Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

[LynahFan]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

I think you're correct but I guess fans or followers of Harvard like Bothman think otherwise. I understand recruiting is different when financial aid and academic standards are different from other conferences but how did Bill Cleary do it then?

Clearly, he cheated.

 

[sterlippo1]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Former Harvard great CJ Young , he of the 3 shorthanded goals in 49 seconds in our company today.............can you really score three shorthanded goals in 49 seconds?

 

[KHousesniper]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Sent this note this morning:

Dear Mr. Scalise:

Tim Murphy. Katey Stone. Tommy Amaker. Mike Shafer. Keith Allain. Jerry York. Jack Parker.

Ted Donato?

Credit where credit is due. Ted Donato is a Harvard hockey hero. I watched him during and just after I attended Harvard. By all accounts he’s a great guy.

But compared to his colleagues and his peers at rival schools, Ted Donato is in a class by himself. With rare exceptions, year in and year out, these other coaches field highly competitive teams that give their fans something to get excited about. Not infrequently, they win championships. For the Harvard men’s hockey program, mediocrity is a good year. It’s getting embarrassing. In the Beanpot semi-finals, Harvard has been outscored nearly 20-1 over the past four years.

They had a nice run last year – I loved going to Atlantic City – but they were dominated by Union, outshot by 2-1. Last year was an anomaly. Even then, Harvard was one overtime goal away of not getting out of the ECAC quarter finals. They had a once-in-a-decade forward in Alex Killorn, who carried the team on his shoulders. Without him, they never would have finished in the top four.

If wins and losses over several years mean anything, and they do to fans, parents and players as they do in life, there is no argument left to keep this coach, unless you believe that it’s uncouth to fire an Ivy League coach despite dismal performance, an argument that I believe most people in the Harvard hockey community reject. That argument is above all unfair to the players, many of whom come in as NHL draft choices but leave without realizing their potential. They deserve better.

Tommy Ammaker proved this year that off-the-ice problems should have been no excuse for failure. Harvard Men’s Hockey didn’t have an abysmal season this year because they were three players away from being a highly competitive team. They were well-developed 8-10 players short of that.

Harvard hockey has been dysfunctional since the 1990s. Mazzoleni delivered two championship teams and handed over a team to Donato that won a championship the next year. He got ran off the reservation for his troubles. But even some of his teams had miserable regular seasons before kicking into high gear around playoff time.

Harvard has a great hockey platform. Ted Donato can’t get his teams on the ground. Finishing dead last in the ECAC has to be the last straw. There’s no reason why Harvard can’t use that platform to attract a first-rate coach who delivers a team that is at least competitive and fun to watch year in and year out. That coach is not Ted Donato. An amicable parting of ways with a Harvard hockey hero is in order. Anything less would be a disservice to us long-suffering fans and anyone who truly cares about Harvard hockey.

Sincerely,

Bruce Corwin

Not everyone is for dumping Teddy but he hasn't done a great job, for sure. You have to go all the way back to Clark Hodder to find an H coach on par with Teddy's H career coaching record. There aren't many better recruiters than Teddy but he has really struggled with the details and structure of being a head coach. I would love to see Don Sweeney given a chance to pick up the pieces. No head coaching experience-- or even assistant coaching experience-- but that doesn't seem to be a prerequisite at Harvard. He knows the game inside and out. I feel he would be an excellent head coach. Not sure he would give up B's Asst Gen Manager position, but if I were Scalise I'd ask him anyway. What do folks think about this?

 

[H60Hockey]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Hate to pile on Ted, but numbers tell a pretty grim story. The record is 126-139-39 during his tenure. Of those wins 60 were products of Mazzoleni's recruiting; almost half of Ted's wins came in the first three years he was behind the bench. Every year we read how gifted the talent coming in is but we still can't get to 50%. When Tony Reno left to take the head coaching job at Yale Tim Murphy had 600 candidates contact him. Coaching positions are hugely attractive. Surely if we posted the opening for hockey tomorrow we would have a large field of qualified, experienced men to pick from. Think it is time.

 

[alslammerz]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

You are still offering no solutions (maybe a specific name of a coach or two who would be interested in Harvard??), but are very well-versed in throwing tomatoes from the cheap seats.

Adam Sinclair commited to Harvard. He's a very heralded '97 and compared to Johnny Gaudreau.

I get the feeling that they'd only be happy if Jack Parker's retirement was actually a ploy for him to move to Cambridge. He's a proven winner!

