Harvard 2022-23: What's Up?

[FiveHoleFrenzy]

Crowell pulled Soderberg at 19:58 of the first period for a face-off in the Harvard end. Repeat: Crowell pulled Soderberg at 19:58 of the first period for a face-off in the Harvard end. I understand . . . after all, it had been a whole 17 minutes since the early Bulldogs score that failed to open the door to a blowout. So, was this a tribute to Stone’s team for skating backward wind sprints to keep the score 1-0? Or was it a huge diss, student to mentor? Weird. Unprecedented? I don’t know. We don’t see this kind of blood lust much in the ECAC. Tell me I’m wrong.

And why no replays of penalties, major or minor? Is this a conference thing? A BIG+ thing? A UMD thing?

Btw, even Harvard can’t be expected to score on a 5 minute PP when its ace scorer has been boarded out of the game.

I liked the “holy cow” guy because at the end of the game he seemed to be rooting for the Bulldogs to get six more shots on goal so Pellicci could top her season high of 54 saves. It was his way of paying tribute to a remarkable performance.

I think that is just something that UMD's broadcast does although they did show a replay of a penalty on Harvard. Harvard goalie played well but the last two UMD goals in the third period were soft.

 

[thirdtime's . . .]

Harvard goalie played well but the last two UMD goals in the third period were soft.

I’ll give Pellicci a soft goal or two after staring down a pack of Bulldogs for almost 50 minutes. Exhaustion has got to kick in at some point.
(It’s funny how we never talk about a goalie being gassed.)

No thoughts on the Soderberg pull?

Btw, I thought all of Minnesota had a fan base. Amsoil last night was as empty as Bright, where the lights were out.

 

[FiveHoleFrenzy]

No thoughts on the Soderberg pull?

Btw, I thought all of Minnesota had a fan base. Amsoil last night was as empty as Bright, where the lights were out.

Bold move...Probably not intended as disrespect but maybe more of the influence of the muzzinator coaching at OSU.

If you have a top of the WCHA matchup with the Sinners, or Tunnelers, or Yuckeyes then there would be more in the building.

Yikes, with the 9-0 drubbing today, Harvard was outscored 13-0 on the weekend and outshot 106-29...

 

[ARM]

No thoughts on the Soderberg pull?

I've seen it before, and not just in women's NCAA. The theory is that there isn't time to pull the puck back to a teammate for an almost 200-foot shot. As long as the offensive center doesn't allow the opposing center to shoot straight off the drop of the puck, two seconds shouldn't be long enough for the defending team to score into the empty net. They likely have used a stop watch in practice to see how long it takes for the puck to travel that far and understand the level of risk they are taking. A 60 MPH shot travels 88 feet per second, so about all the time available would be needed for the puck's travel, leaving nothing for winning the faceoff and getting a shot off.

 

[thirdtime's . . .]

The theory is . . .

I understand that there was zero risk for UMD. That’s exactly what made the move seem gratuitously aggressive. “OK Harvard. You think you can stymie this team for two more periods? I’m going 6-on-5 for two seconds!" Consider the situation at the end of the first period. Was Crowell surprised? Doubtless. Was she shaking in her boots? Doubtful. She had every reason to believe her team would overwhelm Harvard after 40 more minutes of that kind of play, but she also had every reason to acknowledge the determined play of her outgunned opponent. I’m not sure how a coach actually does that on the ice, but taking a knee with 2 seconds left would be a start. Save the analytics for a one goal game at the end of the third. Given the overall context, this came down to an old-fashioned sportsmanship issue for me.

 

[ARM]

Given the overall context, this came down to an old-fashioned sportsmanship issue for me.

After 20 minutes in a game where the outcome is still in doubt? I'd be surprised if Stone thought that was lacking sportsmanship any more than she would have been offended by Crowell sending out her top line for that faceoff. I would be more likely to question the sportsmanship in the situation that you suggest, if UMD pulled its goalie while up a goal with two seconds left in the game, a situation where it clearly doesn't need an additional goal.

 

[Lindsay]

I don’t think it was unsportsmanlike. Practice at an offensive zone 6 on 5 faceoff maybe? Particularly as Harvard was coming off a win against Cornell right? And I’m not kidding, from my perspective there is a LOT of talk about how great the ECAC is this year. If that talk is real coaches are going to treat their opponent as such.

I once played a game against Brown where they started a forward in net despite having a healthy goalie on the bench. Was it unsportsmanlike or did the real goalie need to be disciplined? Don’t care, we won!

 

[vicb]

How about this one in the Clarkson - Quinny game on Friday.

