Has UND lost in conference realignment?

[dogs2012]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

If I think the statement is wrong, why can't I respond?

Minnesota has a bigger fanbase and larger following than UND.

Let's see if you let that stand

I would almost make the argument it's more impressive that UND has as large of a following as they do, considering the twin cities alone has twice the population as the entire state of North Dakota. You should have a large following, UND shouldn't. The fact that they do, and rival the Gophers fandom, is pretty ridiculous.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

I would almost make the argument it's more impressive that UND has as large of a following as they do, considering the twin cities alone has twice the population as the entire state of North Dakota. You should have a large following, UND shouldn't. The fact that they do, and rival the Gophers fandom, is pretty ridiculous.

I never said the Gopher's following was more impressive. That's subjective. I think the Gopher fanbase is the best in the country, but that is my biased opinion. I can certainly see why some might say UND's following is more impressive. Small school with a relatively big, passionate fanbase. That is impressive.

 

[Dirty]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

If I think the statement is wrong, why can't I respond?

Minnesota has a bigger fanbase and larger following than UND.

Let's see if you let that stand

Well at least now you're no longer claiming you've proved cross cheque wrong. Since that's all I was looking for you to do, I shall be happy. Thanks JDubbs!

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

I guess I don't understand. The Gophers get plenty of coverage in the Twin Cities right now. Why would that change?

All but one game is televised this year. They are talked about a good deal on 1500 ESPN and KFAN (Lou Nanne, Kevin Gorg, Tom Chorske, Beyond the Pond, ect...). They get more newspaper coverage than most teams in the country too.

Playing traditional Big Ten opponents that casual fans can relate to will likely only increase interest and coverage in my opinion.

Just because the games are televised doesn't mean they are easy to find. How many games are going to be bumped to fsn plus because the Timberwolves are on on the same night? Not only that, but just because the games are televised doesn't mean anyone is going to watch them either. They are barely talked about at all on KFAN. Lou Nanne talks about them maybe 2 or 3 minutes a week. No one listens to beyond the pond.

You think high school hockey players are sitting in every Friday and Saturday night to watch college hockey? Kids in my high school didn't. If Minnesota and UND are both recruiting a kid from the Twin Cities 3 or 4 years from now, do you think that Hakstol can't compare and contrast the two schools and tell the kid the advantages of playing for North Dakota? Do you think that the kid can't go online to find out as much as he wants to about how good the hockey team is and how nice the facilities are? When the hockey program is one of the top 5 in the nation (like North Dakota is), kids are going to know. If North Dakota's program takes a step back, it isn't going to be because of a lack of TV exposure.

 

[IrishHockeyFan]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Earlier in this thread it was posted that Notre Dame was one of the teams driving the formation of the NCHC, pushing it as much as any other school behind the league. Not true. While they were involved in some of the discussions as the NCHC was forming, and considered joining as a founding member, they did not push for it's formation and then abandon it for different pastures out east. Any claim to the contrary by random college hockey bloggers is untrue. The amount of conjecture and shoddy journalism exhibited by many in that field was shameful. Things presented as fact that were mere speculation. Claims made without a single quote from anyone remotely connected to the Notre Dame hockey program or the ND athletic dept.

They did take a wait-and-see attitude and when the smoke cleared, surprised some and accepted an invitation to HE. And, to my chagrin, they did what every other team did unfortunately which was to act in their own interests first. Plenty of teams have blood on their hands there. Notre Dame's share of the blame is that they did not do enough to maintain most of the status quo, which would have lent stability to a very unstable situation.

Also, another poster brought forth the topic of Notre Dame -- and possibly BC??? -- eventually being convinced to join the B1G. Again, not true. Notre Dame is not ever going to join the Big Ten. Never. My mission in life is to convince the rest of you that this is carved in stone. Notre Dame is not joining the Big Ten. Not for hockey, not for some sports but not football, and not with the entire athletic department. Not in part, not in whole.


