facility (most likely due to the high profile nature of a 'raid' but again, under amnesty that wouldn't be possible. I'd be happy to site an example of this if you'd like).

Lastly, I'd also like to see if there's another reason why ICE agents aren't going out on raids to arrest illegals. Is it because other law enforecement doesn't want them to do so? How many of the 7K are in charge of detention (aka prison guards) and therefore that's not part of their jobs? What you, and Bob, are doing is taking one side's view on this and running with it. Normally that might be okay if their premise behind every problem is "the Admin is pushing covert amnesty for illegals". As I've continually asked, someone please show me where that's the case, because otherwise this discussion is like arguing with Birthers.
 
Last edited:
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Sheriff Joe has had tent facilities for regular inmates for many years, along with other fun stuff he does, like pink underwear. His raids are mostly for show and really don't net a lot of illegals.

We're just point out facts, like unanimous condemnation of Obama and his hirelings' running of ICE by the rank-and-file that actually try to, or would like to be allowed to, do the work. But, hey, go ahead and ignore what all the folks actually on the border say. Keep buying into the PR spin from the Beltway.

Let me try to help you out one more time. In Obamatalk, comprehensive immigration reform = amnesty. Try reading up on comprehensive immigration reform if you haven't heard the term before, which apparently you haven't.
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Bob Gray said:
Sheriff Joe has had tent facilities for regular inmates for many years, along with other fun stuff he does, like pink underwear. His raids are mostly for show and really don't net a lot of illegals.

We're just point out facts, like unanimous condemnation of Obama and his hirelings' running of ICE by the rank-and-file that actually try to, or would like to be allowed to, do the work. But, hey, go ahead and ignore what all the folks actually on the border say. Keep buying into the PR spin from the Beltway.

Let me try to help you out one more time. In Obamatalk, comprehensive immigration reform = amnesty. Try reading up on comprehensive immigration reform if you haven't heard the term before, which apparently you haven't.
Click to expand...


Hey, wait a minute! In one sentance, you tell me..."But, hey, go ahead and ignore what all the folks actually on the border say. Keep buying into the PR spin from the Beltway."

But, in the paragraph before, its..."Sheriff Joe has had tent facilities for regular inmates for many years, along with other fun stuff he does, like pink underwear. His raids are mostly for show and really don't net a lot of illegals."


So, Bob, are we to conclude that you know more than Sheriff Joe about containing illegals??? Despite that fact that he's on the front lines and you aren't? Holy Hypocrisy Batman, you've contradicted yourself in the same post. :eek: :rolleyes: :D


Too easy....
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Rover said:
Hey, wait a minute! In one sentance, you tell me..."But, hey, go ahead and ignore what all the folks actually on the border say. Keep buying into the PR spin from the Beltway."

But, in the paragraph before, its..."Sheriff Joe has had tent facilities for regular inmates for many years, along with other fun stuff he does, like pink underwear. His raids are mostly for show and really don't net a lot of illegals."


So, Bob, are we to conclude that you know more than Sheriff Joe about containing illegals??? Despite that fact that he's on the front lines and you aren't? Holy Hypocrisy Batman, you've contradicted yourself in the same post. :eek: :rolleyes: :D


Too easy....
Click to expand...
That makes no sense, even by your standards. I was correcting your lack of understanding as to what Sheriff Joe does. You see, when you actually live in Arizona, you know about what goes on around the state, including having seen Sheriff Joe in the news for many years. But, good to hear you're a Sheriff Joe supporter. :p
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Bob Gray said:
That makes no sense, even by your standards. I was correcting your lack of understanding as to what Sheriff Joe does. You see, when you actually live in Arizona, you know about what goes on around the state, including having seen Sheriff Joe in the news for many years. But, good to hear you're a Sheriff Joe supporter. :p
Click to expand...

But for the record, you know more about enforcing the law than the Maricopa country sheriff? If not, then you may want to correct your posting. :D
 
Re: Illegal Immigration IV: Amnesty For Some, Miniature American Flags For Others

Rover said:
But for the record, you know more about enforcing the law than the Maricopa country sheriff? If not, then you may want to correct your posting. :D
Click to expand...
I never remotely said I know more than Sheriff Joe. So nothing to correct. Noting that his actions have limitations is not the same thing. Please find a new straw the grasp. :p
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top