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I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

Maybe the CCHA is weak this year, but I think most years it is closer to the WCHA and HE than this year. The CCHA might only get two teams in this year, but they had five teams in last year and four teams in the three years before that.


I tell you what, in response to your sort of acknowledging what I have been saying about Miami and the CCHA THIS year, I'll acknowledge that the CCHA has been stronger in the recent past. Winning a title and coming up 2nd on 2 occasions, so maybe the fact that the two years I chose to come into this forum and call the CCHA weak, were this year, a year where they are pretty weak comparatively, and 2005, when they got only 1 win in the NCAA tourney, just as I predicted they would, maybe you can ease up on the whole calling me an idiot thing?! Think it all you want, lol, but calling me one, honestly, makes you look kind of like one yourself. But of course that is coming from my perspective, which is obviously biased.


But my predictions stand, for now I've predicted MU will need 3 games to put MSU away. Once I see the NCAA tourney brackets, I'll post my predictions and then we'll see if I know what I'm talking about or not?!
 
Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

Btw, you had me scratching my head about the CHA thing. With the Gophers going undefeated in Women's hockey and breaking every record known to man, I've spent a lot of time paying attention to women's hockey this year, and the CHA does still exist as a women's conf. And I think that is where that came from.

Never said I was perfect.


Or that I don't ever express an opinion not completely corroborated by facts, but I simply try to resist the temptation to do that, to express an opinion that I can't back up with facts.
 
Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

Whatever Tipsy. I guess we'll have to wait and see if my prediction shows to be accurate or not.


What I see when I look at Miami is a team that couldn't sweep Michigan, couldn't sweep Ferris St, only got 4 points in 4 games vs NMU, only got splits in at least one of their weekends vs OSU and LSSU, couldn't get a sweep of MSU or Providence, either, and lost to Robert Morris.

NONE of those teams are ranked among the Top 20 in the country. But sweeps of unranked Bowling Green, unranked Colgate, and 4 wins over unranked Alaska puff up their record and makes it look decent.


They only played ONE top 10 team the entire season, 9th ranked WMU, and only got a split vs them. Splits vs #12 ND and #14 Wiscsonsin don't seem all that impressive to me?! Not for the #3 ranked team in the nation, at least.


1-1 vs teams ranked 1-10
2-3 vs teams ranked 11-25


19-5-5 vs unranked teams


#3 ? Come on.



I guess you can make that 19-SIX-5 vs unranked teams, now. lol
 
Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

And........surprisingly Miami has been shutout at least 7 times this season.........pretty unbelievable for a team that won their league and is ranked so highly. I was really surprised at the score last night. This reminds me of several years ago when Lake State played in Oxford in the 2nd round and swept 2-1, 2-1 to go to the Joe. You know that the league really wants MSU and U-M at the Joe for the final, final CCHA tourney.........so heads up, boys. If it's a close game, you won't get the calls in the 3rd:).
 
And........surprisingly Miami has been shutout at least 7 times this season.........pretty unbelievable for a team that won their league and is ranked so highly. I was really surprised at the score last night. This reminds me of several years ago when Lake State played in Oxford in the 2nd round and swept 2-1, 2-1 to go to the Joe. You know that the league really wants MSU and U-M at the Joe for the final, final CCHA tourney.........so heads up, boys. If it's a close game, you won't get the calls in the 3rd:).

It is crazy that whenever we lose we tend to get shutout, but unfortunately I wouldn't say that anyone is surprised anymore. Our defense has been outstanding pretty much all season, the offensive production is just so inconsistent.
 
Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

Did you apply and not get in or something...? Seriously, this crusade sounds personal.


It's not really like that fellowes. I'm actually a guy who respects things like academics and research and nerdy stuff like that, even more than a school's athletic resume. So because of that, my ill feelings toward's Miami of Ohio sports teams or fans only comes out when the circumstances warrant. Otherwise, I know that MU's one of the original "Public Ivies", that it has a long and storied history going WAY back, with its rivalry with Cincy being one of the longest running in the nation. Not as long as Minnesota Vs Wisconsin, of course, but almost so. It wouldn't be the type of school I'd choose to go to, but that's not a bad thing, because after my #1 choice, UMn, I'd either choose a scrum party school or a private unaccredited religious school or something.

