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If Atlantic Hockey Accepts UAH, They're the New College Hockey America

njmav1 said:
Atlantic Hockey could throw them a lifeline, but that's not a good reason to admit a school. It's why the WCHA is going away.
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I agree but only to a certain point. The WCHA 2.0 went away because it included three geographic outliers who were on shaky ground. Three out of eight teams were very distant travel, on the brink of folding and two of the three were not performing well on the ice.

Atlantic Hockey picking up UAH would be less extreme because it is only one geographic outlier and the burden is split eleven ways, not seven. This doesn't make it a slam dunk that Atlantic should add UAH, but it makes the addition less painful simply because the conference is larger. You also have LIU and Lindenwood who are clearly going to want a conference home sooner rather than later, so Atlantic could find themselves splitting the UAH "burden" thirteen ways.
 
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JohnsonsJerseys said:
I agree but only to a certain point. The WCHA 2.0 went away because it included three geographic outliers who were on shaky ground. Three out of eight terms were very distant travel, on the brink of folding and two of the three were not performing well on the ice.

Atlantic Hockey picking up UAH would be less extreme because it is only one geographic outlier and the burden is split eleven ways, not seven. This doesn't make it a slam dunk that Atlantic should add UAH, but it makes the addition less painful simply because the conference is larger. You also have LIU and Lindenwood who are clearly going to want a conference home sooner rather than later, so Atlantic could find themselves splitting the UAH "burden" thirteen ways.
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That would actually introduce the second geographic outlier to AHA, but to a lesser degree than the one they have now - Air Force.
If UAH and Lindenwood were to join, they could no longer call themselves a "bus league".
 
JohnsonsJerseys said:
I agree but only to a certain point. The WCHA 2.0 went away because it included three geographic outliers who were on shaky ground. Three out of eight terms were very distant travel, on the brink of folding and two of the three were not performing well on the ice.

Atlantic Hockey picking up UAH would be less extreme because it is only one geographic outlier and the burden is split eleven ways, not seven. This doesn't make it a slam dunk that Atlantic should add UAH, but it makes the addition less painful simply because the conference is larger. You also have LIU and Lindenwood who are clearly going to want a conference home sooner rather than later, so Atlantic could find themselves splitting the UAH "burden" thirteen ways.
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Adding members "just because" isn't a valid reason. Why split a burden when you don't have to incur it in the first place?

What value does UAH add to Atlantic Hockey?
 
njmav1 said:
Adding members "just because" isn't a valid reason. Why split a burden when you don't have to incur it in the first place?

What value does UAH add to Atlantic Hockey?
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I agree with this. Why do the AHA and CCHA get crapped on for not accepting the burden of UAH (or UAA, or UAF)? If the college hockey community cares so much about saving these programs, why doesn't the NCHC or Big 10 step in and take them?

Also, while giving full throated credit to the people outside the school administrations who are working to save these programs, the fact that these programs are still considered burdens after all the effort and donations and time is not good. At some point, you have to stop being a burden. "We're going to cost you time and money, but you should prop us up anyways" is not a good sales pitch.
 
UAH has two "burdens" that a conference must bare. First is location. Not really any way to fix that other than hope more teams start-up in closer proximity. Yes, UAH could just be the next ASU and never play at home, but that isn't sustainable. They could also play all their home games in a major city (Nashville) but again then what's the point of having the team if local fans can't attend most of the games. To my understanding, the WCHA 2.0 teams playing at UAH was not a financial burden, just simply the more painful travel logistics and time.

The second issue is on-ice performance. This can be fixed over time with effort and money. If UAH builds a rink that has player facilities beyond that of any other program (I'm not saying they have the money to do this) they'll attract plenty of future players. How badly do they want it. Every team wants to win, but not every program has the resources to do so at the highest level. Fact: Kids like shiny and new.
 
JohnsonsJerseys said:
UAH has two "burdens" that a conference must bare. First is location. Not really any way to fix that other than hope more teams start-up in closer proximity. Yes, UAH could just be the next ASU and never play at home, but that isn't sustainable. They could also play all their home games in a major city (Nashville) but again then what's the point of having the team if local fans can't attend most of the games. To my understanding, the WCHA 2.0 teams playing at UAH was not a financial burden, just simply the more painful travel logistics and time.

