Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

[ghostofwatson]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

ghostofwatson - I'm not sure if you're trolling or actually serious, but if what you said is why Donato is still coaching, then as a Cornell fan I'm completely in support of keeping him as long as possible.

As a college hockey fan and a rational person in general, there is no debate that Donato should go. He might be a really nicest guy, but it's not good for the league, the players, or college hockey. Of course I would rather see more Cornell beat downs over Harvard, but if these games are not competitive and do not make our players better, it's a lose-lose situation for everyone involved.

Ted's a good guy and a class act. What don't you understand about that? You're right, there is no debate:Ted's job is secure. Ted's probably got a losing record vs. Cornell overall ( what Ivy college doesn't?), so no disgrace there. But he's making progress, and he's done well against Cornell recently-- if you go back ~3 yrs he's probably been about even against them. Be careful what you wish for.

 

[ghostofwatson]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

You couldn't be more wrong and the proof is in the drop in season ticket renewals. I posted about this earlier today. There are more than a few fans who want to see the team win. Look what happened when they brought in Tommy Amaker. Basketball now sells out and I guarantee you that those fans want to see Harvard playing on national TV in March Madness. Those are now the expectations. Amaker is able to recruit kids who study, play, commit to winning and still enjoy the benefits of a Harvard education. The Harvard 'experience' may not be something these athletes can enjoy fully but they don't entirely miss out during their four years on campus. The scholarship argument holds no weight because of the above mentioned basketball example. Harvard has been dealing with that for years including the 80's when we enjoyed our greatest success. We lost players to BC and BU but convinced others to attend (Don Sweeney chose us over Michigan State even though Ron Mason had the inside track).

As far as fun games, what aspect of this weekend's games were fun to you? Missing on two breakaways? Giving up a breakaway to someone who scored only his fourth goal of the season? We aren't even competitive in the Ivy League anymore so your thesis doesn't hold up. I don't expect a national title every ten years. But I do expect us to compete for first in the ECAC and to win the tournament as often as we can with appearances in the NCAAs. Regularly. I don't consider that to be unreasonable.

As far as parking, it's cheaper to park at the B-School parking lot and I get out plenty fast, sellout or no sellout. I can't tell if you are messing with us Ghost or if you really are drinking your Kool Aid. It doesn't matter. We all like Teddy as a person. He is a great guy. No one is questioning his knowledge of the game. But constructing and imparting a system that can win today and getting the talent to buy into that system is what is lacking at the moment. And that won't change as long as he is at the helm.

Season tix sales are down almost everywhere. It's the economy, stupid. Who cares about fair weather fans flying thr coop anyway? Harvard is good entertainment value, but I suppose there will always be a few malcontents, like yourself, who will whine about not winning enough. C'mon get real. This a tough league and it's not like it was back in the 80's when there were weak sisters everywhere in the league. Now, nearly any team can knock off another oagn. But calling for a class act like Ted's head is just classless and ignorant, particularly when it comes from a someone on your own side of the fence. This really sickens me. I wouldn't want you in my foxhole, buddy. Were you calling for Bill Cleary's head when he had a bad stretch of seasons back in the the late 70's, you know before he won the national title? Stop embarrassing yourself with your inane whining. Ted's a good guy, a truly nice guy, and he deserves our support. As for outsiders, non-Harvard fans, who complain about Ted not winning enough, well, who really cares? Worry about your own teams.

 

[Waite21]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Looking at the upcoming weekend's schedule as shown on the USCHO website, it indicates that both the Harvard @ Cornell and Harvard @ Colgate games will be played at Bright Hockey Center.

I assume this is a mistake, but if it's accurate, can anybody tell me why Cornell and Colgate agreed to play their home games at Harvard's rink?

 

[ghostofwatson]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Holy cow, dude. Anyway, as someone else said, you have to be trolling. I would agree that at Ivies, it's not win at all costs. It's not everything. But his performance as HOCKEY coach to date is flat out embarrassing. Harvard should expect better and should do better. Nobody is expecting Ted to compete for a national title every year, but there's a big gape in between that and what he's been producing.