And finally, can't all the rest of you do what I did -- and what his mommy and daddy did I'm sure years ago -- and put JDUBBS on ignore. Every poster who has been around this forum for longer than 60 seconds knows what he will eventually say about anything, sooner rather than later. If you don't want to do that, I humbly request that when you feel the need to respond to yet another post about how Minnesota is the bee's knees about everything, do it without quoting. This way those of us who DO have him on ignore won't need to be subjected. Think of it as my attempt to avoid second hand smoke.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Just because the games are televised doesn't mean they are easy to find. How many games are going to be bumped to fsn plus because the Timberwolves are on on the same night? Not only that, but just because the games are televised doesn't mean anyone is going to watch them either. They are barely talked about at all on KFAN. Lou Nanne talks about them maybe 2 or 3 minutes a week. No one listens to beyond the pond.

You think high school hockey players are sitting in every Friday and Saturday night to watch college hockey? Kids in my high school didn't. If Minnesota and UND are both recruiting a kid from the Twin Cities 3 or 4 years from now, do you think that Hakstol can't compare and contrast the two schools and tell the kid the advantages of playing for North Dakota? Do you think that the kid can't go online to find out as much as he wants to about how good the hockey team is and how nice the facilities are? When the hockey program is one of the top 5 in the nation (like North Dakota is), kids are going to know. If North Dakota's program takes a step back, it isn't going to be because of a lack of TV exposure.

Everything you say is somewhat true, but you aren't thinking about things in relative terms. And BTW, just to remind you we are talking about visibility in the Twin Cities area here.

Who's games are easiest to find on TV in the Twin Cities? In most of Minnesota? Who has more games on TV in the Twin Cities? In most of Minnesota? Which team is going to see a significant decrease in games on TV in the Twin Cities? In most of Minnesota?

Anyone can find info on ANY team on the Internet. True. But who will they know more about, the team they see on TV every week or the team they read about on the Internet? If less kids watch UND play here in Minnesota, there is less likelihood they will grow up a fan. Less visibility in an area is NEVER a good thing.

And I watched games when I was in high school playing, and long before then. Yes, Hakstol can and probably will try and sell kids on the virtues of UND. But there will be far less Danny Kristos who grew up watching UND in Eden Prairie and became a fan as a kid. The Gophers have had significant success out recruiting other programs in the Twin Coties for a reason. More visibility. That advantage is going to become an ever bigger one.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Earlier in this thread it was posted that Notre Dame was one of the teams driving the formation of the NCHC, pushing it as much as any other school behind the league. Not true. While they were involved in some of the discussions as the NCHC was forming, and considered joining as a founding member, they did not push for it's formation and then abandon it for different pastures out east. Any claim to the contrary by random college hockey bloggers is untrue. The amount of conjecture and shoddy journalism exhibited by many in that field was shameful. Things presented as fact that were mere speculation. Claims made without a single quote from anyone remotely connected to the Notre Dame hockey program or the ND athletic dept.

They did take a wait-and-see attitude and when the smoke cleared, surprised some and accepted an invitation to HE. And, to my chagrin, they did what every other team did unfortunately which was to act in their own interests first. Plenty of teams have blood on their hands there. Notre Dame's share of the blame is that they did not do enough to maintain most of the status quo, which would have lent stability to a very unstable situation.

Also, another poster brought forth the topic of Notre Dame -- and possibly BC??? -- eventually being convinced to join the B1G. Again, not true. Notre Dame is not ever going to join the Big Ten. Never. My mission in life is to convince the rest of you that this is carved in stone. Notre Dame is not joining the Big Ten. Not for hockey, not for some sports but not football, and not with the entire athletic department. Not in part, not in whole.


And finally, can't all the rest of you do what I did -- and what his mommy and daddy did I'm sure years ago -- and put JDUBBS on ignore. Every poster who has been around this forum for longer than 60 seconds knows what he will eventually say about anything, sooner rather than later. If you don't want to do that, I humbly request that when you feel the need to respond to yet another post about how Minnesota is the bee's knees about everything, do it without quoting. This way those of us who DO have him on ignore won't need to be subjected. Think of it as my attempt to avoid second hand smoke.

Everyone except the people with wool pulled over their eyes knows Notre Dame wasn't the sole driver for the formation of the NCHC.

And why the personal attack? I think I have been far more reasonable and complimentary than anyone I have engaged in discussion with in this thread. More adult discussion and less foot stomping with fingers in your ears please.

 

[dogs2012]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Everything you say is somewhat true, but you aren't thinking about things in relative terms. And BTW, just to remind you we are talking about visibility in the Twin Cities area here.