The second issue is on-ice performance. This can be fixed over time with effort and money. If UAH builds a rink that has player facilities beyond that of any other program (I'm not saying they have the money to do this) they'll attract plenty of future players. How badly do they want it. Every team wants to win, but not every program has the resources to do so at the highest level. Fact: Kids like shiny and new.
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If UAH had a winning program and top notch facilities, I have to imagine they would find a conference. They don't. They have an administration that wants to euthanize the program. Why buy a headache if you are a conference?
 
JohnsonsJerseys said:
UAH has two "burdens" that a conference must bare. First is location. Not really any way to fix that other than hope more teams start-up in closer proximity. Yes, UAH could just be the next ASU and never play at home, but that isn't sustainable. They could also play all their home games in a major city (Nashville) but again then what's the point of having the team if local fans can't attend most of the games. To my understanding, the WCHA 2.0 teams playing at UAH was not a financial burden, just simply the more painful travel logistics and time.

The second issue is on-ice performance. This can be fixed over time with effort and money. If UAH builds a rink that has player facilities beyond that of any other program (I'm not saying they have the money to do this) they'll attract plenty of future players. How badly do they want it. Every team wants to win, but not every program has the resources to do so at the highest level. Fact: Kids like shiny and new.
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UAH was at near the bottom of the league for attendance. Winning would probably fix that.

I don't follow UAH athletics at all, but I get the sense that hockey isn't considered their marquee sport, unlike the other D2 schools. Mankato does well at other sports- football is a national powerhouse. Wrestling, softball, baseball, men's and women's track and field, and women's soccer are nationally ranked every year. The football team has been to the national championship game twice in the last 5 years. The softball team has a national championship from 2017. I can make the argument that the men's hockey team has not come close to matching those two.

But you can't dispute that MSU values the hockey program above all the other programs. And I believe the same goes for Bemidji, Ferris, Northern Michigan, Tech, and Lake State.
 
AMC said:
If UAH had a winning program and top notch facilities, I have to imagine they would find a conference. They don't. They have an administration that wants to euthanize the program. Why buy a headache if you are a conference?
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I'm not so sure about that. There are plenty of bad programs that fit comfortably in their conferences. Ferris hasn't had a decent winning season in a while, yet there was no question about including them in the new CCHA. I think geography and a demonstrable commitment to the hockey program are the two most important factors. Right now, UAH has neither on their side.

I really am pulling for UAH to make it. The last thing I want to see are more power 5 schools take up the sport. Remember what happened when Penn State went D1? Can you imagine if a bunch of PAC-12 and SEC schools decide to make the jump? What I love about college hockey is the mix of small and big schools- public and private. The size of the school's enrollment and or endowment isn't a factor like it is in FBS football. So I want to see schools like UAH, Lindenwood, LIU, and Tennessee State in D1 hockey. But schools like that (including those in the CCHA) have to be really committed. They can't half-ass it.
 
I think what happens with LIU will be a good indication of how Atlantic Hockey feels/felt about UAH. If LIU gets into Atlantic and UAH does not, then I think you have to say it was geography that killed the Chargers chances. If you look at everything else, there is no reason to not take UAH over / with LIU.
  • Tradition - advantage UAH, they've been around for decades in D-II and now D-I
  • Success - advantage UAH, multiple national championships in D-II and at times have played tough in the WCHA 2.0
  • Dedicated fans/alumni - advantage UAH, hands down, they refuse to let the program die
  • Finances - advantage UAH, in spite of rocky times, their supporters haven't been just talk, they've put their money where their mouth is
  • Connection to AH - advantage LIU, Atlantic was willing to assist LIU with scheduling this year so it is safe to say there is already some mutual interest, if UAH had been D-I Ind. this year, would AH have been as eager to add games against them?
  • Location - advantage LIU, the Sharks are the easier trip for Atlantic teams when compared to UAH
 
njmav1 said:
I'm not so sure about that. There are plenty of bad programs that fit comfortably in their conferences. Ferris hasn't had a decent winning season in a while, yet there was no question about including them in the new CCHA. I think geography and a demonstrable commitment to the hockey program are the two most important factors. Right now, UAH has neither on their side.
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Sadly, even with a bad Ferris team, there's no question if they are playing the next season or the season after that.
 