It's a tough league, JD. Ted's a good man doing the best he can. He's frustrated that the wins haven't been there but he's done everything he could. In a perfect world he wouild have been hired as an assistant and groomed gradually for the head coaching position, a la David Quinn. But Harvard rushed things a bit knowing that they had the right man -- maybe not just at the right time. Most coaches come into their first gig with at least some coaching experience, not Ted. He had to learn a lot on the fly and deal with things that weren't his strengths. Maybe he's not always been a details guy. Harvard has hired to support him. Ted's grown as a coach but it can't be seen in just wins and losses. Ted's evolving as a coach at a time when the whole league is strengthening, so you don't see his growth in wins/losses. But he'll tell you that he is a better coach now than he was 3-4 yrs ago. Above all, he's a great guy in a job where that counts for something. Recent years have been bumpy, but look at our roster and you will see real potential for the future. He has assembled some good talent that will bear fruit in years to come. Next year another good class rolls in. The future looks Bright.

 

[northeastern]

It's a tough league, JD. Ted's a good man doing the best he can. He's frustrated that the wins haven't been there but he's done everything he could. In a perfect world he wouild have been hired as an assistant and groomed gradually for the head coaching position, a la David Quinn. But Harvard rushed things a bit knowing that they had the right man -- maybe not just at the right time. Most coaches come into their first gig with at least some coaching experience, not Ted. He had to learn a lot on the fly and deal with things that weren't his strengths. Maybe he's not always been a details guy. Harvard has hired to support him. Ted's grown as a coach but it can't be seen in just wins and losses. Ted's evolving as a coach at a time when the whole league is strengthening, so you don't see his growth in wins/losses. But he'll tell you that he is a better coach now than he was 3-4 yrs ago. Above all, he's a great guy in a job where that counts for something. Recent years have been bumpy, but look at our roster and you will see real potential for the future. He has assembled some good talent that will bear fruit in years to come. Next year another good class rolls in. The future looks Bright.

..if I were a Yale fan, wonder what I'd post in the H hockey thread with less of a giveaway..

 

[CollegeHockeyRinkReport]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Not here to say TD should or should not be fired, but with Yale winning the NCAA championship last season the academic excuse of ghost is a farce.

 

[J.D.]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

not just winning the title though. even without that, yale has been good for about 5-6 years now.

 

[kdiff77]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Ted Donato is a joke. Maybe he's a nice guy, but he's a horrible hockey coach.

I've watched (from afar) the once-proud Harvard program descend into mediocrity. Donato gets great recruits each year (don't you have 8 draft picks or something?) but he doesn't do anything with them.

To suggest that somebody deserves to maintain their job simply because they are nice is silly. If that person is proficient as his or her job, then they should (obviously) stay. But if someone's job performance slips over the years, and there's no denying that Teddy's has, they should be replaced with a more suitable candidate.

Just my two cents. And, as ghostofwatson put it, my opinion is irrelevant because I'm not a Harvard fan. But if I were the Harvard AD, Donato would be cleaning out his office tomorrow in an attempt to salvage this season under new leadership.

 

[sigx15]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I think it's all well and good Ted is a nice guy, and people like him as a person but come on, sometimes its not about wins? Im spoiled as heck being a BC fan but Spaz was a nice guy too, just flat out sucked as a coach. Ted has had 10 years to get it together and they're only getting worse. He hasn't been to the NCAA's since 06, which was a team essentially put together by Mazzoleni. If they lose their last 2 games, he'll have 3 seasons where they didn't reach double digits in wins. I don't think it can get much worse at this point.

The argument that they can't compete with other schools because theyre an Ivy is a joke. Yale put that to bed last year, and it's not recruiting that is the issue either. There's 6 NHL draft picks on the roseter and a few more who will be drafter already committed. Shouldn't be too hard to get hockey players to come to the best school in the whole world.

Just can't see a reason for him to be kept.

 