I will admit that I know a MU fan, and I don't like the guy, but he's not a big hockey fan(so little does he care about their hockey team, he hasn't said one word about it all season), despite his also being a Cincy bb fan and that team not looking so good and despite saying he hated football when I first met him, he became a bandwagoning fb fan first because of Miami's 2003 season and also because Cincy's supposedly done so well in fb recently, lol. So yes, that plays a very small factor in my not being the biggest Miami fan. 2003 was probably Minnesota's best season in cfb in decades, and I had to put up with some idiot MU fan bragging day and night about how MU was SO much better than UMn, because, he said, compare their win/loss records, MU's only got 1 loss, but UMn's got THREE!!! Miami played ONE ranked team all year and got their arses handed to them, and yet the press didn't know any better either. So MU finished the season ranked #10 and UMn finished ranked #20 in the AP. Both teams lost to Iowa, but UMn scored 22 pts on Iowa and MU could only muster 3 pts losing 21-3.

BUT, the much larger factor, that was in play before I met that guy, is the whole, Team A plays a Top rated SOS and has 22-12 record, Team B plays a horrible SOS and has 32-2 record. Fans of Team B tell fan of Team A that his team SUCKS. Well, lets just say I am a fan of Team A and I know that Team B hasn't played much of anyone all season and when they did, they lost.


Now fellowes, you may not be the kind of person who would do that, go on bragging endlessly about how incredible your team is for beating up on a bunch of creampuffs and who would then turn around and ridicule the team with a top rated SOS and because of that schedule, many more losses, BUT...

but the average fans of the Team Bs out there, DO that, and they do that a lot. And that's always bothered me, for the entire 30 years that I've been a sports fan, in fact. And I just happen to be a Minnesota fan, if you couldn't tell, and playing fb or bb in the Big Ten usually leads to my team and/or my fellow conf teams to have tough strengths of schedule. And then in hockey, the same thing, being in the WCHA usually leads to my team and my fellow conf teams to have tough SOSs.


So, my team and sometimes fellow conf mates, have caught flack in the past for losing, and the person giving the flack, was a fan of one of those Team Bs. Examples of Team Bs from this year and the past would be, Gonzaga bb, Cincy fb, MIAMI OF OHIO fb(2003), and in hockey, while some people might say Quinipiac fits the profile? From my personal perspective, I haven't had any run ins with Q fans yet, but I have with Miami and CCHA fans in the past, going way back, so yeah, this late in the year when I see Miami is ranked #3, yet I remember them losing a bunch of games a few weeks back, it made me suspicious and so I did the research and checked em out. I'm a college hockey fan remember, so I'd have already checked out a few other teams, so it wasn't out of a vendetta or anything like that. I honestly wasn't paying a lot of attention to the CCHA this season, partly because I saw that they were pretty weak as a whole.

So when I saw this thread come up the other day, I came by to check it out and saw someone making the comment that Miami of Ohio was going to pummel MSU because MSU sucked so bad, and the implication was that Miami was so awesome or something, or at least in comparison to MSU. So I made a comment that was maybe a little over the top, in a sense I said that MU was possibly the worst #3 rated team in all of history, and a couple people got riled up about it, and so I defended my remarks with the relevant stats and facts. I was called a moron among other things. And no, my feelings weren't hurt, I laughed about it in fact, but then when my prediction of MU losing to lowly MSU came to pass, of course I'm going to come in here and say, "See, I told you so!"


It wasn't a vendetta against Miami of Ohio, it was a weak team that was passing for a great team, because of a weak schedule and apparently NO ONE ELSE in the entire college hockey world having taken a closer look, BUT ME, so when I let everyone in on what I found out when I took that closer look, instead of people recognizing what I was showing them and adjusting the way they think about them, they chose instead to remain deluded and in denial and also chose to lash out at me. Which is fine, I'm not going to step into the ring if I can't take a couple punches, in fact, I'm like Rocky Balboa, I need to take a 100 punches before I get warmed up, lol. Oh, and I always win like Rocky, too, if not the first fight, then in the rematch for sure.



I've done this once before, picked on Miami of Ohio and the CCHA, under my old moniker which I couldn't remember since it had been probably 5 years since I've been in this place, I made the comment that the CCHA was weak, and got ripped into by CCHA fans for posting that opinion. So I posted my predictions for the NCAA tourney, and my prediction was that FOUR WCHA teams would all make it to the Frozen Four and that the CCHA would only win 1 game in the NCAA tourney. I predicted that Michigan, the conf leader, would win their 1st round game, but would lose their 2nd round game, and that all the other CCHA teams would lose their first round games, and I'm guessing you know what happened. I was right on all counts. Michigan went 1-1 and the other CCHA teams, I think there were 3 others, went like 0-3, and the Frozen Four? Yeah, all 4 teams were WCHA teams.


