Future D-III Championship sites

[Fishman'81]

Re: Future D-III Championship sites

Ya know, guys..?

It's pretty silly to even consider attendance in D-3 hockey. (Did any of you so much as hear the championship results even mentioned by any major media outlet, let alone any TV coverage..? No, of course not.) Our sport inhabits the tiniest of niches.

Why care about sellouts and so forth? I'd rather see a Utica sell 1600 tickets than to see a capacity crowd at an even smaller and more Podunk location, if only because I'd have the option of attending on short notice in the former situation.

"You can't make a silk purse, etc." Let's keep the D-3 FF an easy ticket to get, just for the sake of we few who care about the event.

 

[altazo]

Re: Future D-III Championship sites

Having this season's Frozen Four at Norwich, Adrian, Trinity, or SNC's home rink would have been a far more exciting and electric environment than Utica was and nobody could possibly convince me otherwise.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Having this season's Frozen Four at Norwich, Adrian, Trinity, or SNC's home rink would have been a far more exciting and electric environment than Utica was and nobody could possibly convince me otherwise.

From your couch when you don't get a ticket.....

 

[Fishman'81]

Re: Future D-III Championship sites

Having this season's Frozen Four at Norwich, Adrian, Trinity, or SNC's home rink would have been a far more exciting and electric environment than Utica was and nobody could possibly convince me otherwise.

That's not my point. "Access" was my point.

 

[altazo]

From your couch when you don't get a ticket.....

Sure, Denver is the closest NCAA program to me and I don't get to see nearly as many games as I'd like, especially D3 games.

Sorry, when I was talking about a more exciting atmosphere for the D3 Frozen Four it has nothing to do with your experience or my experience, but rather the young men who are actually participating in it. I was clearly able to decipher from the Internet feed that this years tournament would have been a lot more exciting and memorable for all those actually involved if it had been held at Kreitzberg.

 

[altazo]

That's not my point. "Access" was my point.

And my point is that it should be about the student athlete experience. Just different ideas...

 

[CARDS_rule_the_Burgh]

Did any of you so much as hear the championship results even mentioned by any major media outlet, let alone any TV coverage..?

Yes, I did. During the DI National Championship game on ESPN, Barry Melrose congratulated Norwich University on winning the D3 Men's National Championship (and 4th place in the women's tournament). He then went on to something like "Norwich is a good program. I've kinda adopted them, and they've adopted me." Which I found very comical.

 

[elbojpb]

Re: Future D-III Championship sites

"You can't make a silk purse, etc." Let's keep the D-3 FF an easy ticket to get, just for the sake of we few who care about the event.

The first lesson of Business School is that limited supply = greater demand.

 

[802Hockey]

Re: Future D-III Championship sites

Yes, I did. During the DI National Championship game on ESPN, Barry Melrose congratulated Norwich University on winning the D3 Men's National Championship (and 4th place in the women's tournament). He then went on to something like "Norwich is a good program. I've kinda adopted them, and they've adopted me." Which I found very comical.

hahaha I wish I heard that comment, nah Barry..we good.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Future D-III Championship sites

Sure, Denver is the closest NCAA program to me and I don't get to see nearly as many games as I'd like, especially D3 games.

Sorry, when I was talking about a more exciting atmosphere for the D3 Frozen Four it has nothing to do with your experience or my experience, but rather the young men who are actually participating in it. I was clearly able to decipher from the Internet feed that this years tournament would have been a lot more exciting and memorable for all those actually involved if it had been held at Kreitzberg.

You might want to check with some players first. When THEY don't get all the tickets for their families and friends to watch THEM play in an NCAA Championship. Ask them THEN how memorable it is. And yes, it use to happen and was wrong. I ended up giving a ticket to a family member back in 2001, and I know of another who was turned away at the door. Only 1 team normally enjoys playing at a campus site, the ones that are hosting.

2. Yes 1,500 for a Championship game is kind of a downer, but is still double (if not 7 times) of what 3 of the 4 teams in the Final Four were use to playing in since SNC averaged less than 900 during the regular season with is a little less than 50% of building capacity, Adrian less than 700, and Trinity less than 200. So playing in a half empty building is pretty normal for those DIII teams. It's not like they were playing in a 10,000 seat arena (look at the DI regionals if you want to see pathetic).

