Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

[hockeymakesmebroke]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

Have to wait for the schedules, but because the last place and second-to-last place HE teams both had success at Ridder last year, I would expect Holy Cross will have a decent chance of early season success if Minnesota picked them up.

HC will be alright, they had 1 goal games last season with Dartmouth, Harvard and RIT without really recruiting. Coach Lachapelle was very active in recruiting last season. She may be the heir apparent at HC so was probably given some tools to help recruit. As for Sacred Heart, they too did more recruiting than they have in the past. Biggest issue I see there is their Independent status. If they could get into a conference it would strengthen their schedule and be better for them as well as women's hockey in general as it creates more opportunities for girls to play.

 

[CrossCheck]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

I think what he meant was that they've always played D3/D2 schedule. They've always been very strong with that type of schedule and they've always been very successful in terms of wins and losses. I think their transition to D1 hockey is not going to be that hard. They are already better than several D1 teams.

...I think you could say that about several D3 teams [i.e. better than several D1 teams]. Platty, Norwich, Elmira, Adrian and the top of the nescac come to mind. I never considered HC anything special when they were D2.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

HC will be alright, they had 1 goal games last season with Dartmouth, Harvard and RIT without really recruiting. Coach Lachapelle was very active in recruiting last season. She may be the heir apparent at HC so was probably given some tools to help recruit. As for Sacred Heart, they too did more recruiting than they have in the past. Biggest issue I see there is their Independent status. If they could get into a conference it would strengthen their schedule and be better for them as well as women's hockey in general as it creates more opportunities for girls to play.

CHA would take Sacred Heart anytime they want to join to fill out the conference. They just don't want. Too big an investment - scholarships and travel costs. Playing D3 level hockey in New England keeps them Title IX compliant without crazy expenses.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

...I think you could say that about several D3 teams [i.e. better than several D1 teams]. Platty, Norwich, Elmira, Adrian and the top of the nescac come to mind. I never considered HC anything special when they were D2.

This is an old argument, but I totally disagree. 10+ years ago the top D3 teams could regularly beat D1 teams, but that is an absolute pipe dream nowadays. Even Bill Mandigo, who used to recruit using this story, has given up on that illusion. As an example at the top of the D3 heap, a piece of what has made Plattsburgh successful over the years is D1 transfers (such as Erin Brand, who came from Syracuse after 1.5 seasons and barely played there). These players typically end up being one of the best players on the Plattsburgh team but couldn't get a regular shift on a middling or weak D1 team. So you're telling me a team that has a cast off player from a weak D1 program as one its best players can compete regularly with D1 teams? You are dreaming. This is a story that D1 wannabes tell themselves when they can't get a spot at a D1 school. Might they win a game once on the strength of crazy goaltending or luck? Sure, maybe, but regularly - not a chance.

 

[shelfit]

This is an old argument, but I totally disagree. 10+ years ago the top D3 teams could regularly beat D1 teams, but that is an absolute pipe dream nowadays. Even Bill Mandigo, who used to recruit using this story, has given up on that illusion. As an example at the top of the D3 heap, a piece of what has made Plattsburgh successful over the years is D1 transfers (such as Erin Brand, who came from Syracuse after 1.5 seasons and barely played there). These players typically end up being one of the best players on the Plattsburgh team but couldn't get a regular shift on a middling or weak D1 team. So you're telling me a team that has a cast off player from a weak D1 program as one its best players can compete regularly with D1 teams? You are dreaming. This is a story that D1 wannabes tell themselves when they can't get a spot at a D1 school. Might they win a game once on the strength of crazy goaltending or luck? Sure, maybe, but regularly - not a chance.

Agreed in general. I think you meant Bill Mindmyego...I think that's his real name. He used to actually believe he could beat a lot of D1 teams and not just the bad ones (he might still believe it). He would tell potential recruits "What do you want to go there for?! We could beat that team any day of the week" referring to whatever D1 school the potential recruit said she was being pursued by. Classy! Lol.

 

[D2D]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

10+ years ago the top D3 teams could regularly beat D1 teams, but that is an absolute pipe dream nowadays.