So you can either take heed of what I've posted, and don't bet too much money on Miami or the CCHA this season, and just hope the move to the new conf next year and new recruits ect., and another year to grow and mature and improve their game, will change MU's situation. Sh1t, at least as far as hockey goes, this is the last year I'll be able to pick on them, because the NCHC will be a VERY legit league. You might be able to get some revenge and pick on my Gophers for playing in a weak *** conf, if MSU, PSU, Michigan and OSU don't improve before next year, and for that matter, even Wisconsin. lol
Or you can join the others in here that think that I'm a moron and have no clue what I'm talking about?
 
Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

And no, my feelings weren't hurt, I laughed about it in fact, but then when my prediction of MU losing to lowly MSU came to pass, of course I'm going to come in here and say, "See, I told you so!"

Which makes you a bit of a dick, not an analyst. All I'm saying is that, as a neutral, feel free to make all of the predictions you want. Just don't come back to rub salt in the wound.
 
Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

Which makes you a bit of a dick, not an analyst. All I'm saying is that, as a neutral, feel free to make all of the predictions you want. Just don't come back to rub salt in the wound.


Hey fellowes, as I've tried to tell other posters in this forum, the stats and facts and evidence backed up my original statements, so I wasn't an idiot like they said I was. BUT...

the evidence also points to the FACT that my coming in here the way that I did, kind of made me a little bit of a jerk. So for that I apologize.


Silver lining potential?! I only predicted that MSU would get at least one win. I didn't say that MU would fore sure lose the series.
 
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Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

C'mon Redhawks, you need to do your part to ensure a huge crowd for all the hoopla planed for the final CCHA tournament at JLA. That means losing tonight so the league can have the huge crowds of Maize and Blue........and Green and White. Western did their part.........now step up and take one for the league:)
 
Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

C'mon Redhawks, you need to do your part to ensure a huge crowd for all the hoopla planed for the final CCHA tournament at JLA. That means losing tonight so the league can have the huge crowds of Maize and Blue........and Green and White. Western did their part.........now step up and take one for the league:)
Besides my obvious bias, I thought it would be fun to see all 3 B1G CCHA teams make it to the Joe, just because we supposedly destroyed the conference.



And now that this series is over, I hope no one minds if I go back to argue with this guy:

WolverineTrumpet --
This is HOCKEY, a contact sport. There ARE winners, and there ARE losers. And you can cherry pick a couple anomalies from SCSU's early season ooc schedule, maybe?!
I did not cherry pick from SCSU's ooc schedule, I included all of their ooc games. I did cherry pick SCSU though, considering their NCAA tourney record, we all know how great they are at non-conference games.

But then I'd just respond by doing an indepth analysis of each and every CCHA team and comparing them side by side with WCHA teams with corresponding conf finishes, and then, even then, you wouldn't accept the truth. Because you are a diehard homer fan, and that's fine, I understand your desire to believe your team and your conference is better than it is.
Please do.
Here, I already did some research for you:
The CCHA went 18-13-1 vs the WCHA this year.

I will grant you the top teams in the WCHA are stronger than the top teams in the CCHA and the top teams are the ones that matter. But don't give me some "top to bottom we're better" line of crap. Or talk about the weak teams we get to beat up on our oh-so-easy CCHA schedules. Last I checked (today) UAA and Bemidji are in the bottom 10% of D1 teams. Talk about having weak teams on your conference schedule.

I'll be waiting for your side by side comparison including all teams from the WCHA and the CCHA. I think you might see what I see once you complete it. What I see is the top half, yes the WCHA is stronger, the bottom half, I'd take the CCHA teams.

The NCAA had to tweek how they format the NCAA tourney to make sure there never would be another repeat of 2005, and that has helped the CCHA some. And that is something to be proud of, that the NCAA had to basically figure out some way to HANDICAP the system, hence giving lesser schools from the CCHA some help and holding back the WCHA some, to try to spread out the wealth sort of speak. It was the right thing to do for college hockey, so I'm not *****ing, but to claim that is not what happened, or that the WCHA isn't the strongest conf and always has been the strongest conf, as a whole, from top to bottom, is simply ignoring the truth.