3. I go back to 2007-2008 Norwich (#3 1,982), Plattsburgh (#5 1,631), Elmira (#6 1,482), and SNC (#8 1,204)
Semi Finals: 5,600
Finals: 4,770

Had Oswego, Plattsburgh or god forbid Utica showed up in the boxscore this year, this whole complaint would have been mute.

The other huge difference that year was Satuday/Sunday IMO. Having Friday afternoon games is too tough for teams (especially Western folks) to get there. Some people just can not get Fridays off. And don't come at me with the Sat/Sun debacle in Superior. That year was just a mess that the majority of DIII would like to forget.

I've driven all night to get in line at 3am for tickets, at home and away rinks, and while I love the experience hanging out with other diehard fans in line it's nice to just be able to walk up the week of and get a ticket. Nevermind the hotel situations when fans (and families) would whine and cry they had to stay 30-45 minutes away because the hotels were full.

If this were DIII Women's hockey (no offense here ladies) where the highest attendance is around 400 (which would be out of the Top 25 in mens)....there would be no problem having it at a small 1,500 seat arena.

I can't wait for it to go back to campus sites and the NCAA says "sorry we don't have time to set up a video feed for your game, tune in on your radio dial to listen to the game since you can't get a ticket", and watch everyone cry. And when the host team loses, and the Championship game gets 500 fans what then? Do we make a rule that if the host team loses Friday night in the Semi Final we relocate to the next highest seed for a Saturday Championship so we have a good atmosphere? Or the first time you go to Norwich, and they hand you your allotted tickets and 75% of them are standing room only. Maybe living in Denver you don't care as much, but I'm sorry, I'd like to watch my team play....not "hope I can get a ticket"....

 

[altazo]

You might want to check with some players first. When THEY don't get all the tickets for their families and friends to watch THEM play in an NCAA Championship. Ask them THEN how memorable it is. And yes, it use to happen and was wrong. I ended up giving a ticket to a family member back in 2001, and I know of another who was turned away at the door. Only 1 team normally enjoys playing at a campus site, the ones that are hosting.

2. Yes 1,500 for a Championship game is kind of a downer, but is still double (if not 7 times) of what 3 of the 4 teams in the Final Four were use to playing in since SNC averaged less than 900 during the regular season with is a little less than 50% of building capacity, Adrian less than 700, and Trinity less than 200. So playing in a half empty building is pretty normal for those DIII teams. It's not like they were playing in a 10,000 seat arena (look at the DI regionals if you want to see pathetic).

3. I go back to 2007-2008 Norwich (#3 1,982), Plattsburgh (#5 1,631), Elmira (#6 1,482), and SNC (#8 1,204)
Semi Finals: 5,600
Finals: 4,770

Had Oswego, Plattsburgh or god forbid Utica showed up in the boxscore this year, this whole complaint would have been mute.

The other huge difference that year was Satuday/Sunday IMO. Having Friday afternoon games is too tough for teams (especially Western folks) to get there. Some people just can not get Fridays off. And don't come at me with the Sat/Sun debacle in Superior. That year was just a mess that the majority of DIII would like to forget.

I've driven all night to get in line at 3am for tickets, at home and away rinks, and while I love the experience hanging out with other diehard fans in line it's nice to just be able to walk up the week of and get a ticket. Nevermind the hotel situations when fans (and families) would whine and cry they had to stay 30-45 minutes away because the hotels were full.

If this were DIII Women's hockey (no offense here ladies) where the highest attendance is around 400 (which would be out of the Top 25 in mens)....there would be no problem having it at a small 1,500 seat arena.

I can't wait for it to go back to campus sites and the NCAA says "sorry we don't have time to set up a video feed for your game, tune in on your radio dial to listen to the game since you can't get a ticket", and watch everyone cry. And when the host team loses, and the Championship game gets 500 fans what then? Do we make a rule that if the host team loses Friday night in the Semi Final we relocate to the next highest seed for a Saturday Championship so we have a good atmosphere? Or the first time you go to Norwich, and they hand you your allotted tickets and 75% of them are standing room only. Maybe living in Denver you don't care as much, but I'm sorry, I'd like to watch my team play....not "hope I can get a ticket"....