[LTsatch]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

What's broken, H60? Things are pretty much the same as they've been for decades: Harvard gets players who have interests besides hockey. Big deal. Harvard isn't a hockey factory. If our players wanted that atmosphere they'd head to Hockey East. The kids who really, really want to win games and develop their games are at BC and Michigan, not Harvard. Our players are no different from the rest of the student body for whom sports aren't that important. Our players -- current players-- are concerned about internships, start-up bizzes, getting punched for clubs, and getting laid. Same as it ever was. As a fan coyly calling for Ted's head, H60, you're a voice in the wilderness. Most fans like that they can get good seats at the last minute, park easily and not have to be packed in like sardines to a crowded, loud arena. Ted's earned his glide, he's put in his time and he shouldn't have to put up with a crybaby fan base whining to win games. Kids have more of a sense of entitlement than they did 25 yrs ago, and so do their parents. Ask Mark Mazz. ( Poor bastard, he wanted to win a national title! He actually once said that....with a straight face! ) It's largely a generational thing. Ted has brought in talent but they're not at Harvard on his terms. These kids aren't on athletic scollys, they can do as they please largely. If they want to play hockey, fine, they can play some; if they don't, there's nobody holding a gun to their head. Ted gets the most out these kids and his teams often give a fair effort every night, and most practices, but get real, these kids aren't all in for hockey. They're at Harvard for the full experience and if that means that hockey sometimes takes a backseat to life, so be it. Ted is an outstanding recruiter and a **** good coach. Ted got by in the NHL for as long as he did on his savvy and grasp of the game. There's not a coach in game who understands the game better-- so what if he has trouble communicating that to his players. Everybody has a weakness. But if you're looking for him to win more than half of his games you're living in a fantasy. Ted can't make these kids try, he can only coach them as best he can. It's all on the kids if they want to win, but that's a price that many simply aren't willing to pay. This is not 1989, it's 2014. The kids and their over-involved parents no longer accept that a coach has the last word. Poor Ted shouldn't be judged on wins-losses at a place like Harvard; it should be about keeping these kids out of trouble and graduating, which he has mostly done. Ted has done an outstanding job given the hand he's been dealt, and we should look forward to him coaching the Crimson for years and years to come. We don't need wins and a full capacity, loud Bright. Plus, I love my easy-in- easy-out parking space, and who doesn't

Not looking to pile on , but you might be the most complacent fan ever. Trying to find some tongue in cheek stuff here, but you are actually serious. Watch out what you wish for, by keeping a nice guy around for too long, you can end up with a program in shambles, it happened at Yale, and it took a MAJOR reconstruction of the program, training facilities, arena and staff to begin the upward climb again. There is already too much competition in the northeast for fans and support, to let a storied program like Harvard circle the drain is an insult to the fans and the Administration should be ashamed.

 

[cornellgradyalefan]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

I'll add my two cents to this discussion. Couldn't you make the same argument about the Yale hockey players as GhostofWatson does about Harvard hockey players? These two teams are largely pursuing the same pool of players each year, yet you see a level of commitment to the game and the process of being a college hockey player with the Yale players that you don't see with Harvard. And doesn't that disparity all come down to the standards set by the coach regarding what is expected from the players? I don't know enough about the inner workings of the Harvard program to say whether Donato should stay or go, but this is a lazy argument by Ghost.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

by keeping a nice guy around for too long, you can end up with a program in shambles, it happened at Yale, and it took a MAJOR reconstruction of the program, training facilities, arena and staff to begin the upward climb again.

Taylor was also the US Olympic team head coach and won the Penrose, so he was more than just a "nice guy."

The Allain turnaround is amazing, but I don't think Yale was a chained bulldog waiting for the Old Man to pass on before they broke their leash. There have been systemic changes in college hockey the last decade that have really flattened the difference between Haves and Have Nots. Clarkson has been going through problems at the same time as Harvard. I'm not sure why this is, but ascribing it all to Donato is probably to ignore the bigger picture. That's not to say Donato can't or won't be fired -- at some point you have to win, and there are programs where the window of permissible losing is quite short. I'd have said Harvard hockey was one of them. I would not be at all surprised if a quick playoff exit seals his fate -- losing can create a vicious cycle where top prospects no longer come in, and ADs know this.

 

[Crimson Faced]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Saw this weekend's games, thought they came out flying against Yale, but Yale is a better team at this point. They should be able to beat Brown at home, though. Besides the poor play of the team, the atmosphere at Bright is dismal. I try to be careful criticizing the team because often we have family of the players sitting among us. I was irritated Saturday by Brown's secong goal in which a defenseman was trying to get the puck out of the Harvard zone and lost it, as no one came to help him, and the defenseman stood there, not moving the puck. Brown kept the puck in the zone and scored. I complained to my wife about the play, not using profanity, which I never use there, and not naming names, and the entire family in front of me turned around. I've been a season ticket holder for over 20 years and the poor play and lack of improvement get to you sometimes. There are players who show flashes during their freshman year who never get better. There are a few players there who I don't care if I see them again. Some of the turnovers and lack of execution on the power play are the type of stuff you see early in the season, not this late into the season. But the fact that you are supposed to sit there game after game watching this and not be able to express your opinion, to my wife, for Pete's sake, signifies the atmosphere there. Sit down, shut up, and be bombarded by loud music.