And the CCHA is weak, its that simple. Maybe not as weak as the CHA, but its no where near the WCHA.
Oh, see, there's that "top to bottom" bull. And yes, after the Columbus Frozen Four the NCAA did what they could to prevent an all one conference FF again. It happened once. So, yes, that year, WCHA was the strongest. And the WCHA is always one of the strongest (but of 5 conferences, it's easy to be one of the strongest).

I also greatly enjoy seeing former perennial middle of the pack CCHA UNO team finish middle of the pack in the WCHA, you know, that clearly tougher conference.
 
Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

WolverineTrumpet --

WCHA isn't just "one of" the best confs, it is, HANDS DOWN, the best conf.

In 66 years of NCAA tourney play, 56% of the Champions were WCHA teams. 48% of the Championship game participants were WCHA teams, and 36% of the Frozen Four participants were WCHA teams.

The CCHA has produced a total of 7 Hobey Baker Award winners, well the WCHA has had 14.

And since the 1976 Olympics to the 2010 Olympics, the CCHA had 25 players that played for the US in the Olympics. UMn all by itself had 28 players play for the US & 2 also went on to coach 3 different Olympic teams.

BUT, shall we stick to THIS year?! Let's compare how the different polls and rating systems out there look at the 2 conferences?

--------PWR--KRACH--Massey--USCHO--RPI
UMinn --2-------1--------1---------1-------2
Miami --3-------5--------8---------3-------3 WCHA vs CCHA in heads up comp 1-0-0 (5-0-0 expanded comp)


SCSU --12-----10--------7--------7-------11
NtrDm --9------8--------9--------9-------6 WCHA - 1-0-1 (7-3-0)


UND -----6-----7--------5---------6--------8
WMU ---14----15-------18-------12-------14 WCHA 2-0-1 (12-3-0)


Denv ---13-----9-------10-------13-------12
tOSU ---26----21-------25-------26-------25 WCHA 3-0-1 (17-3-0)


MnSt ----9-----4--------4---------8--------7
FSU ----27----27-------26-------UR-------24 WCHA 4-0-1 (22-3-0)


Wisc ---16-----13-------6--------14-------16
AlaF ----16----26-------28-------UR-------21 WCHA 5-0-1 (26-3-1)


CCU ----25----20-------15-------22-------23
Mich ----30----29-------23-------20-------31 WCHA 6-0-1 (30-4-1)


UMD ----32----UR------33-------UR-------41
LSSU ---42----UR-------34-------UR-------39 WCHA 6-0-2 (32-5-3)


MTch ----UR----27------42-------UR-------47
BlgG ----UR-----30------32-------UR-------37 WCHA 6-1-2 (33-7-5)


BSU -----UR-----52------52-------UR------55
NMU ----UR------33------30-------UR------36 WCHA 6-2-2 (33-10-7)


UAA -----UR-----55------54-------UR------56
MSU -----UR-----41------42-------UR------48 WCHA 6-3-2 (33-13-9)



And I was nice and took out NOU from the comparison instead of taking out our 12th place team. It was easy to pick NOU vs UW, since they were in a sense both right in the middle, because NOU being basically new to the WCHA and having come from the CCHA, felt it was best to not have them count for or against either conf.

As you can see, the WCHA blows the CCHA away basically from top to bottom, with the exception being the very bottom of the WCHA, but why is that? Is it really because those teams are so bad, as you seem to claim WolverineTrumpet???

And NOU isn't kicking WCHA ***, are they? They are in what? 7th in the standings? And with uneven scheduling, that doesn't really mean that much. They are only the 8th best rated team in the WCHA.

If you don't believe me about uneven scheduling, compare UAA's schedule with BSU's. UAA played something like 20 games vs the Top 6 teams in the WCHA, while BSU only played around 14 games vs those same 6 opponents. And UAA played UND in a non-conf game as well, so technically you could say they played 21 games vs those teams compared to 14. That's an incredible 50% difference.

The only teams NOU is beating in the WCHA, for the most part, are the same teams you are bragging about the CCHA's top teams beating up on.

You throw out that 18-13-1 record like you actually have a clue what that means, when you don't. Let's look at those 32 games a little closer, shall we?!

Starting at the bottom, UAA only has 2 wins outside of conf play but those wins were over Canisius & Merrimack, teams that finished 6th & 7th in their confs. They have a tie vs Air Force who finished 2nd in their conf. Granted the AH isn't exactly the 2nd or 3rd, or even the 4th best conf, lol. But still, none of this should be seen as making them worthy to be called a horrible team. And they weren't close calls either, a 2-0 win over Can and a 6-3 win over Merrimack.