Knights were down 3-0 and took IMHO some frustration cross checking and body checking penalties in the last half of the third. None were that egregious but they were called. When the 4th penalty was called with 12 sec remaining I guess the Quinny coaching staff had seen enough. They called timeout and then sent their top line out. Won the faceoff and eventually tick tack toed the puck around down low and scored with 2 sec left. Anyone want to comment on that one.

 

[Lindsay]

How about this one in the Clarkson - Quinny game on Friday.

Knights were down 3-0 and took IMHO some frustration cross checking and body checking penalties in the last half of the third. None were that egregious but they were called. When the 4th penalty was called with 12 sec remaining I guess the Quinny coaching staff had seen enough. They called timeout and then sent their top line out. Won the faceoff and eventually tick tack toed the puck around down low and scored with 2 sec left. Anyone want to comment on that one.

What a flex imo. Not to be messed with, those bobcats.

 

[pgb-ohio]

After 20 minutes in a game where the outcome is still in doubt? I'd be surprised if Stone thought that was lacking sportsmanship any more than she would have been offended by Crowell sending out her top line for that faceoff. I would be more likely to question the sportsmanship in the situation that you suggest, if UMD pulled its goalie while up a goal with two seconds left in the game, a situation where it clearly doesn't need an additional goal.

I certainly don't mind that thirdtime's... raised the question. Perfectly appropriate topic for this forum.

That said, I agree with ARM 100%. To be honest, I'm actually a little shocked by the allegation of poor sportsmanship.

Looking at the sport of hockey as a whole -- not limiting the conversation to Women's D-1 -- I've seen this move many times over the years. It just strikes me as a completely normal thing to do. As long as the outcome of the game is still in doubt, as ARM says.

In recent years, my observation is that we have seen less of this ploy. But not because it's poor sportsmanship; because it's so unlikely to be a net gain. If you're going to shoot right off the face-off, you don't need the 6th attacker anyhow. If you need two or more touches of the puck to score, two seconds is likely insufficient. Make it 5 seconds, and you've got some possibilities. But then the slight risk of a goal against kicks in.

 

[ARM]

Knights were down 3-0 and took IMHO some frustration cross checking and body checking penalties in the last half of the third. None were that egregious but they were called. When the 4th penalty was called with 12 sec remaining I guess the Quinny coaching staff had seen enough. They called timeout and then sent their top line out. Won the faceoff and eventually tick tack toed the puck around down low and scored with 2 sec left. Anyone want to comment on that one.

What we don't know is what Q discussed during that timeout. It could have been setting up a play or it could have been along the lines of the need to keep your composure and not get involved in anything outside the rulebook. I probably wouldn't send my top kids out at that point because why risk an injury if you think your opponent is taking runs at people, but I understand wanting to send a message within the rules.

The question of a team scoring late in a game that's all but over comes up in many sports, and the best advice that I've seen goes along the lines of this. If you don't like that your opponent is scoring in those late situations, then stop them. Beyond that, reflect your indignation on the scoreboard the next time that you play them. Winning is the ultimate way to stick up for yourself and your teammates.

 

[thirdtime's . . .]

I would be more likely to question the sportsmanship in the situation that you suggest, if UMD pulled its goalie while up a goal with two seconds left in the game, a situation where it clearly doesn't need an additional goal.

The situation I meant to suggest was certainly not this, but rather one where a team was either down one goal or tied, not up one, as with UMD. So no, I’m not in favor of piling on! Enough from me. Glad to have the various input. I’m a stranger in a strange land here who can only hope to live long enough to see the day when Harvard has the WCHA figured out.

Now that that’s settled (!) I’d like to move on to what was the most significant aspect of the UMD series for Harvard:


Saturday’s game marked the end of an amazing streak for Crimson hockey, and it was an end that was only tangentially related to the scoreboard. It was the first time ever that senior captain Anne Bloomer had not laced em up since joining the team as a freshman. Never missed a game her entire career until after being taken into the boards at UMD Friday afternoon. That’s 107 games in a row. And we’re not just talking about someone who gets an A for attendance, or basic things like stamina, endurance and dedication. Her skills made her the second highest goal scorer her sophomore year and gave Harvard its team leader in scoring last year. A lynchpin. So I think of this team having to start Saturday's game without #3 on the ice, and presumably not knowing when she’d return, as being equivalent to already feeling down 9-0 before the opening face-off. Or maybe down 107-0, which is what it felt like to me. I certainly hope we’ll see her well and back on the ice some time soon.

 

[pgb-ohio]

The situation I meant to suggest was certainly not this, but rather one where a team was either down one goal or tied, not up one, as with UMD. So no, I’m not in favor of piling on! Enough from me. Glad to have the various input. I’m a stranger in a strange land here who can only hope to live long enough to see the day when Harvard has the WCHA figured out.

