How do we determine the top players?

[YabaDabaDoo]

Re: How do we determine the top players?

Yes, there is god given talent agreed but I do believe that the god makers have a hand in this sport just like the media in politics,

Case in point:

I was at the Colgate game last night, I don't know who writes the after game write ups and who reports the stuff but, The shots on net as reported was backwards and our goalie wasn't really tested? maybe 4 or 5 legit opportunities "one of which they scored? the rest were mainly dump ins on net? I just read the reporting of the game "Stellar Performance by rookie goalie Rando. We controlled 85% of the game! It wasn't until they pulled their goalie at the end and had the man advantage that they scored but to read the writeup you think we had just beaten MN?

So that kind of stuff and the camps that ONLY the selected players can attend "And i'm not talking about the USA stuff" but there are Summer training camps that are largely free to the anointed and a few slots for friends of friends but it is at those camps that's were really good players get great and the exposure to the exceptional team participation at the Chowda and Bean town are created and all the who's who go to watch. Just try to contact or squeeze your little darling on one.

The rich get richer and the talented get better!

Anyway like like what I have read, there are a lot of really great points!

 

[CLUBTEAMS]

Re: How do we determine the top players?

I may have misunderstood the "topic/subject".

I was speaking of the Top Elite of the game.

Please do not take this the wrong way but your mentioned game between Colgate & Union do not have " TOP ELITE" players on their rosters. They have good players but I would not consider them to be Elite.

 

[YabaDabaDoo]

Re: How do we determine the top players?

I may have misunderstood the "topic/subject".

I was speaking of the Top Elite of the game.

Please do not take this the wrong way but your mentioned game between Colgate & Union do not have " TOP ELITE" players on their rosters. They have good players but I would not consider them to be Elite.

I was not eluding to the calibre of the players on either of the teams, moreover I was commenting on the perception portrayed by the writers.

 

[Call It]

Re: How do we determine the top players?

HOW DO WE DETERMINE THE BEST PLAYERS?



IMHO the Best Players have it at birth. God given talent. Gretz comes to mind, as we all watched him at the age of 9 school everyone. And he was not doing this because of off-ice training or working out, trust me. It was Natural talent.

Players with Natural elite level talent can be identified at a very young age. Lam twins come to mind, Stack comes to mind, Kessel comes to mind, Dar & Potter come to mind...Knight, Agosta, Saulnier, Polin, etc... All these players were identified at a very young age. Why? Again, Natural born talent.

I have seen the following in an interview as well but can't find it.

However, Gretzky denied that he had any exotic innate abilities. He said that many of his advantages were a result of his father's brilliant coaching.
Some say I have a 'sixth sense' . . . Baloney. I've just learned to guess what's going to happen next. its anticipation. It's not God-given, its Wally-given. He used to stand on the blue line and say to me, 'Watch, this is how everybody else does it.' Then he'd shoot a puck along the boards and into the corner and then go chasing after it. Then he'd come back and say, 'Now, this is how the smart player does it.' He'd shoot it into the corner again, only this time he cut across to the other side and picked it up over there. Who says anticipation can't be taught?[

 

[backcheck]

Re: How do we determine the top players?

Walter Gretzky was undoubtedly a great coach and dad. He did have more than one son however, so I think a combination of talent and coaching is likely at play in Wayne. He was also the first at practice and the last to leave, so besides possessing a great love for the game he also had a great work ethic.

There are some excellent observations on this thread regarding which measures are applicable to objectively compare players. How does one measure a player on a weaker team without the benefit of stronger line mates with which to play-make? For forwards i would add shots on goal as they can help determine if a player can generate scoring opportunities.

 

[AggiesHockey]

Re: How do we determine the top players?

HOW DO WE DETERMINE THE BEST PLAYERS?
...
IMHO the Best Players have it at birth. God given talent. Gretz comes to mind, as we all watched him at the age of 9 school everyone. And he was not doing this because of off-ice training or working out, trust me. It was Natural talent...

I'm gonna say that when it comes to hockey, there's no such thing as natural born talent. Everything aspect the biomechanics of hockey has to be learned. I venture to guess that Gretzky could hardly stand up on skates the first time he put them on.