Which leaves us with their 2 game series with CCHA 6th place finishers Alaska-Fairbanks. They lost the road game by 1 goal, 2-1, and the home game by 2 goals, 3-1. Not exactly a horrible showing for the WCHA's WORST team vs the exactly in the middle team of the CCHA.

Next is BSU. BSU only had 1 win out of conf, vs CCHA 8th place team LSSU and it was a pummeling, too, by 5 goals & a shut out no less.

They lost 2 games vs LSSU and WMU by 2 goals and 4 goals, and both were shut outs. But this is the 11th place WCHA team remember playing the 3rd place and 8th place CCHA teams. And BSU got a 2-2 tie vs 3rd place WMU in the other game vs them.

So in 4 games vs the CCHA's 3rd & 8th place teams, the WCHA's 11th place team scored 7 goals & allowed 8.

In its other games it lost 2 one goal games to Mass and UNH. UNH isn't a lowly team, but only lost to them by one goal, in OT no less.


It was about here that my suspicion when you posted that the CCHA went 18-13-1 vs the WCHA this season was exactly what I thought it was, the CCHA's better teams beating up on the WCHA's worst teams, for the most part.

The CCHA played a total of 12 games vs UMn, UND, Mn St, CC, DU, SCSU & UW. So 12 games vs the Top 8 teams.

Yet they played a total of 20 games vs the bottom 5 teams in the WCHA.


LOL though, even though they TRIED picking on the bottom feeders, let me continue my analysis with the next team up in the standings, Michigan Tech, lol.

MT played 2 games vs LSSU and lost by 2 goals in the road game, but won by 4 goals in the home game.
Total points scored? 10 by MT and only 8 by LSSU. In one of those classic 2 game series', MT wins!!!!

MT played 2 games vs NMU, and yes, they were both 10th place finishers in their conferences, so should be a good and equal matchup if the CCHA is stronger than the WCHA at the bottom, right?!

MT lost by 1 goal in the road game, but won by 6 goals in the home game, lol.
total points scored? 9-4 in MT's favor, MT wins by a HUGE margin!!!!!

Now, we see MT playing against 3rd place WMU and 7th place Michigan. Now here for sure the CCHA's strength should surely show vs one of the WCHA's lowliest teams, right?!

MT beats Michigan 4-0. Yep, a shutout.
MT beats WMU 4-0. Yep, another shutout.

That was an 8-0 weekend sweep for MT vs supposedly much better CCHA teams.

That gave MT a 4-2 record vs the CCHA.


0 vs Mn St, 0 vs CC, 0 vs DU, 2 vs SCSU.

4 vs BSU, 5 vs UMD, 6 vs MT

Anyone else notice sort of a trend?! Hey, maybe its the WCHA top dogs who won't schedule CCHA teams? CC and DU are both a long ways away, so that could be a factor. I'm not so much trying to say that the CCHA scedules this way on purpose, but what I am trying to say is DON'T GO BRAGGING ABOUT IT!!!!!!!

Now I still haven't gotten to the UMD analysis yet. UMD played 2 games vs 4th place CCHA team OSU.

UMD lost 1 game by 1 goal & won 1 game by 4 goals.
total points scored 8-5 in UMD's favor, UMD wins!!!!

Notice any other trends here?! Higher placing CCHA conf teams taking on the bottom feeders in the WCHA & the WCHA teams are winning most of the 2 game series' so far.

UMD also played 2 games vs 2nd place CCHA team Notre Dame.
These are both road games for UMD and UMD gets the split by scores of 3-1 and 1-4.

total points scored go to 2nd place Notre Dame over 9th place UMD by a dominating 5-4 margin!!!!!!

NOU played 2 games vs NMU and won by 3 goals and lost by 1.
total points scored 6-4 with the advantage going to NOU. Which should be expected seeing at it was the 7th place WCHA team vs the 10th place CCHA team.
And they played 1 game vs 2nd place ND and lost by 1 goal.

Wisconsin started out slow this season and yes, lost 2 games of NMU, not so good. But they came back and got a very even split with CCHA Champions Miami, and remember, Wisconsin is only the 6th place finisher in the WCHA, and they won by 1 goal and lost by 1 goal.

UND played 3 road games vs CCHA teams, 2 of them vs 2nd place Notre Dame, where they got a split with ND getting the slight edge in goals scored 6-4. And a 1 goal loss to Alaska-Fairbanks.