 

[vicb]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Only one day left to get your picks in: http://board.uscho.com/showthread.php?103798-ECAC-Pick-the-Playoffs-2013&p=5681231#post5681231

The following contestants have yet to enter their picks:

bothman
Brian Sullivan
cnor79
engineerhockeyfan
fr joe
gocu11
H60Hockey
hockeyplayer1015
johnk
jstadts
justlookin'
KnucklePuckCU
Maine-iac
Nate Owen
NYhockeyguy
Old Time Hockey
redrocker
Rjm7272
RPIHFH
sshablak
TheValleyRaider
TimU
TuteScrooge
Union93
QUAlum2004
TchrBill
RPIcrank
Ivan Lennon

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Not everyone is for dumping Teddy but he hasn't done a great job, for sure. You have to go all the way back to Clark Hodder to find an H coach on par with Teddy's H career coaching record. There aren't many better recruiters than Teddy but he has really struggled with the details and structure of being a head coach. I would love to see Don Sweeney given a chance to pick up the pieces. No head coaching experience-- or even assistant coaching experience-- but that doesn't seem to be a prerequisite at Harvard. He knows the game inside and out. I feel he would be an excellent head coach. Not sure he would give up B's Asst Gen Manager position, but if I were Scalise I'd ask him anyway. What do folks think about this?

I doubt that Don would take the job. He is ensconced as Chiarelli's right hand man. Why would you leave a management position in the NHL to take a college job, albeit at your alma mater? I'm sure it would also be a step down in salary although Harvard's benefits package is great especially if you have a family. Too many reasons to say "no".

I don't know the coaching landscape but Mark Dennehy has done a good job at Merrimack. They have an average rink, small student body yet he has been able to keep them competitive and nationally ranked. Someone like Dennehy might be a good choice. He would probably turn down the chance but then again, asking couldn't hurt right?

My guess is that if Donato were asked to leave, the administration would pursue someone like Kevin Sneddon. In an ideal world, I'd like to see someone like Nate Leaman. He is doing a terrific job at Providence. With the incoming talent and what we have on the roster right now, a coach like Leaman might make an instant difference in the program. I know, I know, a pipedream. But there have to be other coaches like him waiting for a chance to run their own program.

 

[northeastern]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

..My guess is that if Donato were asked to leave, the administration would pursue someone like Kevin Sneddon. In an ideal world, I'd like to see someone like Nate Leaman. He is doing a terrific job at Providence. With the incoming talent and what we have on the roster right now, a coach like Leaman might make an instant difference in the program. I know, I know, a pipedream. But there have to be other coaches like him waiting for a chance to run their own program.

..take Jim Madigan for hockey.. just 'lure' him away, like you did.. Albie.. & we'll throw in Peter Roby to ruin (I meant, run) your basketball once again.

 

[jollet]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Not everyone is for dumping Teddy but he hasn't done a great job, for sure. You have to go all the way back to Clark Hodder to find an H coach on par with Teddy's H career coaching record. There aren't many better recruiters than Teddy but he has really struggled with the details and structure of being a head coach. I would love to see Don Sweeney given a chance to pick up the pieces. No head coaching experience-- or even assistant coaching experience-- but that doesn't seem to be a prerequisite at Harvard. He knows the game inside and out. I feel he would be an excellent head coach. Not sure he would give up B's Asst Gen Manager position, but if I were Scalise I'd ask him anyway. What do folks think about this?

Sweeney would be an inspired choice, great guy, an alum -- Harvard's choice would ideally be an alum-- and plenty of player development background. The job security would be better at Harvard than it would in pro sports, and Sweeney is already financially secure. I don't see Dennehy or Leaman as top choices because neither is an alum. Sneddon is struggling at Vermont coming off his 3rd straight losing season there, and he's well below a career .500 wining % as coach. No thanks. Harvard should look into Sweeney's availability. I have little doubt that Donato would land on his feet at Causeway St. with the Harvard connection there.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Sweeney would be an inspired choice, great guy, an alum -- Harvard's choice would ideally be an alum-- and plenty of player development background. The job security would be better at Harvard than it would in pro sports, and Sweeney is already financially secure. I don't see Dennehy or Leaman as top choices because neither is an alum. Sneddon is struggling at Vermont coming off his 3rd straight losing season there, and he's well below a career .500 wining % as coach. No thanks. Harvard should look into Sweeney's availability. I have little doubt that Donato would land on his feet at Causeway St. with the Harvard connection there.

I didn't say that Leaman would be a choice as he is set at Providence and would not leave to go back to the ECAC. I said that someone like him would be ideal. I don't think that being an alum should be the deciding factor for bringing in a new coach. Katey Stone is a UNH grad. How is she doing with the women's program? Not too shabby right? How about Tim Murphy? Not an alum but would you trade him for another coach who attended Harvard at this point? No chance.

Don is a great guy - I've had the chance to meet him and his family and he is top shelf, no doubt. But I just can't see him stepping down to take the reins in Cambridge. There is actually more security in player development in the NHL than as a college head coach. Pressure to win now at D-1 is enormous. The academic restrictions which Don knows only too well is another stumbling block. Yes, he would be welcomed with open arms. But I'm not sure he would see it as a step up in his career. Mike Milbury tried it when BC hired him. That lasted all of three days.

 

[H60Hockey]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Our basketball and football coaches are not alums nor was Cooney Weiland; our hockey and lacrosse coaches are.

 

[ROMD]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Give Ted a graceful and dignified exit sooner rather than later. You don't need someone from Harvard or the NHL but you do need someone who can recruit, coach, and manage the assistants. Being a nice guy with a super playing history who plays by the rules only gets you so far . . . you eventually have to put an exciting competitive team back in Bright.