Interesting to look at RIT which moved up to D1 in 2012-13. In their last two years at D3 they went a combined 54-3-3; they were (obviously!) a real D3 powerhouse. Then in their first two seasons at D1 (2012-13 and 2013-14) they managed to win more than half of their games, going 36-31-8, presumably while retaining a good many players from their D3 championship roster. But it's been downhill ever since those first two years at the D1, culminating with this past season's dismal 4-28-3.

If anything you'd think the trend would have gone in the opposite direction, with an improving record as the entire roster became comprised of all "D1-level" players.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

Agreed in general. I think you meant Bill Mindmyego...I think that's his real name. He used to actually believe he could beat a lot of D1 teams and not just the bad ones (he might still believe it). He would tell potential recruits "What do you want to go there for?! We could beat that team any day of the week" referring to whatever D1 school the potential recruit said she was being pursued by. Classy! Lol.

In fairness to Mandigo at the time, 10+ years ago his teams COULD probably have beaten the bottom quarter of D1 teams on a regular basis... and I've heard him say EXACTLY the words you quoted about 7 years ago!

 

[shelfit]

Interesting to look at RIT which moved up to D1 in 2012-13. In their last two years at D3 they went a combined 54-3-3; they were (obviously!) a real D3 powerhouse. Then in their first two seasons at D1 (2012-13 and 2013-14) they managed to win more than half of their games, going 36-31-8, presumably while retaining a good many players from their D3 championship roster. But it's been downhill ever since those first two years at the D1, culminating with this past season's dismal 4-28-3.

If anything you'd think the trend would have gone in the opposite direction, with an improving record as the entire roster became comprised of all "D1-level" players.

Your post outlines exactly why many of us feel it's past time for a coaching change there. His reputation caught up to him a few years ago and that's why he can't get the same level of recruits that he used to get. When they were still a D3 program he would sell recruits that they were going D1 and he did that for several years before they finally made the move up. That's how he got a lot of those very good players but he can't do that anymore. What goes around comes around. If he doesn't get fired I'll be very surprised. However it is May and no announcement has been made yet so maybe he still has some contract time left and they are just playing that out. Others on here are closer to the program and probably know how much time he has left on his contract but I would guess that once his contract is over then he's going to be shown the door very quickly. It's probably going to hit him on the *ss on his way out and that would be the best thing for that program.

 

[CrossCheck]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

This is an old argument, but I totally disagree. 10+ years ago the top D3 teams could regularly beat D1 teams, but that is an absolute pipe dream nowadays. Even Bill Mandigo, who used to recruit using this story, has given up on that illusion. As an example at the top of the D3 heap, a piece of what has made Plattsburgh successful over the years is D1 transfers (such as Erin Brand, who came from Syracuse after 1.5 seasons and barely played there). These players typically end up being one of the best players on the Plattsburgh team but couldn't get a regular shift on a middling or weak D1 team. So you're telling me a team that has a cast off player from a weak D1 program as one its best players can compete regularly with D1 teams? You are dreaming. This is a story that D1 wannabes tell themselves when they can't get a spot at a D1 school. Might they win a game once on the strength of crazy goaltending or luck? Sure, maybe, but regularly - not a chance.

disagree all you want. you can't tell me the top d3 teams couldn't beat RIT and teams of that ilk...which was my point.

As for you falling for Mandingo's recruiting bull****...well, that's on you I suppose. Pretty hard not to see through that phony in about 3 minutes after meeting him the first time.

 

[shelfit]

disagree all you want. you can't tell me the top d3 teams couldn't beat RIT and teams of that ilk...which was my point.

As for you falling for Mandingo's recruiting bull****...well, that's on you I suppose. Pretty hard not to see through that phony in about 3 minutes after meeting him the first time.