But just in this analysis, it can be seen that the home teams did better than the road teams, almost every game.

So all that leaves really is the 3-0 that Minnesota pummeled CCHA teams by, including a 12-2 two game drubbing of MSU, who granted is in last place, but also a 4-1 pounding of 2nd place Notre Dame. And then the embarrassment that is SCSU, which you already highlighted.

And the WCHA being the stronger conference has been shown as well over time definitely in the long term, and even in the short term.

Just this 21st Century, the WCHA has 7 Titles to the CCHA's 1.

7 to 1. --- And 19 FFs to the CCHA's 11. --- 19 to 11.

My prediction, for this year, will be 2 or more WCHA teams will end up in the FF, and a WCHA team will probably win the Title as well, while the CCHA may get only 1 win in the entire NCAA tournament. Maybe they'll get 2? But I wouldn't bet on it, and I'd be shocked if they got a single team to the FF.

Massey's Ratings came very close to picking the right teams in the FF in 2004, 05 and 06, the only 3 years I really looked at, while the other years looked pretty close just glancing over them. And the Massey Ratings have 5 WCHA teams rated among his Top 7 teams, so it would be a good assumption that the WCHA's going to have a great post season this year.

There also is not a single CCHA team among the Top 7 teams in the Massey Ratings. And only 2 in the Top 16.

But hey MichiganTrumpet, at least this is your last year in the lowly CCHA. Next year you'll be where Michigan and your conf mates MSU and OSU should be, with Minnesota, Wisconsin and Penn St.!!!
 
Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

It was about here that my suspicion when you posted that the CCHA went 18-13-1 vs the WCHA this season was exactly what I thought it was, the CCHA's better teams beating up on the WCHA's worst teams, for the most part.

The CCHA played a total of 12 games vs UMn, UND, Mn St, CC, DU, SCSU & UW. So 12 games vs the Top 8 teams.

Yet they played a total of 20 games vs the bottom 5 teams in the WCHA.
And 15 of the 32 games were against the CCHA's bottom 5 teams. I'm underwhelmed by your arguements.


Just this 21st Century, the WCHA has 7 Titles to the CCHA's 1.

7 to 1. --- And 19 FFs to the CCHA's 11. --- 19 to 11.
Frozen Fours are 18 to 12.
Where'd you get your numbers? I'm not giving the WCHA credit for Bemidji in '09 'cause they weren't in the WCHA and would not have made the tournament without the CHA autobid. And I like that you went with the 21st century so you could count that all WCHA FF. Good move.

And 6 to 1 on the titles.
Oh, I see you're counting 2000. Lame. Until the end of 2000 it was still the 20th century. So if you want to include 2000, then, hey, why not include the 90s as well? After all, you argued that the WCHA being the top conference has shown well over time. I'll even start with 1990 to give the WCHA credit for UW's championship (and Northern's in '91 since I believe they were a WCHA team at that time).

26 - 24 in favor of WCHA for Frozen Four appearances....starting to look pretty even.
9 - 5 in favor of WCHA on titles.

Then again, maybe I should have picked 1992-2012, then it could be
24-24 Frozen Four appearances
7 - 5 titles (WCHA)

But what do these numbers prove? They show that the top teams in the WCHA are some of the strongest teams in the country.

Your side by side comparisons, which I discredit since you included a poll, instead of just going with the different rating systems, still show the top WCHA teams are some of the best. But they show the bottom teams aren't. And don't give me, "they play a hard schedule" as an arguement, SoS is factored into those rating systems.

And I still can't figure out how you decided which team won the comparison, for Notre Dame vs SCSU you called it a tie despite ND being ranked higher in a majority of the ratings/polls, but for Mich vs CC you gave CC the comparison for being higher in a majority (but not all) of the ratings/polls. So if you had called Notre Dame vs SCSU a win for ND...then your overall adds up to 6-4-1 starting to look a little more even. And this in a down year for the CCHA, where 2 of the usual powerhouses finished bottom half and performed miserably all season.

Your numbers also show the bottom half of the CCHA is stronger than the bottom half of the WCHA (a 1-3-1 WCHA record). [sarcasm] How do those WCHA teams survive such a brutal schedule week in and week out? [/sarcasm]

But let's go back to your original arguement that started us on this conference **** measuring contest.