He may have a natural talent for learning complex biomechanics--maybe better coordinated than most of us. That, combined with a passion for the game, a desire to master skills, and great coaching, is a recipe for success. Combine that with a strong desire to win, and a strong hatred of losing. IMHO, what separates the greats from the rest of us.

I've seen this a lot. Some kids might be pretty darned awkward when first shown a new skill. But they have passion for the game, and put in the extra time, and pretty soon are wowwing you with their skills. Other kids just want to be there. No passion, no work ethic, no attention span, and they just don't climb the skill ladder very fast. Frustrating for a coach, and I'm sure many parents who want their little Natalie to excel.

 

[Golden Tuuk]

Re: How do we determine the top players?

Everything aspect the biomechanics of hockey has to be learned. I venture to guess that Gretzky could hardly stand up on skates the first time he put them on.

And some will learn much quicker. Wayne was skating backwards his second time out.

 

[CLUBTEAMS]

Re: How do we determine the top players?

No natural born? Ok...
You can take your "biomechanics" and go sell that to everyone in your circle of BS.

I was at the rink the other day before my D practice. On the ice were mini-mites. There was one particular mini-mite that looked like he had been skating for 10 years. I couldnt figure out the "Biomechanics" element?

He was 6, crossing over , keeping his feet moving, twice as quick & much faster than his peers. How was he 5x a better skater?

Biomechanics or Natural talent?

 

[Eeyore]

Re: How do we determine the top players?

No natural born? Ok...
You can take your "biomechanics" and go sell that to everyone in your circle of BS.

I was at the rink the other day before my D practice. On the ice were mini-mites. There was one particular mini-mite that looked like he had been skating for 10 years. I couldnt figure out the "Biomechanics" element?

He was 6, crossing over , keeping his feet moving, twice as quick & much faster than his peers. How was he 5x a better skater?

Biomechanics or Natural talent?

That's a lot of mockable elements right there. Grant, are you using a second login?

 

[goldy_331]

Re: How do we determine the top players?

No natural born? Ok...
You can take your "biomechanics" and go sell that to everyone in your circle of BS.

I was at the rink the other day before my D practice. On the ice were mini-mites. There was one particular mini-mite that looked like he had been skating for 10 years. I couldnt figure out the "Biomechanics" element?

He was 6, crossing over , keeping his feet moving, twice as quick & much faster than his peers. How was he 5x a better skater?

Biomechanics or Natural talent?

What happened to the "H" part of your earlier post where you said "IMHO"? Now you know everything and anyone who disagrees with your "HO" knows nothing apparently.

 

[OnMAA]

Re: How do we determine the top players?

No natural born? Ok...
You can take your "biomechanics" and go sell that to everyone in your circle of BS.

I was at the rink the other day before my D practice. On the ice were mini-mites. There was one particular mini-mite that looked like he had been skating for 10 years. I couldnt figure out the "Biomechanics" element?

He was 6, crossing over , keeping his feet moving, twice as quick & much faster than his peers. How was he 5x a better skater?

Biomechanics or Natural talent?

Probably a kid with a good set of fast twitch muscles. At that young an age, some kids may appear to be fast by moving their feet quickly. Center of gravity as a young age is much lower than when you grow up, so anyone with quick feet tends to be quick on the ice. It is not always bio-mechanics, although that does help.

Having said that, don't underestimate the importance of bio-mechanics. Things like working on the right balance, proper knee bend, creating a low profile are all important in getting the most out of every skating stride. Now some are born with better bio-mechanical alignment than others, but working hard on correcting and improving deficiencies can go a long way to make you faster. Off course you need to combine that with proper strength and endurance training for it to be useful. Even on my D's college team some of the faster players have great bio-mechanics, while others have a lot of impurities, but possess such strength/power that they move fast anyways. For the latter group, it is less efficient and requires more power.

At the end of the day, Natural talent helps you get there quicker, no pun intended, but nothing replaces hard work and dedication to become good at it. You brought up Wayne Gretzky in an earlier post. Well he was on the ice pretty much 10 hours a day starting at age three, so by the time he was 9 or 10, he had probably more than twice the practice time of most of his peers. Sure he was born with a talent, but also spend umpteen well documented hours on the ice honing that skill at a young age. Nothing beats a good work ethic and dedication.