JohnsonsJerseys said:
I think what happens with LIU will be a good indication of how Atlantic Hockey feels/felt about UAH. If LIU gets into Atlantic and UAH does not, then I think you have to say it was geography that killed the Chargers chances. If you look at everything else, there is no reason to not take UAH over / with LIU.
  • Tradition - advantage UAH, they've been around for decades in D-II and now D-I
  • Success - advantage UAH, multiple national championships in D-II and at times have played tough in the WCHA 2.0
  • Dedicated fans/alumni - advantage UAH, hands down, they refuse to let the program die
  • Finances - advantage UAH, in spite of rocky times, their supporters haven't been just talk, they've put their money where their mouth is
  • Connection to AH - advantage LIU, Atlantic was willing to assist LIU with scheduling this year so it is safe to say there is already some mutual interest, if UAH had been D-I Ind. this year, would AH have been as eager to add games against them?
  • Location - advantage LIU, the Sharks are the easier trip for Atlantic teams when compared to UAH
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  • Tradition means nothing these days- otherwise there would be no B1G hockey.
  • Success at the D2 level is something you can't take away from UAH. But we're talking D1.
  • Dedicated fans/alumni, perhaps UAH's biggest and most attractive asset. But the conference is composed of the member institutions. UAH as an institution hasn't shown that it is committed to the program. I believe that is what kept UAH out of the CCHA.
  • Finances- we'll have to disagree. The program's supporters have been more than willing to write the checks. But why does it take a near death experience for the money to start flowing?
LIU's biggest advantage is it's location. As for commitment, they've already shown that in the COVID strangled season, they answered the bell, unlike the Alaska schools and much of the established programs in the ECAC. And just like UAH, Atlantic Hockey is LIU's only option for conference membership, so you have to believe they're fighting for that spot.
 
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Wild idea: how about if all six conferences came up with a scheduling agreement with the independent schools that got them some home games?

Doesnt have to be as altruistic as forcing someone to have them in a conference, but I’d imagine spreading the pain for UA/UAA/UAH over 50-odd programs might be more palatable for everyone involved.
 
ExileOnDaytonStreet said:
Wild idea: how about if all six conferences came up with a scheduling agreement with the independent schools that got them some home games?

Doesnt have to be as altruistic as forcing someone to have them in a conference, but I’d imagine spreading the pain for UA/UAA/UAH over 50-odd programs might be more palatable for everyone involved.
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That actually seems like a good idea to me. But the NCAA would have to get involved with this and I don't see that happening.
 
Currently 5 independents if I am correct:
Arizona State
Alaska Fairbanks
Long Island U.
UAH (if back from suspending(
UAA (if funding comes through)
From there, likely one for sure gets into a conference leaving 4. You could easily get to a 34 game schedule:
- 2 weekend series, both home/away, vs the other 3 independents (6 series) for 12 games
- 11 series (5 home and 6 away each year) vs all other schools. There are 57 other teams meaning on average a team would have to travel to one of the four schools once every approximately 3 years (4 teams with 5 home series equals 20 home series/year shared amongst the 57 teams).
This would guarantee the independents 34 games, 16 of which would be at home and would also create rivalries with the other 3 independents.
When I played at UAH in the initial independent DI days we also had a year end tournament a couple of times with 3 other DI independents. I believe St Cloud may even have gotten into NCAA tourney one year?!?
You could do that again to crown an independent champion and possibly have them qualify for a play in game like the NCAA basketball play in games). A one and done game with 16th ranked team to get in NCAA tourney. Would give them a basis to recruit as well.
Just my two cents.
 
I will add to my earlier comment, if the independent tournament was played each year, and was rotated amongst the 4 teams, that would give each team an extra home weekend every 4th year, and act as a playoff and mean 36 games minimum for all those teams each year.
 
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