"Miami is a weak #3"
and then you show Miami ranked #3 in PWR, RPI, USCHO poll, #5 in KRACH, #8 in Massey? 3 of the 5 ratings/polls you chose to use agree Miami is #3.
That #5 in KRACH is a wopping .2 (242.3 vs 242.1) in ranking behind #4 Mn St.

Is there another team that you believe is worthy of being #3? Or are you just saying there is a large jump between #1 and 2 and #3?

In that case, do you think Quinnipiac is a solid #2? Sure, most everyone will respect their record, and say "good for them", but how many people think Quinnipiac will be a Frozen Four team?
 
Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

And 15 of the 32 games were against the CCHA's bottom 5 teams. I'm underwhelmed by your arguements
.

Yeah, see 15 out of 32 isn't even half. And quite a few of those bottom 5 CCHA teams just played the bottom 5 WCHA teams, so I'm even more underwhelmed by your counter-argument.

Frozen Fours are 18 to 12.
Where'd you get your numbers? I'm not giving the WCHA credit for Bemidji in '09 'cause they weren't in the WCHA and would not have made the tournament without the CHA autobid. And I like that you went with the 21st century so you could count that all WCHA FF. Good move.

Yes, I was including BSU in those #s. Forgot that they were not yet WCHA. And yes they benefitted by getting the CHA autobid, but after getting the bid they were good enough to then make it to the FF. So maybe they would have made the tourney had they been in the WCHA THAT particular year with that team. Not saying to count them, I'm just saying.

And 6 to 1 on the titles.
Oh, I see you're counting 2000. Lame. Until the end of 2000 it was still the 20th century. So if you want to include 2000, then, hey, why not include the 90s as well? After all, you argued that the WCHA being the top conference has shown well over time. I'll even start with 1990 to give the WCHA credit for UW's championship (and Northern's in '91 since I believe they were a WCHA team at that time).

On the same token, if you want to include the 90s, why not include the 80s and 70s where the WCHA got AT LEAST 5 Titles each decade?! It's simple, I don't care if you want to try to cherry pick what years you look at, that's up to you. I picked the 21st Century, because its a HUGE significant milestone in history, and I'm sorry that by so doing you think it skewed the argument. Start in 2001 then, I don't care, a 6-1 advantage is how much less significant than a 7-1 advantage?! I mean, come on, by doing that all you are doing is adding another WCHA title to the 70s. I'd say the 90s or 80s, but see, the WCHA was winning so often that however you jumble the #s or dates, it just always seems like they are winning a lot, and usually more than anyone else.
Adjusting to your feeling 1999-2000 should be part of the 21st Century,

01-present - WCHA 6 titles - CCHA 1 title, and 17 to 12 in FFs.
1991-2000 - WCHA 3 titles - CCHA 4 titles, and 9 to 12 in FFs.
1981-1990 - WCHA 5 titles - CCHA 3 titles, and 16 to 8 in FFs.
1971-1980 - WCHA 6 titles - CCHA 0 titles, and 12 to 2 in FFs.

ttl since 71 - WCHA 19 titles - CCHA 8 titles, and 53 to 34 in FFs. OR
ttl since 81 - WCHA 13 titles - CCHA 8 titles, and 41 to 32 in FFs

Don't know why I'd give you a break & not count the 70s against the CCHA, but its probably because as a WCHA guy I don't need that dominating decade to show WCHA is better than the CCHA, SIGNIFICANTLY better. And it would be unfair to compare the 2 conferences until AFTER the WCHA sent you 3 of its best programs to try to even things out a bit.

26 - 24 in favor of WCHA for Frozen Four appearances....starting to look pretty even.
9 - 5 in favor of WCHA on titles.

Then again, maybe I should have picked 1992-2012, then it could be
24-24 Frozen Four appearances
7 - 5 titles (WCHA)

But what do these numbers prove? They show that the top teams in the WCHA are some of the strongest teams in the country.

Like I said above, if you want to cherry pick the time period to try to manipulate the stats to favor you, that's fine. Do it. But when you go out of your way to randomly manipulate the time period, its OBVIOUS to everyone what you are doing, so that skews whatever conclusion you come to and shows the weakness of your OVERALL argument.

Yes, the CCHA was better in the 90s than it has been the last 15 years. The WCHA still sandwiches that peak period for the CCHA with dominating long term periods before and after.


Your side by side comparisons, which I discredit since you included a poll, instead of just going with the different rating systems, still show the top WCHA teams are some of the best. But they show the bottom teams aren't. And don't give me, "they play a hard schedule" as an arguement, SoS is factored into those rating systems.