 

[LTsatch]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Taylor was also the US Olympic team head coach and won the Penrose, so he was more than just a "nice guy."

The Allain turnaround is amazing, but I don't think Yale was a chained bulldog waiting for the Old Man to pass on before they broke their leash..

I mean't no disrespect to Coach Taylor. But the alumni money did not pour in until after he left.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Season tix sales are down almost everywhere. It's the economy, stupid.

Oh right I forgot. I guess that must mean that BC, BU, Cornell, UNH, UMass Lowell and Providence continue to sell out their games because, let's see, their teams win more than once in a while and are actually competitive in their conferences??? But because of the economy, yup, they are due for a real downshift in ticket sales. Yup, that must be it.

Who cares about fair weather fans flying thr coop anyway? Harvard is good entertainment value, but I suppose there will always be a few malcontents, like yourself, who will whine about not winning enough. C'mon get real. This a tough league and it's not like it was back in the 80's when there were weak sisters everywhere in the league.

Are you serious?? Does the RPI national championship in '85 ring a bell?? How about 11 NHL draft picks on that roster including Adam Oates and Darren Puppa. Cornell, SLU, Clarkson, and UVM were hardly weak sisters. You need to get real.

But calling for a class act like Ted's head is just classless and ignorant, particularly when it comes from a someone on your own side of the fence. This really sickens me. I wouldn't want you in my foxhole, buddy. Were you calling for Bill Cleary's head when he had a bad stretch of seasons back in the the late 70's, you know before he won the national title? Stop embarrassing yourself with your inane whining.

And I wouldn't want you in mine that's for sure. And no I never called for Billy's head because I was an undergrad during the last years of that bad run. Billy simply didn't have the financial or other support he needed during that period of time. Starting with the class of '83, you could see that we were headed for better times. There are no Mark Fuscos, Neil Sheehys or Greg Olsens on this roster. And Billy's system wasn't the problem. Getting kids who could play it was most certainly an issue. That and a glaring lack of leadership which resolved itself when Fusco, Sheehy and Olsen arrived.

 

[ghostofwatson]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Ted Donato is a joke. Maybe he's a nice guy, but he's a horrible hockey coach.

I've watched (from afar) the once-proud Harvard program descend into mediocrity. Donato gets great recruits each year (don't you have 8 draft picks or something?) but he doesn't do anything with them.

To suggest that somebody deserves to maintain their job simply because they are nice is silly. If that person is proficient as his or her job, then they should (obviously) stay. But if someone's job performance slips over the years, and there's no denying that Teddy's has, they should be replaced with a more suitable candidate.

Just my two cents. And, as ghostofwatson put it, my opinion is irrelevant because I'm not a Harvard fan. But if I were the Harvard AD, Donato would be cleaning out his office tomorrow in an attempt to salvage this season under new leadership.

C'mon kdiff, Whittet has had losing seasons in 4 out of his 5 seasons so far. That's a joke, as well. Why aren't you more concerned about him? And unlike Ted, Whittet had coaching experience before he took the Brown job. I'm not even sure if he's a good guy, is he? He seems to scowl a lot. There are only 2 Ivy coaches w/ current team winning %, so Ted's not alone. And for years Schafer was the only Ivy coach with a winning record. Schafer is an outstanding coach, and he has the added benefit of the Hospitality/Dog Grooming Program at Cornell. We don't have that. No matter, Schafer is an outstanding coach who would succeed anywhere. Allain is an exceptional coach as well, and he had good experience in USA hockey before he started at Yale. He hit the ground running, had lots of support, and has done a great job. Schafer and Allain are exceptional coaches. But Ted is on the way up as a coach, it's just that right now the league is exceptionally strong. He's the ECAC's best recruiter. Ted has had good seasons and he's gotten us to the NCAA's before-- Whittet hasn't done that. Ted's a good guy who represents the school well. He's pleasant and well-mannered. He beats Mark Mazz in that regard. It counts for something. Ted's still working on getting better as a coach and his best days are ahead. If Mark Mazz were still coaching you'd see him making in-game adjustments, tinkering trying to find something that works in mid-stream, upsetting the kids....and parents. That used to drive me insane about him! Against Brown on Sat did you see Ted deviate from his game plan one iota? No way! Sure we had some problems in the neuteral zone but you didn't see us resort to blue-collar dump and chase. Ted's not going to ask a 2-3rd round draft pick to play that nonsense. He's not at Harvard to play that nonsense. No, on Sat we persisted with our game plan of trying to move the puck with medium/long passes. I was entertained. My friend complained that it wasn't working, it would cost us, that we had gaps, that nobody was supporting the defense, the forwards were too high on the breakout, our kids aren't strong on the puck, that Brown kids were willing to pay the price along the wall and our kids weren't.... yada, yada, yada. Heard it all before and it's tripe. We play our brand of hockey and we stick to it. Usually it serves us fine and it's exciting to watch. I don't want us to play Brown's style; our fans don't want to see it. Who doesn't believe that Harvard will be better in 1-2 yrs? Ted's kid, Ryan, is coming soon and so is a bunch of other talent. Where would all those kids go if you threw Ted under the bus? Yes, the last few years have been rough and frustrating but things will get better. Why would we want to sabotage our future now?

