I will admit that I am a younger fan and still learning about the game. Growing up in Indiana everything is basketball oriented, but I have grown to watch college hockey every weekend during the winter and early spring. With conference realignment affecting hockey just like football, it made me wonder if or more likely when the Frozen 4 will become like basketball and expand its tournament. I know that this thread will probably draw some critique, but the sport is growing as people like me are being introduced to the sport. I can see more programs springing up as the popularity grows. Thus I ask the question when tournament expansion will begin and how many teams would be added?
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How long until tournament expansion?
- Thread starter ac9er
- Start date
gopheritall
New member
Re: How long until tournament expansion?
3 words..Bee, See, Ess. That would fix it all. The only question is, should we call them bowls or something else.
Just razzing you. I see no need to expand unless there is major program expansion. I, personally, don't see it happening. I would love to see it but the regionals will need to sell out regularly before they should expand. The catch is that they really need to double the teams to keep the structure intact.
3 words..Bee, See, Ess. That would fix it all. The only question is, should we call them bowls or something else.
Just razzing you. I see no need to expand unless there is major program expansion. I, personally, don't see it happening. I would love to see it but the regionals will need to sell out regularly before they should expand. The catch is that they really need to double the teams to keep the structure intact.
Hammer
We'll be back.
Re: How long until tournament expansion?
I think it's going to be a while. We've had a lot more contraction over the past decade than expansion. Penn State had a donor throw them $85 million to start the program. And then the guy (or his family, I'm not certain which) went and bought an NHL team for the hell of it. There aren't too many people in this time and market that are going to do that.
I think it's going to be a while. We've had a lot more contraction over the past decade than expansion. Penn State had a donor throw them $85 million to start the program. And then the guy (or his family, I'm not certain which) went and bought an NHL team for the hell of it. There aren't too many people in this time and market that are going to do that.
Re: How long until tournament expansion?
depends upon what proportion of teams you want to make the tournament, and how widespread the participation. i can't see any way to justify expanding the number of 'wild cards' above current, and there aren't that many new conferences to receive auto-bids.
let's say you want no more than 25% of eligible teams to make it; you'd need at least 64 teams to hit target; even at 72 teams you probably would stick at a 16-team field.
if you expect around 25% of eligible teams to make the tournament, you'd need at least 80 teams to hit target.
in other words, to many people a 16-team tournament with, realistically, fewer than 58 potential teams (do you ever expect the AHA to have two teams in the tournament? if no, then you have 50 potential teams) already has a few too many slots per potential team. i'd say no serious consideration of expansion unless there are over 70 programs.
depends upon what proportion of teams you want to make the tournament, and how widespread the participation. i can't see any way to justify expanding the number of 'wild cards' above current, and there aren't that many new conferences to receive auto-bids.
let's say you want no more than 25% of eligible teams to make it; you'd need at least 64 teams to hit target; even at 72 teams you probably would stick at a 16-team field.
if you expect around 25% of eligible teams to make the tournament, you'd need at least 80 teams to hit target.
in other words, to many people a 16-team tournament with, realistically, fewer than 58 potential teams (do you ever expect the AHA to have two teams in the tournament? if no, then you have 50 potential teams) already has a few too many slots per potential team. i'd say no serious consideration of expansion unless there are over 70 programs.
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Re: How long until tournament expansion?
I think the day might come, but it is a good ways down the road.
NCAA hockey is easily the one D-1 sport with the most growth upside potential over the next decade or two. The other sports have all basically plateaued in that regard.
To justify expanding the tournament field to say, even 20 teams, IMHO, I think you'd need to have a minimum of another 16 teams playing D-1 hockey.
Problem is, its an expensive sport to fund/endow. Title 9 considerations are also another big factor.
The teams that currently exist can aide this process by getting more people to their games. More people at games equals more revenue. More possible revenue equals more interest by more schools in having D-1 hockey. The attendance figures at most D-1 hockey schools are a joke, which is the biggest obstacle to the expansion of the sport at the collegiate level, to date.
That, and having the Frozen Four in asinine locations like Tampa.
I think the day might come, but it is a good ways down the road.
NCAA hockey is easily the one D-1 sport with the most growth upside potential over the next decade or two. The other sports have all basically plateaued in that regard.
To justify expanding the tournament field to say, even 20 teams, IMHO, I think you'd need to have a minimum of another 16 teams playing D-1 hockey.