You discredit my comparisons because I included a poll? I was just trying to be thorough & include every poll & rating I knew of that was generally recognized by the hk community at large. My argument is sound & is so strong that it doesn't matter which rating you use, my argument still plays out. Granted some rating systems are far more beneficial to my argument, & hence why I tried to include them ALL, so as not to try to manipulate the argument. It doesn't need to be manipulated.

Since there are 5 polls/rating systems, why don't you pick out 2 that you absolutely refuse to honor, and I'll do the same, like when they select a Jury, and maybe we'll be left with only 1 or 2 that we can both live with and then I'll show you, using that one, in more detail exactly what I am talking about.

And go ahead and show me just how hard you are trying to manipulate this process by throwing out the 2 systems that favor the CCHA the least instead of throwing out the 2 systems that are the worst systems. I can try to be unbiased here, because I am confident in my argument. Can you be unbiased?!


And I still can't figure out how you decided which team won the comparison, for Notre Dame vs SCSU you called it a tie despite ND being ranked higher in a majority of the ratings/polls, but for Mich vs CC you gave CC the comparison for being higher in a majority (but not all) of the ratings/polls. So if you had called Notre Dame vs SCSU a win for ND...then your overall adds up to 6-4-1 starting to look a little more even. And this in a down year for the CCHA, where 2 of the usual powerhouses finished bottom half and performed miserably all season.

Wow, really?

You really do only see what you want to see, don't you. I could have called the ND vs SCSU comparison a win for ND, but then I could have also called UMD vs LSSU a win for UMD, making it a 7-4 decision heavily in the WCHA's favor seeing as I excluded NOU and not UAA.
But I didn't, I called them both ties, how on earth is that being unfair or unbiased?! I called them ties because both comparisons were too close, in my opinion, to be called for either side. But you didn't notice that part, did you?
All you noticed is what you wanted to see. Too funny how this conversation has been that way from the beginning.


But let's go back to your original arguement that started us on this conference **** measuring contest.

"Miami is a weak #3"
and then you show Miami ranked #3 in PWR, RPI, USCHO poll, #5 in KRACH, #8 in Massey? 3 of the 5 ratings/polls you chose to use agree Miami is #3.
That #5 in KRACH is a wopping .2 (242.3 vs 242.1) in ranking behind #4 Mn St.

Is there another team that you believe is worthy of being #3? Or are you just saying there is a large jump between #1 and 2 and #3?

In that case, do you think Quinnipiac is a solid #2? Sure, most everyone will respect their record, and say "good for them", but how many people think Quinnipiac will be a Frozen Four team?

I stand behind my statement, that Miami is arguably the worst #3 rated team EVER in the history of college hockey.

And of course I supplied the poll and ratings that showed Miami to be consistently OVERrated at #3. Because I'm NOT cherry picking. I'm NOT trying to manipulate the facts to "fool you" into seeing what I see.

Did you notice where the Massey Ratings have Miami? #8. I definitely feel that the Massey Ratings are the most accurate. The KRACH would probably be the 2nd most accurate, although I still think that sytem has too many flaws. I sure wish Jeff Sagarin & Ken Pomeroy were college hockey fans, because college hockey could use some REAL LEGITIMATE analysis of its teams.
College hockey is stuck with the retarded PWR, the lame ash RPI, and the better, but still not that great KRACH ratings. Thank goodness for Massey including college hockey or I wouldn't know where to go for good analysis. I'd probably just have to do it all myself, and that becomes rather time consuming when you don't get paid to do that kind of thing.
 
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Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

Since you are all about combined scores and such, Miami outscored MSU 8-5 this weekend even with losing a game 3-0. On the other hand Minneosota only outscored Bemidji State 6-4. By the rankings comparisons you made above, MSU>Bemidji. Does this make Minnesota the worst #1/2 seed of all time? This is how it works right?:rolleyes:
 
Re: I can't believe there's no MSU - Miami thread

Since you are all about combined scores and such, Miami outscored MSU 8-5 this weekend even with losing a game 3-0. On the other hand Minneosota only outscored Bemidji State 6-4. By the rankings comparisons you made above, MSU>Bemidji. Does this make Minnesota the worst #1/2 seed of all time? This is how it works right?:rolleyes:

You didn't factor in tradition. Minnesota actually outscored BSU 26-4.
 
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