 

[northeastern]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

and it's exciting to watch..

ha, ha
Now you're certified.

 

[ghostofwatson]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Oh right I forgot. I guess that must mean that BC, BU, Cornell, UNH, UMass Lowell and Providence continue to sell out their games because, let's see, their teams win more than once in a while and are actually competitive in their conferences??? But because of the economy, yup, they are due for a real downshift in ticket sales. Yup, that must be it.



Are you serious?? Does the RPI national championship in '85 ring a bell?? How about 11 NHL draft picks on that roster including Adam Oates and Darren Puppa. Cornell, SLU, Clarkson, and UVM were hardly weak sisters. You need to get real.



And I wouldn't want you in mine that's for sure. And no I never called for Billy's head because I was an undergrad during the last years of that bad run. Billy simply didn't have the financial or other support he needed during that period of time. Starting with the class of '83, you could see that we were headed for better times. There are no Mark Fuscos, Neil Sheehys or Greg Olsens on this roster. And Billy's system wasn't the problem. Getting kids who could play it was most certainly an issue. That and a glaring lack of leadership which resolved itself when Fusco, Sheehy and Olsen arrived.

Good God, it's hard to deal with this much stupidity. Yes, the economy does have an effect on season tix sales. No, we are not playing in the 80's any more. Things have changed, grandpa. Stop this clueless, fact-free whining and try to support your team.

 

[ghostofwatson]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Not looking to pile on , but you might be the most complacent fan ever. Trying to find some tongue in cheek stuff here, but you are actually serious. Watch out what you wish for, by keeping a nice guy around for too long, you can end up with a program in shambles, it happened at Yale, and it took a MAJOR reconstruction of the program, training facilities, arena and staff to begin the upward climb again. There is already too much competition in the northeast for fans and support, to let a storied program like Harvard circle the drain is an insult to the fans and the Administration should be ashamed.

Complacent would be putting up for 30 yrs of Timmy T with one NCCA appearance to show for it. Tim was a nice guy and very classy, but Ted's done a better job for us already than Tim did for you over his tenure. For sure, Ted's also a great guy and our future looks promising.

 

[ghostofwatson]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2013-2014

Saw this weekend's games, thought they came out flying against Yale, but Yale is a better team at this point. They should be able to beat Brown at home, though. Besides the poor play of the team, the atmosphere at Bright is dismal. I try to be careful criticizing the team because often we have family of the players sitting among us. I was irritated Saturday by Brown's secong goal in which a defenseman was trying to get the puck out of the Harvard zone and lost it, as no one came to help him, and the defenseman stood there, not moving the puck. Brown kept the puck in the zone and scored. I complained to my wife about the play, not using profanity, which I never use there, and not naming names, and the entire family in front of me turned around. I've been a season ticket holder for over 20 years and the poor play and lack of improvement get to you sometimes. There are players who show flashes during their freshman year who never get better. There are a few players there who I don't care if I see them again. Some of the turnovers and lack of execution on the power play are the type of stuff you see early in the season, not this late into the season. But the fact that you are supposed to sit there game after game watching this and not be able to express your opinion, to my wife, for Pete's sake, signifies the atmosphere there. Sit down, shut up, and be bombarded by loud music.

I agree about the Brown game not being the team's best, but I like music.