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Gerrymandering: Quick, Draw!

FadeToBlack&Gold

FadeToBlack&Gold

No Quarter for Fascists
Since we're all whining about it, let's talk about it.

The way I would start solving it in many cases, is to start from scratch. Lay down a grid of squares/rectangles equal to the number of reps your state gets, then make reasonable adjustments for population requirements as necessary.

The goal is to have fewer districts that look like, for example, MI-11:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Michi...US_Congressional_District_11_(since_2013).tif

That approach likely will not work for every state, however. New York, for instance, where NYC and Lawn Guyland get about 15 of New York state's reps because of population density.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Y...congressional_districts_from_2013_to_2022.png

Some states have been moving to "independent" (from state houses) commissions in preparation for the re-draw after the 2020 census. Michigan will have a proposal on the ballot next month to implement one.
 
Re: Gerrymandering: Quick, Draw!

Of course there needs to be attention paid to population density, but crazy shapes can be avoided. Looking at NY's map there, that's actually an incredibly reasonable example of good districting. Do they use the legislature or an independent commission?
 
Re: Gerrymandering: Quick, Draw!

Iowa may screw up many things, but its redistricting process is a gold standard.
 
5mn_Major said:
Aim high. Your bound to come up short.
Click to expand...

Look, I know you think Minnesota's shiat don't stink, but Iowa's redistricting process gets cited nationally as one of the best in the country. It's non-partisan, it follows natural division lines where practicable, it creates compact districts, and it works smoothly.
 
Re: Gerrymandering: Quick, Draw!

unofan said:
Look, I know you think Minnesota's shiat don't stink, but Iowa's redistricting process gets cited nationally as one of the best in the country. It's non-partisan, it follows natural division lines where practicable, it creates compact districts, and it works smoothly.
Click to expand...

Its fine. As with MN, its just not much of a challenge. Its like education in a homogeneous, affluent city. Not as difficult.

Try districting a partisan, diverse state with rural areas and numerous major cities like FL.
 
Re: Gerrymandering: Quick, Draw!

Ohio voters passed a ballot measure in the spring that is designed to limit how much gerrymandering takes place. Politicians will draw the lines, but at least half of each party will need to approve the lines. If the lawmakers can't agree on it then a 7 person commission will draw the lines. The commission would be made up of the governor, auditor, secretary of state and four lawmakers – two from each of the major political parties. 4 of the 7 would have to agree, including at least 2 from both parties, meaning if 5 are republicans and the only democrats are the lawmakers, both Democratic lawmakers would have to be on board. At the end of the day if no plan would be approved in a bi-partisan fashion the party in power could draw the lines, but the districts would have to be re-drawn in four years, instead of 10 years.

I don't think you can completely eliminate gerrymandering, and there is always going to be interference from political parties, but at least this way both parties have to have input and both parties have to at least see SOME fairness in it. The senate used to work like that when you needed 60 votes for some things. 60 might have been too many, 55 maybe would be better, but some bipartisan consensus. I've always been a proponent that the speaker of the house should need at least a minimal amount of votes to win, perhaps 5% of the minority party. Think how much compromise there might be if a republican knew he or she needed even 10 or 15 democrats to vote for them.
 
unofan said:
Look, I know you think Minnesota's shiat don't stink, but Iowa's redistricting process gets cited nationally as one of the best in the country. It's non-partisan, it follows natural division lines where practicable, it creates compact districts, and it works smoothly.
Click to expand...

Don't waste you're time...he doesn't have time to read it ducking all those bullets in 394 ;)
 
Re: Gerrymandering: Quick, Draw!

Handyman said:
Don't waste you're time...he doesn't have time to read it ducking all those bullets in 394 ;)
Click to expand...

Cuz pretty much anyone would rather be shot than have to drive through Crystal. Of all places, why in the world would you choose to live there?
 
Re: Gerrymandering: Quick, Draw!

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
The goal is to have fewer districts that look like, for example, MI-11:
Click to expand...


Why? The shape is an entirely arbitrary measure of whether a particular district is well drawn or not. Why squares? Why not triangles or hexagons or trapezoids?

You need a different goal and then gerrymander the districts in favor of that goal. What is it? All like minded people together? All like minded people split evenly? People who like D&D in one and BMX racing in another? What do you want to accomplish?
 
Re: Gerrymandering: Quick, Draw!

Wisko McBadgerton said:
Why? The shape is an entirely arbitrary measure of whether a particular district is well drawn or not. Why squares? Why not triangles or hexagons or trapezoids?

You need a different goal and then gerrymander the districts in favor of that goal. What is it? All like minded people together? All like minded people split evenly? People who like D&D in one and BMX racing in another? What do you want to accomplish?
Click to expand...

I live in Michigan 11 and I have been working on this issue for a number of months.

As in many other areas, the guys in power see this as a threat to them and are doing everything they can, including lying about what will happen or how it works, to defeat it.
They also say if it passes they will sue every way possible to prevent change and thus every decision will be made by a judge in the end. This I do not believe, will be the result in the end, but it is what they say they will do..

I'm in favor of the change and I think it will benefit the people of the state. As far as methodology, there are a number of mathmatical models, but one thing I am against is using AI to make the decisions. As it is now, 21 states already have commissions to draw the districts.
 
Re: Gerrymandering: Quick, Draw!

manurespreader said:
I live in Michigan 11 and I have been working on this issue for a number of months.

As in many other areas, the guys in power see this as a threat to them and are doing everything they can, including lying about what will happen or how it works, to defeat it.
They also say if it passes they will sue every way possible to prevent change and thus every decision will be made by a judge in the end. This I do not believe, will be the result in the end, but it is what they say they will do..

I'm in favor of the change and I think it will benefit the people of the state. As far as methodology, there are a number of mathmatical models, but one thing I am against is using AI to make the decisions. As it is now, 21 states already have commissions to draw the districts.
Click to expand...

Thanks, I empathize, but my point wasn't that MI 11 is well drawn, it is that the shape of any given district is an arbitrary measure of whether it works or not. People don't live in geographical squares or any other shape. Presumably MI 11 is that shape as a result of gerrymandering it toward a specific goal. In this case, grouping voters in such a way as to give one party an advantage over another.

My point is that Fade said we should start over, draw squares and adjust them for population. Why? Why draw shapes on a map? What is the goal of that? Suppose that randomly results in districts that give R's +100 house seats? Are we still good?

What do these committees use as a goal when drawing district lines? That it looks nice on a map? That certain kinds of people are grouped together? What is the goal? Define that, then you can draw the lines.
 
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