Who's gamesare easiest to find on TV in the Twin Cities? In most of Minnesota? Who has more games on TV in the Twin Cities? In most of Minnesota? Which team is going to see a significant decrease in games on TV in the Twin Cities? In most of Minnesota?

Anyone can find info on ANY team on the Internet. True. But who will they know more about, the team they see on TV every week or the teamthey read about on the Internet? If less kids watch UND play here in Minnesota, there is less likelihood they will grow up a fan. Less visibility in an area is NEVER a good thing.

Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying. But you're assuming that kids will base which team they like on what they see on TV. Think Alabama in football. You don't have to see Alabama on TV to know that they're a premiere football school. Regardless of whether you watch them or not, if you're a D-1 football recruit and Nick Saban knocks on your door, you're going to play for him. It's the same with Hakstol and UND. He shows up at your door, shows you the 7 national championships and the athletic facilities, and if you think it's a good fit for you, you play there.

 

[cross cheque]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Fanbase size?

This began and has continued to be about following, you have gone off the highway about size of which there is no empirical evidence at least none that you have discovered or referenced.

I have more of a consensus than you or Cross Dress do among reputable fans of other teams.

Again no evidence to support this claim. It's just like, your opinion man.

And I'll add, I supported my premise far better than he did.

No you didn't you haven't given one shred of evidence to support anything you've said, same old JDUBBS. "Hey does anyone know Puck Swami? He told me the moon is made of cheese and I hear he's really respected so I'm just gonna go ahead and say this: The. World. Is. Made. Of. Cheese."

Who do you think has a larger alum base? Who's school is in a bigger market?

Michigan, Denver, Minnesota, Ohio State, Florida State, Alabama etc....

All but one of the Gopher games this year is on TV. How about UND?

Hey that's great! UND is currently the most followed hockey team in North America though.....

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Don't get me wrong, I get what you're saying. But you're assuming that kids will base which team they like on what they see on TV. Think Alabama in football. You don't have to see Alabama on TV to know that they're a premiere football school. Regardless of whether you watch them or not, if you're a D-1 football recruit and Nick Saban knocks on your door, you're going to play for him. It's the same with Hakstol and UND. He shows up at your door, shows you the 7 national championships and the athletic facilities, and if you think it's a good fit for you, you play there.

Instead of giving you a long winded explanation, let me just ask you this. Why do you think the Gophers have significant success out recruiting all other programs in the Twin Cities? Why do they usually land the kids here that they target?

Now let me ask you this. With less other options on TV, do you think more kids or less kids will grow up Gopher fans? Will there be as many Danny Kristos who grew up watching another team on TV and became a fan of that team at an early age or less of those kids?

Again, not saying UND will never get a Twin Cities or Minnesota kid ever again. But the conference realignment will make their job much more difficult.

 

[cross cheque]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Instead of giving you a long winded explanation, let me just ask you this. Why do you think the Gophers have significant success out recruiting all other programs in the Twin Cities? Why do they usually land the kids here that they target?

Now let me ask you this. With less other options on TV, do you think more kids or less kids will grow up Gopher fans? Will there be as many Danny Kristos who grew up watching another team on TV and became a fan of that team at an early age or less of those kids?

Again, not saying UND will never get a Twin Cities or Minnesota kid ever again. But the conference realignment will make their job much more difficult.

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Cross Cheque - Getting tired of this discussion, so last post on it. I think I have been very fair and complimentary towards your team and fanbase.

In my mind, following can be measured by looking at the following variables.

Fanbase Size, TV coverage, and attendance.

The Big Ten teams have bigger student bodies, and bigger alumni bases. The schools also have more general name recognition and are bigger state and national institutions.

Hard to argue that these teams probably have a bigger overall fanbase. Not saying necessarily more passionate fans, but fanbase overall. That includes casual fans.

Minnesota also has the most extensive TV coverage in college hockey. Hard to dispute. UND is a close second IMO (right now, but I've already discussed your future TV deal elsewhere and we're talking right now).

UND beats Minnesota in attendance. Part of that has to do with arena size, part of it should be credited to your fanbase for consistently turning out.

But TV reaches more people than show up at games and it can be argued that the TV accessability of Gopher games (among other factors) explains the lower game attendance.