Appreciate the civility of the conversation & can certainly respect a competing point of view. But you've identified the central issue, and we simply disagree. IMHO, if the outcome is in doubt, it's not piling on.

 

[Skate79]

How about this one in the Clarkson - Quinny game on Friday.

Knights were down 3-0 and took IMHO some frustration cross checking and body checking penalties in the last half of the third. None were that egregious but they were called. When the 4th penalty was called with 12 sec remaining I guess the Quinny coaching staff had seen enough. They called timeout and then sent their top line out. Won the faceoff and eventually tick tack toed the puck around down low and scored with 2 sec left. Anyone want to comment on that one.

I've been on both sides of that situation. Frustration sometimes gets the better of you especially when you are playing a top team in the conference. Not saying I resorted to that type of physical nonsense but one of my teammates had enough and decided he was going to punish the opposing team's top two players. All it bought us was more misery and a lopsided score and yeah, the opposing coach decided to run his best out there to keep scoring. No love loss.

Being on the winning side and having the other team take runs or inflict unnecessary hits, one of my teammates right before the draw near the end of the game when we were on like our 10th PP stood up at the faceoff dot and pointed to the scoreboard with his stick. He then got ready to draw and at the last minute drew back his stick and let the other guy win the draw. He then smirked and said something to the effect "That's about all you're going to win tonight". Again, typical chirping in the heat of the moment. It happens.

 

[thirdtime's . . .]

Harvard is not quite toast, but what can you say about a team that had to wait for the last game before the break to score its second PPG in some 50 attempts? Not the note I was hoping for the three seniors to be going out on. But necessity has meant a lot of ice time for all, and Pellicci is being forged into a top goalie.

What’s to look forward to in the second half? These lines and pairings have to jell a bit at some point (not so sure about the PP), so we can’t rule out January surprises, but they will be surprises. So this season seems to turn more than ever on the Beanpot, and all one can say is that the team BC sees in February will not be the one they saw last month, licking its wounds after Duluth.

 

[thirdtime's . . .]

Snow at Fenway and a very non-blowout by QU.

https://gocrimson.com/news/2023/1/6/...en-fenway.aspx

This is what they must mean when they say, “Just go out there and have fun!”

 

[Skate79]

Harvard is not quite toast, but what can you say about a team that had to wait for the last game before the break to score its second PPG in some 50 attempts? Not the note I was hoping for the three seniors to be going out on. But necessity has meant a lot of ice time for all, and Pellicci is being forged into a top goalie.

What’s to look forward to in the second half? These lines and pairings have to jell a bit at some point (not so sure about the PP), so we can’t rule out January surprises, but they will be surprises. So this season seems to turn more than ever on the Beanpot, and all one can say is that the team BC sees in February will not be the one they saw last month, licking its wounds after Duluth.

Pretty simple, really. Short on talent. They don't have what they need to compete against teams in the ECAC and are totally overmatched when it comes to playing outside the conference. They rely too much on a handful of players leaving the younger members of the team to fight for a few minutes each game. You can't develop depth/bench that way and it shows up when they have to compete against better teams.

 

[Steamboat]

Pretty simple, really. Short on talent. They don't have what they need to compete against teams in the ECAC and are totally overmatched when it comes to playing outside the conference. They rely too much on a handful of players leaving the younger members of the team to fight for a few minutes each game. You can't develop depth/bench that way and it shows up when they have to compete against better teams.

That sounds like a coaching issue to me. Anyone else think so?

 

[ARM]

That sounds like a coaching issue to me. Anyone else think so?

Coach Stone has always been an enigma to me. They were a dominant program when they had some of the top players in the game, but usually didn't have enough of them to get over the top. Now there are seasons where they seem to go completely off the rails, and just when I'm ready to write them off, they respond with a championship season. It seems like she is great at coaching/developing stars, but not so much when it comes to role players.

Fans of the team are in a far better position, and likely far more qualified, than I am to judge.

 

[thirdtime's . . .]

Pretty simple, really. Short on talent. They don't have what they need to compete against teams in the ECAC and are totally overmatched when it comes to playing outside the conference. They rely too much on a handful of players leaving the younger members of the team to fight for a few minutes each game. You can't develop depth/bench that way and it shows up when they have to compete against better teams.

Short on talent? Yes, but they don’t rely on a handful of players because no one, other than the goalie, is very reliable this year. If you mean inordinate ice time for the first and second lines, that’s just not the case; almost everyone is skating a lot. Coaching issue? More likely a recruiting issue, which all the Ivies share. Strong rosters will pop up periodically —- Cornell, Harvard, now Yale — but there’s a structural ‘weakness’ at play.


You will grant them one day of fun, no?