Agree he's full of sh*t but did you purposely type Mandingo instead of Mandigo?! And 3 minutes??? What the heck took you so long?!?! One sentence out of his mouth is all it takes...not even 30 seconds! Put him at a school like Wesleyan, Southern Maine, NEC, Cortland, Chatham, St. Olaf, St. Ben's, or many others and he'd be someone none of us ever heard of before. Imagine how much he'd whine if he was at any of those schools!!! The difference is the refs would ignore him because he wouldn't be some big blowhard of a coach with a winning record.

 

[CrossCheck]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

Agree he's full of sh*t but did you purposely type Mandingo instead of Mandigo?! And 3 minutes??? What the heck took you so long?!?! One sentence out of his mouth is all it takes...not even 30 seconds! Put him at a school like Wesleyan, Southern Maine, NEC, Cortland, Chatham, St. Olaf, St. Ben's, or many others and he'd be someone none of us ever heard of before. Imagine how much he'd whine if he was at any of those schools!!! The difference is the refs would ignore him because he wouldn't be some big blowhard of a coach with a winning record.

Yes on Mandingo...and the 3 minutes would include the handshake, taking a seat, and talking about the weather...so you're probably about right on the 30 sec.

 

[HockeyEast33]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

disagree all you want. you can't tell me the top d3 teams couldn't beat RIT and teams of that ilk...which was my point.

As for you falling for Mandingo's recruiting bull****...well, that's on you I suppose. Pretty hard not to see through that phony in about 3 minutes after meeting him the first time.

I can tell you the top D3 teams can't beat RIT regularly .... and in fact I actually did.

I have no idea what you're saying in the second part - who fell for his BS? I didn't - I just noted that is what he used to say and in the far distant past there was some limited truth to it.... reading comprehension is hard.

 

[D2D]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

I can tell you the top D3 teams can't beat RIT regularly .... and in fact I actually did.

Just curious, and I realize there's no sure way to tell, but just speculating:
Do you think that this past season's RIT team would "regularly" beat their national championship 2011-12 D3 team?

 

[shelfit]

Just curious, and I realize there's no sure way to tell, but just speculating:
Do you think that this past season's RIT team would "regularly" beat their national championship 2011-12 D3 team?

Not a snowball's chance in hell.

 

[obserbear]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

Agree he's full of sh*t but did you purposely type Mandingo instead of Mandigo?! And 3 minutes??? What the heck took you so long?!?! One sentence out of his mouth is all it takes...not even 30 seconds! Put him at a school like Wesleyan, Southern Maine, NEC, Cortland, Chatham, St. Olaf, St. Ben's, or many others and he'd be someone none of us ever heard of before. Imagine how much he'd whine if he was at any of those schools!!! The difference is the refs would ignore him because he wouldn't be some big blowhard of a coach with a winning record.

Your personal feeling about Coach Mandigo aside, it is hard not to acknowledge the contributions Coach Mandigo, Middlebury College, and Friends of Panther Hockey have made to women's hockey. While the schools you mention may not have the financial resources of Middlebury College, the community involvement Coach Mandigo's teams engage in is something that promotes and enriches all participants and yields tremendous fan support for the DIII women's game.

 

[CrossCheck]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

I can tell you the top D3 teams can't beat RIT regularly .... and in fact I actually did.

I have no idea what you're saying in the second part - who fell for his BS? I didn't - I just noted that is what he used to say and in the far distant past there was some limited truth to it.... reading comprehension is hard.

My reading comprehension is just fine. You made the comment about Mandingo and intimated that you had personal experience...but perhaps you were just puffing as usual.

As for RIT, again you're way off. If they struggled with HC, they would certainly have problems with the top of D3 [which, BTW HC never was]....and but for their goalie, they'd have trouble with more than that.

 

[joecct]

Re: Holy Cross and Sacred Heart Programs

Is it better for RIT being a big fish in a small (D3) pond or a little fish in a big (D1) pond?

 

[shelfit]

Is it better for RIT being a big fish in a small (D3) pond or a little fish in a big (D1) pond?

It was and would be better for them to be a big fish in a small pond. It would be interesting to see how they would do without being able to say "Hey come play for us. We're moving up to D1 soon." I don't think they would win the D3 national title without that sales gimmick anymore.