Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

[MissThundercat]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

At Tyson, starting next year, I get two weeks vacation per year. I also get three "floating holidays," which are paid, and 16 hours unpaid time off.

And they're good about letting me have certain Saturdays off.

 

[Transplanted Tiger Fan]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

Here in New York, Paid Family Leave (aka FMLA) takes PTO to a whole new level. I am in full support of making-use of FMLA to care for a newborn or family member with a serious illness, however this system is wide-open for abuse. I have no idea how the Employees are abusing it, but I hear it regularly from the shop Foremen, especially on sunny warm-weather days.

 

[RaceBoarder]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

I've got 10 days of Vacation and it's use it or lose it. The turnover date on that is your hire date. This is another area where companies just don't give a crap about people on the lower levels and acting as the face of your company. Another reason why working in retail/service industries sucks.

My use has gotten several "off the record" complaints from management. I will use vacation days on Fridays/Saturdays in June/July. These days are not blacked out, but, especially the Saturdays following Father's Day, can be some of the busiest non-holiday days of the year. I'll get dirty looks every time I put in for them, but no one ever says anything "official" about me taking them. It's basically an off the record guilt trip tactic. They're ticked that I am smart enough to beat the game.

This system is also the only way I can survive, as I'm busting my rear working my 2nd job on these days. I'll make over 1/2 of my officiating income on these days and officiating baseball and football is about 25% of my total income. This is where all my spending money comes from, so if it goes away, I have almost no cash for "extras". It's basically a microcosm of the problems we face today...

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

29 days of PTO, carry over a max of 5. The carryover PTO must be used by March 15. My company then has 2 days of "Personal Holidays" that are essentially PTO of another name.

And then I also get the 10 federal holidays off, all paid.

I can also take up to 2 days off to work to instead work at various charities.

 

[wolverineTrumpet]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

Here in New York, Paid Family Leave (aka FMLA) takes PTO to a whole new level. I am in full support of making-use of FMLA to care for a newborn or family member with a serious illness, however this system is wide-open for abuse. I have no idea how the Employees are abusing it, but I hear it regularly from the shop Foremen, especially on sunny warm-weather days.

Paid FMLA? I thought that was unpaid. Co-worker has a wheelchair bound husband and spreads her FMLA out like crazy....a couple of afternoons each week it seems.

I have no vacation 'cause I didn't qualify for FMLA and when I had the baby, I had to use up the 1 week PTO I had before short term disability kicked in (at 60% pay).

Our workplace was bought up by a larger company this year and everyone is in a tizzy about the new PTO. It will be an interesting December when just last month they announced that there will be no PTO carryover (used to be able to carryover). They will be paying out any unused vacation, but we'll see.


Anyway, I came into this thread to complain about someone grinding my gears, not PTO.

Does anyone else have someone they know or work with that has mannerisms that just make you want to get away from them, or maybe kick them? This lady licks her lips and sticks her tongue out all the time. It's icky. She rocks back and forth when standing. She never shuts up, even when she was told (and was telling other people) that during the audit don't give extra information. Ughh... don't make crap up during an audit that you can't support, and don't try to act like you know everything about this place when you've been here for 4 months, and the people that have been here longer aren't saying things, not because they don't know how to answer, but because an answer isn't necessary. Shut up, shut up, shut up! Stop moving your tongue around. gross.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

21 days PTO year at my firm, career level, and less than 5 years seniority. I can rollover up to 6 weeks, but they won't pay out any excess unless state law requires it (California, basically). I also get one floating holiday that is "use it or lose it", plus all the standard paid US holidays.

Also, we have August fiscal years because we're awesome like that, which means the deadline for using any excess PTO is 8/31 each year.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

We don’t get any carryover. But I get three weeks plus five floaters. We also get nearly unlimited sick time. I would have gone unpaid without any vacation with PTO this year. All because I was sick.

**** the PTO system with a cactus. I’m glad my company doesn’t do PTO. yet.

I actually like the PTO system (we used to have 5 sick days a year and then VAC days, I maybe used 1 sick day a year, due to back issues), but were never reimbursed for the unused sick days. This combined method works for me. We also have *snicker* STD (short term disability), which I believe would cover a long illness like you had. That is separate from PTO stuff, kinda, IIRC.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

Yeah, that’s great. But it encourages (or even forces) people to work sick. That’s not ok in a civilized society.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

Yeah, that’s great. But it encourages (or even forces) people to work sick. That’s not ok in a civilized society.

Not really. The formerly "sick" days were added to the PTO time at our company. So it's a PTO day no matter what, you just had more of them.

 

[St. Clown]

Not really. The formerly "sick" days were added to the PTO time at our company. So it's a PTO day no matter what, you just had more of them.

People will work when they’re sick in the PTO system because they budget out more vacation days for themselves. It’s proven time and again.

 

[The Rube]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

People will work when they’re sick in the PTO system because they budget out more vacation days for themselves. It’s proven time and again.

I guess I work in a different environment. *shrug* Anecdotal, but truth where I work.

 

[MinnesotaNorthStar]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

We don’t get any carryover. But I get three weeks plus five floaters. We also get nearly unlimited sick time. I would have gone unpaid without any vacation with PTO this year. All because I was sick.