Problem is, its an expensive sport to fund/endow. Title 9 considerations are also another big factor.
The teams that currently exist can aide this process by getting more people to their games. More people at games equals more revenue. More possible revenue equals more interest by more schools in having D-1 hockey. The attendance figures at most D-1 hockey schools are a joke, which is the biggest obstacle to the expansion of the sport at the collegiate level, to date.
That, and having the Frozen Four in asinine locations like Tampa.
mnstate0fhockey
New member
Not even that good.
Re: How long until tournament expansion?
We are already over the percentage the NCAA uses to determine how many teams can go into national tournament and we may lose more teams in the future (see UAH).
We are already over the percentage the NCAA uses to determine how many teams can go into national tournament and we may lose more teams in the future (see UAH).
Re: How long until tournament expansion?
Good luck finding 22 billionaires who would like to direct their charitable contributions toward a bunch of over-privileged kids with knives strapped to their feet instead of global health, famine relief, low income housing, etc. It's now happened once in the last, what - well I guess ever, and that guy is enough of a hockey fan that he's also an NHL owner. Finding 22 more like him is going to be a long wait!
Exactly. They granted a waiver to go above 25% (16/58 = 28%) in order to get rid of the byes, so even the NCAA acknowledged that they dislike the byes enough that it was worth breaking their own rules to eliminate them. Therefore, even if we got over 64 teams, they're not going to turn around and break the rules to add byes back into the tournament prematurely. Therefore, we won't see an expansion to 20 in the tournament until we actually have 80 D-1 teams, so we'll need an additional 22 Terry Pegulas to step forward and start programs.
Good luck finding 22 billionaires who would like to direct their charitable contributions toward a bunch of over-privileged kids with knives strapped to their feet instead of global health, famine relief, low income housing, etc. It's now happened once in the last, what - well I guess ever, and that guy is enough of a hockey fan that he's also an NHL owner. Finding 22 more like him is going to be a long wait!
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: How long until tournament expansion?
The tournament already has too many teams per NCAA rules. To have 16 teams they need 64 NCAA teams playing D1 Men's Ice Hockey. We have a waiver as has been mentioned. They could cut it at any time back to 12.
The tournament already has too many teams per NCAA rules. To have 16 teams they need 64 NCAA teams playing D1 Men's Ice Hockey. We have a waiver as has been mentioned. They could cut it at any time back to 12.
bronconick
Yep, still here
Re: How long until tournament expansion?
This is why there has been a couple dozen schools reported as "looking into the matter" and outside of Moorhead, that is all that has come of it.
Even Big Ten schools aren't going to jump at this. It's 36 scholarships a year, a likely need for a new arena, and it's not like your share of the BTN profits are going to increase by adding a hockey team.
The next push by the conference will probably be to get 3 more teams to add Lacrosse. You can get by with using other facilities for that anyway. Michigan's brand new team is playing at the Big House with Oosterbaan field house "if necessary". Total cost of facility upgrades: $500,000.
This is why there has been a couple dozen schools reported as "looking into the matter" and outside of Moorhead, that is all that has come of it.
Even Big Ten schools aren't going to jump at this. It's 36 scholarships a year, a likely need for a new arena, and it's not like your share of the BTN profits are going to increase by adding a hockey team.
The next push by the conference will probably be to get 3 more teams to add Lacrosse. You can get by with using other facilities for that anyway. Michigan's brand new team is playing at the Big House with Oosterbaan field house "if necessary". Total cost of facility upgrades: $500,000.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: How long until tournament expansion?
Lacrosse is going to be huge. Hockey is always going to be a niche sport.
Lacrosse is going to be huge. Hockey is always going to be a niche sport.
du78
Gunning For 10
Re: How long until tournament expansion?
BU announced today they are going from club to varsity in Lax in 2013/14. They will also add women's lightweight rowing.
http://www.laxpower.com/laxnews/news.php?story=26865
Furman University will be adding men's and women's Lax in 2014/15 and I just heard DU's Coach Tierney indicate that he expects USC would be adding a men's program in the future.
BU announced today they are going from club to varsity in Lax in 2013/14. They will also add women's lightweight rowing.
http://www.laxpower.com/laxnews/news.php?story=26865
Furman University will be adding men's and women's Lax in 2014/15 and I just heard DU's Coach Tierney indicate that he expects USC would be adding a men's program in the future.
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