HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

[Patronick]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

OK, let me simplify this for you (hope this attempt works). Just because one player outscores another and therefore wins an award, doesn't automatically mean that player is better than the other. There are these things called eyes and going beyond the numbers. For example, a highly talented kid coming to BC might be buried on the depth chart for a year or two, thus keeping his numbers down. I give you Barry Almeida as an example. Open up your mind. The bigger point here is that using the fact that Wilson scored more points in HE regular season games as the ONLY criterion in determining Wilson is better shows how shallow you are.



No, no, no. By neutral observers, I meant people/fans who regularly saw the two play over the course of the entire season (not just the 27 league games--LOL). We're talking Hockey East fans here. The answer would be Gaudreau. But ya, a player raising his game in huge games is...something to hold against them? Dear God...

Those final two stat lines were all regular season games, not 27 Hockey East games. Wilson was the better, more consistent player last season. Gaudreau did raise his game in the post season, but if we're talking the whole season it doesn't even come close. The only reason Gaudreau is in the conversation is because of his post season. If he had finished the HE and NCAA tournaments scoring at the same rate as the regular season, your argument would be laughable. You want me to believe that anyone who saw these two play the whole season would pick Gaudreau, yet you ignore that fact that he vanished for three months of the season? You say awards don't mean anything, so I give you the stats. Now stats don't mean anything, it's "eyes and going beyond the numbers"?

I'm done with this "debate". I can't argue with someone who has zero evidence to back his claim up, other than the "eye" test and claiming a theorized group of neutral observers would agree with him. That's so much better than a silly award and being ahead on the stat sheet when judging performance, right?

Good luck this weekend.

 

[UMLFan]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

So it's just going to be Wilson vs Gaudreau on the ice, I take it?

 

[sterlippo1]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

You Gaudreau fanboys are really sensitive, huh?

no, us Gaudreaubey Baker faboys are not sensitive!............................. I got home from work tonight and my neighbor who works in administration at UML left 2 tickets AND a parking pass in my mailbox!!!
Fivehole12, more beer money!!

 

[FiveHole12]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

You guys can argue all you want about stats and awards.
Personally, I wouldn't trade Gaudreau for any TWO players in Hockey East.

 

[FiveHole12]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

no, us Gaudreaubey Baker faboys are not sensitive!............................. I got home from work tonight and my neighbor who works in administration at UML left 2 tickets AND a parking pass in my mailbox!!!
Fivehole12, more beer money!!

Woot! Now that's one helluva neighbor.

 

[J.D.]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

Those final two stat lines were all regular season games, not 27 Hockey East games. Wilson was the better, more consistent player last season. Gaudreau did raise his game in the post season, but if we're talking the whole season it doesn't even come close. The only reason Gaudreau is in the conversation is because of his post season. If he had finished the HE and NCAA tournaments scoring at the same rate as the regular season, your argument would be laughable. You want me to believe that anyone who saw these two play the whole season would pick Gaudreau, yet you ignore that fact that he vanished for three months of the season? You say awards don't mean anything, so I give you the stats. Now stats don't mean anything, it's "eyes and going beyond the numbers"?

I'm done with this "debate". I can't argue with someone who has zero evidence to back his claim up, other than the "eye" test and claiming a theorized group of neutral observers would agree with him. That's so much better than a silly award and being ahead on the stat sheet when judging performance, right?

Good luck this weekend.

First of all, I'm glad you're done as it means I won't have to read another response from you on the topic. By all means, use stats. I've already conceded that that is why Wilson won the ROTY--an award he more than deserved. For some reason, you just don't want to acknowledge that I've said this.

"but if we're talking the whole season it doesn't even come close. The only reason Gaudreau is in the conversation is because of his post season. If he had finished the HE and NCAA tournaments scoring at the same rate as the regular season, your argument would be laughable."

Um, so you wanna talk the "whole" season but continue to want to hold it against Gaudreau that he put up monster numbers in the biggest games of the year against the best competition--games that count if we're talking the "whole" season. this is beyond retarded logic on your part. would you rather him put up multiple hat tricks against UVM and then disappear on the biggest stage? would that somehow make my argument about him being better than Wilson stronger???