**** the PTO system with a cactus. I’m glad my company doesn’t do PTO. yet.

I get 2 weeks vacation an 2 weeks sick time this year at my current company. Can carry over 40 hours of vacation (we also have to take a week as one week) to the first quarter and get paid out if you don't take it as long as you made an attempt to, otherwise you lose it. They recently switched over to PTO for all non-union employees (I'm union) and the feedback from the non-union people we work with has been negative. We are in contract negotiations and it sounds like the company is really pushing PTO (main reason is we switched to Workday and that doesn't handle separate sick and vacation time well)...I only have 8 working days left with them though. Have no idea what I will get at the new company, but I hear it's a pretty decent amount.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

Workday handles it perfectly fine at my company. Tell them they’re full of ****.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

Workday handles it perfectly fine at my company. Tell them they’re full of ****.

Or had a sh*tty implementation of Workday, which is also not his fault.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

Yeah, that’s great. But it encourages (or even forces) people to work sick. That’s not ok in a civilized society.

We went from a system of sick days and vacation to just PTO. The PTO time given was the same as what each employee was given for sick time and for vacation time under the prior system. Under our old system it was true that you could only use the sick days if you were "sick" and not for vacation or for personal time off, so from that standpoint I suppose our new system does provide for some incentive, if you want to call it that, to come to work when you might otherwise claim a "sick day."

But the reason for the switch was I wanted to do away with the whole charade of trying to evaluate if they were "sick." We had employees who called in sick but were then seen at the grocery store that same day. I always thought it was just a farce.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

As always, the number of people gaming the system is a fraction of the number you think. The cost of policing and productivity because more people are sick working at lower productivity is all much worse than having separate days.

“Some incentive” he says dismissively. Every study shows there’s a fairly strong incentive to work sick. People always do what benefits them the most. It’s a law of nature. If they can work at 40%, still get paid for 8 hours, and get a vacation day, they will. They will also get others sick and now you have multiple people working at 40% instead of losing a single person for a day or two.

 

[jen]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

Workday handles it perfectly fine at my company. Tell them they’re full of ****.

We have Workday also, and it's split out. I get 5 weeks (based on 20 years with the company), plus 3 floaters, and a sick time number I can't remember. No carry over for vacation, but we can carry over sick time to a certain limit.

And federal FMLA leave is unpaid, to respond to an earlier post.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

But the reason for the switch was I wanted to do away with the whole charade of trying to evaluate if they were "sick." We had employees who called in sick but were then seen at the grocery store that same day. I always thought it was just a farce.

Particularly when you get towards the end of the year, and people try to sneak in unused sick time as personal days.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

As always, the number of people gaming the system is a fraction of the number you think. The cost of policing and productivity because more people are sick working at lower productivity is all much worse than having separate days.

“Some incentive” he says dismissively. Every study shows there’s a fairly strong incentive to work sick. People always do what benefits them the most. It’s a law of nature. If they can work at 40%, still get paid for 8 hours, and get a vacation day, they will. They will also get others sick and now you have multiple people working at 40% instead of losing a single person for a day or two.

All I can tell you is the employees like it better. In the past if they approached Christmas and hadn't had to use all their sick days, there was obviously "some incentive" to call in sick or simply lose the days. Now they can just use it as personal time off with no illness faking required.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Gear Grinding 9: I Need a Wine!

All I can tell you is the employees like it better. In the past if they approached Christmas and hadn't had to use all their sick days, there was obviously "some incentive" to call in sick or simply lose the days. Now they can just use it as personal time off with no illness faking required.

Right, because your employees share their true opinions with you. Another universal law of nature: They don't. People generally don't bite the hand that feeds them. Plus you've never given them the opportunity for unlimited sick time. You haven't offered them a true choice. You have dictated policy between two mediocre or bad choices. I've worked in four systems: No sick time, allotted sick time + allotted vacation, PTO, and effectively unlimited sick time + allotted vacation. My previous company converted from sick+vacation to PTO. It sucked. I didn't tell them I hated that idea because it was a small company and I had a job. I'm sure people told them, including me, that they liked the increased flexibility because in theory, it is better. But when it comes down to deciding whether I should come in sick and potentially infect other people, I decided that was the company's cost, not mine. Do I eat my vacation or go in sick? I will go in sick 100% of the time.

PTO might be favored by both parties in the right circumstances: Young, healthy workforce; fewer infants at home; low-paying jobs where vacations are an unobtainable luxury. My coworkers love the unlimited sick time here because they don't have to decide whether they come in sick or have to figure out how to care for a sick child and use vacation time instead. There is no deciding.

My current employer offers effectively unlimited sick time. You would think an employer as large as mine couldn't afford all these people gaming the system. You would think that it would scale accordingly and would still cost them the same percentage of employee-days if the system is gamed. The giant corporation understands that PTO is ultimately a bad deal for the employer. It encourages lower productivity employees to come in, potentially prolonging their illness because they aren't focused on their health while also possibly infecting other employees, further decreasing productivity. Why would a corporation offer such a giant honeypot if it's easily and often abused? Because it saves the company money and improves overall health and productivity. Plus, with unlimited sick time, there is no incentive to use it or lose it. It's not viewed as accrued benefits. It's just a benefit.

I have yet to ever come across a person who called in sick and faked it. Does it happen? I guarantee it does, just not at the rate you think. Then again, the average conservative also thinks drug testing welfare recipients is a good policy. So I guess that makes sense.

Edit: On the other hand, giant corporations are supremely efficient at ****ing their employees over the table without them knowing, so maybe I'm just getting screwed and I have no idea. Also likely.