Bottom line, I think the Gophers have a larger pool of fans to reach and more accessability for them to do it. As was pointed out by Dogs, the mere fact that UND (a smaller school in a smaller town with less TV accessability) is even close is a big credit to your fanbase.

 

[Tipsy McStagger]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Everything you say is somewhat true, but you aren't thinking about things in relative terms. And BTW, just to remind you we are talking about visibility in the Twin Cities area here.

Who's games are easiest to find on TV in the Twin Cities? In most of Minnesota? Who has more games on TV in the Twin Cities? In most of Minnesota? Which team is going to see a significant decrease in games on TV in the Twin Cities? In most of Minnesota?

Anyone can find info on ANY team on the Internet. True. But who will they know more about, the team they see on TV every week or the team they read about on the Internet? If less kids watch UND play here in Minnesota, there is less likelihood they will grow up a fan. Less visibility in an area is NEVER a good thing.

And I watched games when I was in high school playing, and long before then. Yes, Hakstol can and probably will try and sell kids on the virtues of UND. But there will be far less Danny Kristos who grew up watching UND in Eden Prairie and became a fan as a kid. The Gophers have had significant success out recruiting other programs in the Twin Coties for a reason. More visibility. That advantage is going to become an ever bigger one.

Instead of giving you a long winded explanation, let me just ask you this. Why do you think the Gophers have significant success out recruiting all other programs in the Twin Cities? Why do they usually land the kids here that they target?

Now let me ask you this. With less other options on TV, do you think more kids or less kids will grow up Gopher fans? Will there be as many Danny Kristos who grew up watching another team on TV and became a fan of that team at an early age or less of those kids?

Again, not saying UND will never get a Twin Cities or Minnesota kid ever again. But the conference realignment will make their job much more difficult.

No one said less visibility is a good thing. I just think it will have a very minor impact.

The reason that the Gophers recruit so well in the Twin Cities is because they are the home team. They are the closest team. The kids grew up watching the games with their parents. Your argument seems to be that because UND is going to be on FSN 2 or 4 fewer times a year, that their recruiting power in the Twin Cities will decrease. I don't buy it. I have DirecTV and I don't have the sports package and I get CBS sports network. When I had comcast, it was an extra 8 bucks a month to get the extra sports channels. The games will still be visible. Not that I think many people in the Twin Cities watch UND hockey games, but if they want to watch them they can.

Austin Poganski chose UND. He lives in St. Cloud. He can watch over half of the SCSU games. He can watch almost 100% of the Gophers games. He still chose UND.

The Gophers win more recruiting battles than they lose in the Twin Cities. But you can make a pretty good team with the ones they either lost out on or flat out missed. Nick Mattson, Andrew Prochno, Ben Hanowski, Nick Jensen, Joseph Labate, Tyler Barnes, Tony Cameranesi, Caleb Herbert, Ryan Walters. The only time any of those teams are on TV in the Twin Cities is when they play the Gophers. But there is no shortage of talent in "Gopher Country" and other schools still get their share of good players from that area. I don't think it will change just because the NCHC schools are no longer playing the Gophers 2 or 4 times a year.

 

[cross cheque]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Cross Cheque - Getting tired of this discussion, so last post on it. I think I have been very fair and complimentary towards your team and fanbase.

In my mind, following can be measured by looking at the following variables.

Fanbase Size, TV coverage, and attendance.

The Big Ten teams have bigger student bodies, and bigger alumni bases. The schools also have more general name recognition and are bigger state and national institutions.

Hard to argue that these teams probably have a bigger overall fanbase. Not saying necessarily more passionate fans, but fanbase overall. That includes casual fans.

Minnesota also has the most extensive TV coverage in college hockey. Hard to dispute. UND is a close second IMO (right now, but I've already discussed your future TV deal elsewhere and we're talking right now).

UND beats Minnesota in attendance. Part of that has to do with arena size, part of it should be credited to your fanbase for consistently turning out.

But TV reaches more people than show up at games and it can be argued that the TV accessability of Gopher games (among other factors) explains the lower game attendance.

Bottom line, I think the Gophers have a larger pool of fans to reach and more accessability for them to do it. As was pointed out by Dogs, the mere fact that UND (a smaller school in a smaller town with less TV accessability) is even close is a big credit to your fanbase.