You seem kinda mad. Researching teams seasonal attendance, etc. Sorry about that.

I would think there would be a ticket allowance for each team, so family members who wanted to attend would likely be able to, but what do I know. When I played at SNC, playing at a packed Stevens Point in front of 1800 people was a lot more exciting than playing St John's in St Cloud State's big, empty modern facility. And guess what? My parents were able to attend both.

That year Plattsburgh won the championship but then had it revoked because they couldn't abide by the D3 bylaws it was held at a campus location, correct? I'll bet that atmosphere was electric.

I don't live in Dever either. I simply said they were the nearest NCAA program to me.

And unfortunately, I still contend that Utica only does well with home attendance because they serve alcohol at games.

Edit: Regarding Superior hosting in 2007, I gotta think Oswego looks back on that one with fond memories, but again, you'd know better than me...

 

[joecct]

Re: Future D-III Championship sites

Use a Paige playoff. Home team gets 2 games. Teams are seeded 1 - 4

Day 1 Game 1: 1 v 2. Game 2: 3 v 4
Day 2 Game 3. loser 1 v winner 2
Day 3 Championship winner 1 v winner 3

 

[altazo]

Re: Future D-III Championship sites

And you're right PSUchampion, the atmosphere at an Adrian home game is garbage. After all, they only average 700/game... in an arena that seats 500.

 

[joecct]

And you're right PSUchampion, the atmosphere at an Adrian home game is garbage. After all, they only average 700/game... in an arena that seats 500.

Isn't that too small for a national semi & final??

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Future D-III Championship sites

You seem kinda mad. Researching teams seasonal attendance, etc. Sorry about that.

It's called facts. Everyone can have an opinion, mean's a little more when you have facts to back them up.

I would think there would be a ticket allowance for each team, so family members who wanted to attend would likely be able to, but what do I know. When I played at SNC, playing at a packed Stevens Point in front of 1800 people was a lot more exciting than playing St John's in St Cloud State's big, empty modern facility. And guess what? My parents were able to attend both.

Yes there is. And it still wouldn't be enough. In 2001 (memory serving me correct) Plattsburgh was given 150 tickets. That's was for alumni, family, coaches family, non participating players, staff, ect ect. And I still had to drive to RIT and sit in line to get a ticket for a parent of a player that year. There was also a defensmen who's family member was turned away at the door. He didn't think he was going to be able to go since Plattsburgh was a longshot having to go into Middlebury, but then was able make the trek last minute.

Once again, you're trying to compare a team that plays in a 5200 seat arena and averages 250 fans or a 5.7% capacity to a pre-determined NCAA Championship where it's 50%....and like I said. If UWSP doesn't make the Championship game, there's not 1,800 fans there. Do you remember the Middlebury RIT game in UWRF....?? Crickets....great atmosphere. Or the UWSP Midd game in Plattsburgh in '98...it was electric.... What about the amazing atmosphere in 2000 when UWS was bounced in the Semi Finals? I just said this isn't like we are playing in HUGE 10,000 seat arenas. This isn't DIII lacrosse playing in huge stadiums with a couple thousand fans.

That year Plattsburgh won the championship but then had it revoked because they couldn't abide by the D3 bylaws it was held at a campus location, correct? I'll bet that atmosphere was electric.

What's your point? Trying to make a little dig? Yes it was, so wasn't '92. So wasn't 2001. '98 wasn't bad either. 2008 was pretty good too. A hell of a lot better than years where the host wasn't in the Championship game. Plattsburgh also seated over 3,000 for those games as well. A lot different than a 500 seat arena, or a rink where 10 mites can't fit in a locker room.

I don't live in Dever either. I simply said they were the nearest NCAA program to me.

Cool, you're 7 hours from Denver in BF Egypt. Point is you're even farther from DIII hockey, like you said, and don't get to watch as much as you would like. So whether it's next door or a couple miles away, it wouldn't matter.

And unfortunately, I still contend that Utica only does well with home attendance because they serve alcohol at games.

No Alcohol.......