And just so I'm clear, posting a 4-5-9 line in a single, arbitrary 19 game stretch is now the equivalent of "vanishing"? In what universe? I also never said awards don't mean anything. They just don't mean everything.

Let me ask you something, what do scouts do for a living? They use their eyes and watch games, correct? Would you say they use their eyes a lot? Now, where you were drafted doesn't mean everything either, especially when you consider guys are drafted based on size a lot of the time. But, when a miniature Gaudreau is drafted three rounds ahead of a 6' Wilson, what does that tell you? Does that not qualify as some evidence that Gaudreau might be a better player? They were both basically PPG players last year and Gaudreau got to that point by doing it against the best competition down the stretch. Nothing to sneeze at or somehow turn it against him for not doing it against UMass on a Tuesday night in November. You remain to be the only person on here who I've seen say "Scott Wilson IS a better hockey player than John Gaudreau". Why is that? (never mind, you're done. don't respond).

 

[REDMEN2002]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

Except he was better last year. And you can tell, because he was voted ROTY, not Gaudreau. Fact. Science.

We're 3/4 games into this season. We can decide who's better when the seasons over.

You also said UML was going to wipe the floor with UVM a couple of weekends ago. You've certainly built up a lot of equity in this area.

 

[Carmine Scarpaglia]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

You're going to have to refresh my memory. Maybe it's me, maybe I'm just getting old. Who won Hockey East Rookie of the Year? Wilmer...Weller...Whammy....WILSON! Sheesh, I was way off!

If you want to cast Wilson off after three games, go ahead. It wouldn't be the first ridiculous thing you've said on these boards.

I guess you think Bazin is a better coach than York by virtue of his HE COTY award last year too. Just following along the line of logic you're using.

Anyone else agree with Patronic that Bazin is a better coach than York?

 

[J.D.]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

I guess you think Bazin is a better coach than York by virtue of his HE COTY award last year too. Just following along the line of logic you're using.

Anyone else agree with Patronic that Bazin is a better coach than York?

You forgot the other part of his logic. Clearly all the coaches that voted for him think he is a better coach than York.

 

[John_Fuller]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

Since I'm not going to get into the argument of who's player or coach is a bigger boy toy on the ice, I'll attempt to put the thread back onto point.

For the first time in awhile, I see a BC/Lowell series with more questions than answers but at this point, Lowell has more to lose than BC. Going back to February 11th of last year, the River Hawks are just 3-4-2 in the nine games (including playoffs) at the Tsongas Arena, with all three of those wins coming against Providence College. As mentioned, there should be another 6000+ crowd at the Tsongas on Friday and the Lowell faithful are going to be looking for nothing short of a win.

On the whole, I was very happy with the split in Colorado from last weekend; sure I'll agree with most that not starting Carr in Denver was a mistake and that third period was a complete meltdown. But you have to give credit to the freshmen goalie who kept the game competitive for 40:00 against a national power in their barn. Putting that game away in the third period at CC was a huge burden release for the guys, especially giving them some much needed momentum heading into this weekend.

Really curious to see how the special teams will fare this weekend. Both teams have 15-17 PIM/g this season but it's hard to ignore BC's 17/18 on the PK and 25% PP, regardless of competition. While Lowell have been getting the shots "on net", Monty and other have mentioned some of its woes with our top returners. Five goals (one of those an EAG) through three games simply isn't going to cut it at any level no matter how one slices it.

Obviously, I haven't seen BC live but their first two road games can't be labeled as exemplary. Losing to NU 3-1 to start the season can be easily dismissed as a NC letdown, but going down three to UMA before staging a mad comeback to win the game in overtime can't make the BC fans all too happy or feel comfortable. I don't see either of the two teams blowing three goal lead to the other on their home ice.