Currently being the most followed hockey team in North America is also a big credit to the UND fan base you insufferable clown .

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Currently being the most followed hockey team in North America is also a big credit to the UND fan base you insufferable clown .

If that were trueit would be

 

[JDUBBS1280]

No one said less visibility is a good thing. I just think it will have a very minor impact.

The reason that the Gophers recruit so well in the Twin Cities is because they are the home team. They are the closest team. The kids grew up watching the games with their parents. Your argument seems to be that because UND is going to be on FSN 2 or 4 fewer times a year, that their recruiting power in the Twin Cities will decrease. I don't buy it. I have DirecTV and I don't have the sports package and I get CBS sports network. When I had comcast, it was an extra 8 bucks a month to get the extra sports channels. The games will still be visible. Not that I think many people in the Twin Cities watch UND hockey games, but if they want to watch them they can.

Austin Poganski chose UND. He lives in St. Cloud. He can watch over half of the SCSU games. He can watch almost 100% of the Gophers games. He still chose UND.

The Gophers win more recruiting battles than they lose in the Twin Cities. But you can make a pretty good team with the ones they either lost out on or flat out missed. Nick Mattson, Andrew Prochno, Ben Hanowski, Nick Jensen, Joseph Labate, Tyler Barnes, Tony Cameranesi, Caleb Herbert, Ryan Walters. The only time any of those teams are on TV in the Twin Cities is when they play the Gophers. But there is no shortage of talent in "Gopher Country" and other schools still get their share of good players from that area. I don't think it will change just because the NCHC schools are no longer playing the Gophers 2 or 4 times a year.

Number of points to respond to here.

Yes, the Gophers win the majority of battles because they are the home team. Or as you put it, the team "kids grew up watching". But guys like Danny Kristo also grew up watching UND. They won't be able to as much anymore. It isn't just two less games. The NCHC's new TV deal wil mean much less UND games on TV in much of Minnesota because of the exclusivity clause.

Austin Poganski isn't a Twin Cities kid. The impact outside the Twin Cities won't be as big as inside IMO.

I never said UND won't get any kids from Minnesota or be able to win any recruiting battles with the Gophers for Twin Cities kids again. I'm saying the conference realignment will probably make it more difficult to out recruit the Gophers for MN kids both teams are vying for (especiallyTwin Cities kids) than it was before.

 

[Pump It Up]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

UND beats Minnesota in attendance. Part of that has to do with arena size, part of it should be credited to your fanbase for consistently turning out.

But TV reaches more people than show up at games and it can be argued that the TV accessability of Gopher games (among other factors) explains the lower game attendance.

Population of the Minneapolis-St. Paul Metro Area: 3,615,902 (US: 13th)

Population of the Grand Forks "Metro" Area: 98,054 (US: 346th)

 

[Pump It Up]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Cross Cheque - Getting tired of this discussion, so last post on it.

Number of points to respond to here.

With apologies to IrishHockeyFan.

 

[4four4]

Re: Has UND lost in conference realignment?

Also, another poster brought forth the topic of Notre Dame -- and possibly BC??? -- eventually being convinced to join the B1G. Again, not true. Notre Dame is not ever going to join the Big Ten. Never. My mission in life is to convince the rest of you that this is carved in stone. Notre Dame is not joining the Big Ten. Not for hockey, not for some sports but not football, and not with the entire athletic department. Not in part, not in whole.

I said "IF" Delaney can recruit Notre Dame and BC to join the Big Ten then all bets are off. To be honest I hope Delaney isn't ever succesful bringing in more schools into the Big Ten. JFR, the Big Ten will never admit schools only for one sport in their minds it is all or nothing.

Here is an interesting post from GopherHole. Notre Dame and Big 10 Historical Perspective

 

[JDUBBS1280]

Population of the Minneapolis-St. Paul Metro Area: 3,615,902 (US: 13th)

Population of the Grand Forks "Metro" Area: 98,054 (US: 346th)

Which is why I said this

Bottom line, I think the Gophers have a larger pool of fans to reach and more accessability for them to do it. As was pointed out by Dogs, the mere fact that UND (a smaller school in a smaller town with less TV accessability) is even close is a big credit to your fanbase.