March 9th, 2013
NCAA Division III Quarterfinal
Bowdoin at Utica
3,847 (sellout)

Is that why no one shows up in Minnesota too? I mean they only filled it less than 50% and was even worse in the early game Friday....

Edit: Regarding Superior hosting in 2007, I gotta think Oswego looks back on that one with fond memories, but again, you'd know better than me...

Yes, changing behind tarps is just great. My point was it was a Saturday Sunday event (which I think should be the norm) that still only drew 1000 people for the Finals, thus shouldn't be taken into consideration when discussing the Saturday/Sunday vs Friday/Saturday discussion. There was no worries in getting a ticket there. Oswego was complaining just a couple years ago when they (and it went back to players as well) didn't get tickets for their massive 500 seat rink. This is when (just for your information) visiting teams are allotted 1/3 of the tickets. If that becomes a Final Four, those 165 tickets drops to about 100 or less. Good luck getting everyone a ticket then, while the host team gets the majority.

Maybe you're misunderstanding my point. I am not claiming DIII needs to play their games in 10,000 NHL rinks like DI. Even 5,000 is pushing it (with maybe Lake Placid being an exception) and maybe the years a Western team should host since they can't draw well at per-determined sites.

Pre-Determined sites should be IMO:

* 3,000 - 4,000 seats
* within proximity to DIII hockey
* Saturday / Sunday (early evening)
* more fan friendly to actually bring people in (re-admittance policy, ticket procedure, things to do, fan zone)

If you want to go to Campus sites: (mind you Women's hockey is the only sport having Campus Site Championships)

* 2500 seats
* tickets are divided EQUALLY in 1/4's. What ever is left over goes back to the host school for DAY OF PURCHASE ONLY giving everyone a chance to get them.
* NCAA releases the rights to video broadcast the game to a group who wants to do it (D3Hockey, NSN, Oswego, combined effort)

I am 100% with you that it should be about the player, no doubt. Which is exactly my point. Maybe you were lucky, I don't know. But I have a couple personal experiences dealing with PLAYERS and their families and not getting tickets. And I'm sure if I do, other's do as well, and THAT is what is not fair. Playing in a shoebox like Adrian or Hobart (Adrian is still a nice rink don't get me wrong) would not allow every player, alumni, family member ect the opportunity to attend the game. I mean maybe we can make it like the SNC - Minn "game" a couple years ago and just lock the doors and play in front of no one, the atmosphere will be amazing then.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

Re: Future D-III Championship sites

Isn't that too small for a national semi & final??

It wasn't for the Women's. That's the question if we go back to Campus sites. What will be the number? Will it be 3,000 eliminating the majority of rinks where the same team hosts year after year because no one else can, or will they lower it to 1,500 which will make tickets nearly impossible to get? As I just said, out West (midWest) who cares. Go for it. But you try to pack an NCAA Final Four in a 1,500 seat arena where any two of Utica, Plattsburgh, Norwich, Geneseo, and or Oswego make it.....good luck with that. Or will they let the 10-loss 4 seed (say Oswego) host because they have more seats over a 1-loss #1 Babson team?

Like I said, as long as places are willing to bid on it, the NCAA doesn't care how empty it is. Just look at the other sports and how empty some of their Championship games are. Football saw 3,000 in an 7,100 seat stadium. Lacrosse was even worse.

 

[altazo]

It's called facts. Everyone can have an opinion, mean's a little more when you have facts to back them up.



Yes there is. And it still wouldn't be enough. In 2001 (memory serving me correct) Plattsburgh was given 150 tickets. That's was for alumni, family, coaches family, non participating players, staff, ect ect. And I still had to drive to RIT and sit in line to get a ticket for a parent of a player that year. There was also a defensmen who's family member was turned away at the door. He didn't think he was going to be able to go since Plattsburgh was a longshot having to go into Middlebury, but then was able make the trek last minute.

Once again, you're trying to compare a team that plays in a 5200 seat arena and averages 250 fans or a 5.7% capacity to a pre-determined NCAA Championship where it's 50%....and like I said. If UWSP doesn't make the Championship game, there's not 1,800 fans there. Do you remember the Middlebury RIT game in UWRF....?? Crickets....great atmosphere. Or the UWSP Midd game in Plattsburgh in '98...it was electric.... What about the amazing atmosphere in 2000 when UWS was bounced in the Semi Finals? I just said this isn't like we are playing in HUGE 10,000 seat arenas. This isn't DIII lacrosse playing in huge stadiums with a couple thousand fans.



