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Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
- Thread starter joecct
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If the Arabs think that Israel does not have its backup guy, they're going to go for it.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
Israel has cap'n happy. Aint happening.
Israel has cap'n happy. Aint happening.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
Fox can dream, anyway. They've been running that crawl all day.
It sounds like open war has started in the Middle East, Sunni Arab states led by Saudi Arabia vs Iran.
For now, Yemen is the battleground.
For now....
Fox can dream, anyway. They've been running that crawl all day.
CNN is running "One of our Aircraft is Missing".
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
Well, don't look at me.
Well, don't look at me.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
Obama surrenders... again. http://freebeacon.com/national-secu...-iranian-demands-as-nuke-deal-comes-together/
Obama surrenders... again. http://freebeacon.com/national-secu...-iranian-demands-as-nuke-deal-comes-together/
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
So, you boil down this Middle East stuff and it's basically two rival Islam factions going at it. Sunni and Shia. Iran vs. Saudi Arabia.
It's the Catholics and Protestants all over again. We never learn anything from History. Humanity is doomed.
So, you boil down this Middle East stuff and it's basically two rival Islam factions going at it. Sunni and Shia. Iran vs. Saudi Arabia.
It's the Catholics and Protestants all over again. We never learn anything from History. Humanity is doomed.
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
Grab some popcorn and lets stay the F out of it!
Grab some popcorn and lets stay the F out of it!
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
Except it's not. It's way, way more complicated than that. For example, the guys who are coming down from the hills in Yemen right now are Zaidi. Zaidi are Shia but they are historically a bridge between Shia and Sunni. The north of Yemen has always been basically a whole other country than the rest of Yemen. At times it's been the intellectual center of the Shia world; at other times it's been an Appalachian backwater. But it's a classic "interior vs coast" struggle like you see everywhere else in the world.
You can always boil history down to a simple narrative, but the narrative doesn't have to make sense. In the late colonial American period, the river valleys in the northeast were Dutch and the interior farmland was German. At exactly the same time the German states and the Dutch were fighting religious wars. So clearly the colonial rivalries between agricultural and commercial centers were just European religious wars "boiled down," right? No -- not unless you want to see world history like that.
A Lebanese woman who went to classes at NDIU with my wife had some great advice about the idea of a global Sunni / Shia conflict, which she saw as a ludicrously western, colonialist concept. She said the Shia are so divided that they spend all their time slicing their pie smaller and smaller, while the Sunni are so diffuse they don't have any allegiance to one another because that would make about as much sense as the majority of brown eyed people seeing each other as a common cause.
Except it's not. It's way, way more complicated than that. For example, the guys who are coming down from the hills in Yemen right now are Zaidi. Zaidi are Shia but they are historically a bridge between Shia and Sunni. The north of Yemen has always been basically a whole other country than the rest of Yemen. At times it's been the intellectual center of the Shia world; at other times it's been an Appalachian backwater. But it's a classic "interior vs coast" struggle like you see everywhere else in the world.
You can always boil history down to a simple narrative, but the narrative doesn't have to make sense. In the late colonial American period, the river valleys in the northeast were Dutch and the interior farmland was German. At exactly the same time the German states and the Dutch were fighting religious wars. So clearly the colonial rivalries between agricultural and commercial centers were just European religious wars "boiled down," right? No -- not unless you want to see world history like that.
A Lebanese woman who went to classes at NDIU with my wife had some great advice about the idea of a global Sunni / Shia conflict, which she saw as a ludicrously western, colonialist concept. She said the Shia are so divided that they spend all their time slicing their pie smaller and smaller, while the Sunni are so diffuse they don't have any allegiance to one another because that would make about as much sense as the majority of brown eyed people seeing each other as a common cause.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
Let the regional states handle it. If the regional states can't handle the humanitarian disaster, have them appeal to the United Nations.
Let the regional states handle it. If the regional states can't handle the humanitarian disaster, have them appeal to the United Nations.
ScoobyDoo
NPC
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
That would be wonderful but I doubt it happens that way. Although the less dependent on their oil we are the more we may be willing to stay away. And Kep, if they're all that factionalized and split up into mini-mini-versions-of-larger-groupings then why do they fight on Sunni/Shia lines all the time? Iraq, which we supposedly "saved" fractured in front of our very eyes because Sunni and Shia can't get along like Protestants and Catholics couldn't get along.
That would be wonderful but I doubt it happens that way. Although the less dependent on their oil we are the more we may be willing to stay away. And Kep, if they're all that factionalized and split up into mini-mini-versions-of-larger-groupings then why do they fight on Sunni/Shia lines all the time? Iraq, which we supposedly "saved" fractured in front of our very eyes because Sunni and Shia can't get along like Protestants and Catholics couldn't get along.