Both teams came away with a positive result on Saturday and I'm going to go into the game with an open mind. It just smells of a home split. I would not be surprised to see a tie in one of the barns this weekend but do agree that neither team is on track right now to sweep the other. A sweep would be a shocker on either side of the coin. If Lowell is on the losing end, a disappointment. Then again, if Lowell is on the other end of the sweep coin, that UVM tie will be long forgotten.

 

[inyorkwetrust]

Except he was better last year. And you can tell, because he was voted ROTY, not Gaudreau. Fact. Science.

We're 3/4 games into this season. We can decide who's better when the seasons over.

We decided after last season. You know, when Johnny and BC won Hockey East and the National Championship and Lowell won the same number of trophies as Vermont.

 

[inyorkwetrust]

I guess you think Bazin is a better coach than York by virtue of his HE COTY award last year too. Just following along the line of logic you're using.

Anyone else agree with Patronic that Bazin is a better coach than York?

Excellent point. One sort of successful season and these UML people think they're on pace with the elite teams in the country. It's absurd.

 

[J.D.]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

Hopefully the comeback against UMass and the shutout of NU lead to a good first period for BC on Friday night. Don't want to make a habit of falling behind by multiple goals, let alone on the road.

 

[SteveF]

So it's just going to be Wilson vs Gaudreau on the ice, I take it?

Hopefully, since we all know who would win

 

[Tater]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

So it's just going to be Wilson vs Gaudreau on the ice, I take it?

Hopefully, since we all know who would win

Colin Wilson. Oh sorry, wrong Wilson.

Any team would love to have Wilson, but Gaudreau is just plain filthy and on another level. Of course his stock went up during the postseason but that makes it all the better. He kept on getting better and better as the stakes got higher.

 

[UMLFan]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

Excellent point. One sort of successful season and these UML people think they're on pace with the elite teams in the country. It's absurd.

First of all, it's one Lowell fan arguing about Wilson. Secondly, there's no one saying that Lowell in on pace with the elite teams in the country. But other than that, your reading comprehension is wonderful.

 

[inyorkwetrust]

First of all, it's one Lowell fan arguing about Wilson. Secondly, there's no one saying that Lowell in on pace with the elite teams in the country. But other than that, your reading comprehension is wonderful.

All I've heard from Lowell fans since midway through last season is how great your team is, how you'll be the top seed this year and win Hockey East. You guys had a nice little season last year, but anything other than cautious optimism is excessive.

If you're one of the exceptions to that observation, then you're obviously exempt from my statement. Feel free to move along.

 

[FiveHole12]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

Obviously, I haven't seen BC live but their first two road games can't be labeled as exemplary. Losing to NU 3-1 to start the season can be easily dismissed as a NC letdown, but going down three to UMA before staging a mad comeback to win the game in overtime can't make the BC fans all too happy or feel comfortable. I don't see either of the two teams blowing three goal lead to the other on their home ice.

Both teams came away with a positive result on Saturday and I'm going to go into the game with an open mind. It just smells of a home split. I would not be surprised to see a tie in one of the barns this weekend but do agree that neither team is on track right now to sweep the other. A sweep would be a shocker on either side of the coin. If Lowell is on the losing end, a disappointment. Then again, if Lowell is on the other end of the sweep coin, that UVM tie will be long forgotten.

Actually, the UMass game gave this fan a lot more confidence in this team. That game may be the defining moment on how this season goes for the Eagles.

I expect a tough battle at Tsongas. Your boys will be balls to the wall I'm sure, as it may be their only shot at a W over the weekend. They have no idea what to expect on Sunday... the team has a war horse, yet continues to ride a pony into some of the bigger battles.

 

[Onion Man]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

Wilson's good. It's just that he's not as good as Gaudreau. Wasn't last year, won't be this year, probably never will be. Of course there's no shame in that but then you argue about the ROTY and ... oh try to spit that hook out.

Anyone who thinks Wilson is better than Gaudreau needs to have his/her head examined.

 

[Nick Papagiorgio]

Re: HE Preseason #1 vs #2 ... Lowell vs BC (10/26 and 10/28)

Hopefully, since we all know who would win