As to specifics: I can't comment on player development because I haven't seen more than a handful of Harvard games for years. In the ones I have seen in person or on TV, they were so outplayed it seemed like lack of talent but that could be a mirage. One question: shouldn't Harvard have even more Europeans on the roster (and players from Western Canada)?

 

[ROMD]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Let's hope Vesey looks at the track records of guys who stayed all four years vs. guys who left one. If he needs help, I can send him tape of all of Leblanc's NHL games this year. Somebody with league pass and an actual recording machine will have to take care of Killorn.

Since we're discussing coaching departures...Jack Parker, eh? Supposedly announcing his retirement tomorrow.

Also more connected alums than I...the scheduling thread said we might be playing the Elis at Madison Sq. Garden next year? Anyone heard that rumor from any other sources yet? Always happy to cheer against a team in blue at MSG...can wear my Devils hat w/ my Harvard gear and support Kerfoot. I'd buy tickets the day that were announced if it were true.

Have Vesey talk to Chris Biotti too.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

Give Ted a graceful and dignified exit sooner rather than later. You don't need someone from Harvard or the NHL but you do need someone who can recruit, coach, and manage the assistants. Being a nice guy with a super playing history who plays by the rules only gets you so far . . . you eventually have to put an exciting competitive team back in Bright.

As to specifics: I can't comment on player development because I haven't seen more than a handful of Harvard games for years. In the ones I have seen in person or on TV, they were so outplayed it seemed like lack of talent but that could be a mirage. One question: shouldn't Harvard have even more Europeans on the roster (and players from Western Canada)?

I think you can field an exciting, competitive team without breaking the rules. Harvard would never hire a coach who deliberately or otherwise ignored rules for the sake of winning. Not going to happen.

Talent shouldn't be a problem but it has been for several years. We've had players like Andrew Miller and Andrew Calof visit Cambridge only to choose to go elsewhere (and hurt us in the process). As far as Europeans, I don't know why we should have any more than Yale or Princeton or any other school. And we've never had a pipeline to Western Canada. Most of our Canadian kids have come from Ontario or Ottawa.

 

[Skate79]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

This is just a guess but if Yale were to win the NC, that rumor floating around about a game at MSG next season could become a reality pretty quick. I'd definitely go.

We used to play in a Holiday Invitational tournament at MSG back in the late sixties and early seventies. I think Brown, BU and possibly Yale were part of the tournament although I'm not sure.

 

[ROMD]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

I think you can field an exciting, competitive team without breaking the rules. Harvard would never hire a coach who deliberately or otherwise ignored rules for the sake of winning. Not going to happen.

Talent shouldn't be a problem but it has been for several years. We've had players like Andrew Miller and Andrew Calof visit Cambridge only to choose to go elsewhere (and hurt us in the process). As far as Europeans, I don't know why we should have any more than Yale or Princeton or any other school. And we've never had a pipeline to Western Canada. Most of our Canadian kids have come from Ontario or Ottawa.

I didn't mean to suggesting breaking rules or that the only way to win is to break the rules only that compliance on its own isn't enough.

It would be great to see some games in the New York area next year or the year after at a neutral site. I remember seeing Harvard play at a tournament at Nassau County Coliseum in the late 80s. If the Winter Classic comes to New York in 2015, you could add a couple college games too.

 

[alslammerz]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

I'm sure there are some people on here happy for our conference. I am not one of those people. For me, this is not the worst possible Frozen Four title game (assuming Quinnipiac doesn't blow it here) but it's pretty darn close.

So much for being the reigning national champions in the league.

 

[Yale86]

I'm sure there are some people on here happy for our conference. I am not one of those people. For me, this is not the worst possible Frozen Four title game (assuming Quinnipiac doesn't blow it here) but it's pretty darn close.

So much for being the reigning national champions in the league.

You went to Harvard - face it - you life (like your team) sucks!

 

[Yale86]

I think you can field an exciting, competitive team without breaking the rules. Harvard would never hire a coach who deliberately or otherwise ignored rules for the sake of winning. Not going to happen.

Talent shouldn't be a problem but it has been for several years. We've had players like Andrew Miller and Andrew Calof visit Cambridge only to choose to go elsewhere (and hurt us in the process). As far as Europeans, I don't know why we should have any more than Yale or Princeton or any other school. And we've never had a pipeline to Western
Canada. Most of our Canadian kids have come from Ontario or Ottawa.

Well - except for basketball - didn't half the team get kicked out for cheating in that hooked on phonics correspondence course?

 

[alslammerz]

Re: Harvard Crimson 2012-2013

You went to Harvard - face it - you life (like your team) sucks!

Yeah, it's a really terrible life because we have a bad hockey team. In fact, all of our sports are really bad, like football...(checks football results for past 6 years) oops, my bad.

Hey though, really, congrats on making your second Frozen Four, even if the first one only had four teams in it.

Shame, guys like LT and YaleDoc are some of the best posters on this board.