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
I'd make my deal with the Saudis and call it a day. Right now our oil needs are by and large filled by 1) Us, 2) Canada, 3) Mexico, and 4) Saudi Arabia. So who cares about everybody else? Let the Chinese get involved if they want to ensure that crude keeps flowing over there. I'd support Israel's right to defend itself but they can solve their own problems as well. If Iran wants to get involved in Yemen, who cares? If Syria wants to get involved in Lebanon, who cares? If Iraq becomes a cess pool, who cares? We need no presence in that region aside from a place to launch drones from.
I understand in the past getting involved with OPEC had the ability to ruin our economy. Those days are gone. Keep the one country you need by your side and to hell with the rest of it.
I'd make my deal with the Saudis and call it a day. Right now our oil needs are by and large filled by 1) Us, 2) Canada, 3) Mexico, and 4) Saudi Arabia. So who cares about everybody else? Let the Chinese get involved if they want to ensure that crude keeps flowing over there. I'd support Israel's right to defend itself but they can solve their own problems as well. If Iran wants to get involved in Yemen, who cares? If Syria wants to get involved in Lebanon, who cares? If Iraq becomes a cess pool, who cares? We need no presence in that region aside from a place to launch drones from.
I understand in the past getting involved with OPEC had the ability to ruin our economy. Those days are gone. Keep the one country you need by your side and to hell with the rest of it.
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
It's a lot more than just that, it's also Arabs vs Persians. I wonder if the Arabs could enlist Greece as a symbolic ally?
Where it gets gnarly is if/when Turkey gets drawn into the conflict. Then, does that involve NATO forces by treaty?
It's not clear that it's practical for us to sit on the sidelines, planning to eating popcorn. Our economic well-being is inextricably interdependent on the world economy, which in turn still depends upon oil from the Middle East.
To the extent that your popcorn is imported, you might not have it much longer if this conflagration gets too out of hand.
(I know popcorn itself is not imported, it was a metaphor not a literalism)
It's a lot more than just that, it's also Arabs vs Persians. I wonder if the Arabs could enlist Greece as a symbolic ally?
Where it gets gnarly is if/when Turkey gets drawn into the conflict. Then, does that involve NATO forces by treaty?
It's not clear that it's practical for us to sit on the sidelines, planning to eating popcorn. Our economic well-being is inextricably interdependent on the world economy, which in turn still depends upon oil from the Middle East.
To the extent that your popcorn is imported, you might not have it much longer if this conflagration gets too out of hand.
(I know popcorn itself is not imported, it was a metaphor not a literalism)
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
Because just like the Protestants and the Catholics, they don't -- if you want a good example of the malarkey of "global sectarian conflict" look at the history of the 30 Years War or the Reconquista. As a broad stroke, 9th grade histories call these "religious wars." But when you look at what really happened, the religious labels were sometimes real and sometimes pretexts, and half the time people within the same ostensible religious bloc were fighting each other while allied with the "enemy" religion.
Tribalist conflicts sometimes look religious because the people over the next hill that we're trying to kill also have a different faith, and/or because as we go into battle we call on the mercy and might of Our Invisible Friend to defeat the evil, infidel, blahdy-blah. But those are just ways the fighters angle for strength, respect, justification, internal coherence, oppositional identity formation, etc. None of it's real.
Look at IS. They have zero interest in a Sunni/Shia global war. Any Sunni non-Salafi is just as evil to them as any Shia or Christian or atheist. Actually, they might be more evil, because the closer you are to the One Truth the more error is punished because it's pernicious. And I'm sure there are other Salafi groups who IS also has on their hit list, because if it's one thing the People's Front of Judea hates it's the Judean People's Front.
Because just like the Protestants and the Catholics, they don't -- if you want a good example of the malarkey of "global sectarian conflict" look at the history of the 30 Years War or the Reconquista. As a broad stroke, 9th grade histories call these "religious wars." But when you look at what really happened, the religious labels were sometimes real and sometimes pretexts, and half the time people within the same ostensible religious bloc were fighting each other while allied with the "enemy" religion.
Tribalist conflicts sometimes look religious because the people over the next hill that we're trying to kill also have a different faith, and/or because as we go into battle we call on the mercy and might of Our Invisible Friend to defeat the evil, infidel, blahdy-blah. But those are just ways the fighters angle for strength, respect, justification, internal coherence, oppositional identity formation, etc. None of it's real.
Look at IS. They have zero interest in a Sunni/Shia global war. Any Sunni non-Salafi is just as evil to them as any Shia or Christian or atheist. Actually, they might be more evil, because the closer you are to the One Truth the more error is punished because it's pernicious. And I'm sure there are other Salafi groups who IS also has on their hit list, because if it's one thing the People's Front of Judea hates it's the Judean People's Front.
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Re: Global War on Terror Version 7 - The Nightmare that Threatens the World!!!
Remember that during the First World War, both sides had the same religions praying for their side to win, because "God was on their side." They forgot that "The Universe does not care."
Remember that during the First World War, both sides had the same religions praying for their side to win, because "God was on their side." They forgot that "The Universe does not care."
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