What's your point? Trying to make a little dig? Yes it was, so wasn't '92. So wasn't 2001. '98 wasn't bad either. 2008 was pretty good too. A hell of a lot better than years where the host wasn't in the Championship game. Plattsburgh also seated over 3,000 for those games as well. A lot different than a 500 seat arena, or a rink where 10 mites can't fit in a locker room.




Cool, you're 7 hours from Denver in BF Egypt. Point is you're even farther from DIII hockey, like you said, and don't get to watch as much as you would like. So whether it's next door or a couple miles away, it wouldn't matter.


No Alcohol.......

March 9th, 2013
NCAA Division III Quarterfinal
Bowdoin at Utica
3,847 (sellout)

Is that why no one shows up in Minnesota too? I mean they only filled it less than 50% and was even worse in the early game Friday....



Yes, changing behind tarps is just great. My point was it was a Saturday Sunday event (which I think should be the norm) that still only drew 1000 people for the Finals, thus shouldn't be taken into consideration when discussing the Saturday/Sunday vs Friday/Saturday discussion. There was no worries in getting a ticket there. Oswego was complaining just a couple years ago when they (and it went back to players as well) didn't get tickets for their massive 500 seat rink. This is when (just for your information) visiting teams are allotted 1/3 of the tickets. If that becomes a Final Four, those 165 tickets drops to about 100 or less. Good luck getting everyone a ticket then, while the host team gets the majority.

Maybe you're misunderstanding my point. I am not claiming DIII needs to play their games in 10,000 NHL rinks like DI. Even 5,000 is pushing it (with maybe Lake Placid being an exception) and maybe the years a Western team should host since they can't draw well at per-determined sites.

Pre-Determined sites should be IMO:

* 3,000 - 4,000 seats
* within proximity to DIII hockey
* Saturday / Sunday (early evening)
* more fan friendly to actually bring people in (re-admittance policy, ticket procedure, things to do, fan zone)

If you want to go to Campus sites: (mind you Women's hockey is the only sport having Campus Site Championships)

* 2500 seats
* tickets are divided EQUALLY in 1/4's. What ever is left over goes back to the host school for DAY OF PURCHASE ONLY giving everyone a chance to get them.
* NCAA releases the rights to video broadcast the game to a group who wants to do it (D3Hockey, NSN, Oswego, combined effort)

I am 100% with you that it should be about the player, no doubt. Which is exactly my point. Maybe you were lucky, I don't know. But I have a couple personal experiences dealing with PLAYERS and their families and not getting tickets. And I'm sure if I do, other's do as well, and THAT is what is not fair. Playing in a shoebox like Adrian or Hobart (Adrian is still a nice rink don't get me wrong) would not allow every player, alumni, family member ect the opportunity to attend the game. I mean maybe we can make it like the SNC - Minn "game" a couple years ago and just lock the doors and play in front of no one, the atmosphere will be amazing then.

SNC tied Wisconsin behind closed doors, not Minnesota. Just wanted to clear that up because you are such a stickler with the facts.

Here's another fact for ya: despite not living close a D3 program, it's really really nice where I live. Promise.

 

[PSUChamps2001]

SNC tied Wisconsin behind closed doors, not Minnesota. Just wanted to clear that up because you are such a stickler with the facts, PSUIntetnetworldchamp.

Here's another fact for ya: despite not living close a D3 program, it's really really nice where I live. Promise.

Thanks. Badgers Gophers...same **** different day.

And I'm sure it is, once again nothing to do with it.

 

[joecct]

It wasn't for the Women's. That's the question if we go back to Campus sites. What will be the number? Will it be 3,000 eliminating the majority of rinks where the same team hosts year after year because no one else can, or will they lower it to 1,500 which will make tickets nearly impossible to get? As I just said, out West (midWest) who cares. Go for it. But you try to pack an NCAA Final Four in a 1,500 seat arena where any two of Utica, Plattsburgh, Norwich, Geneseo, and or Oswego make it.....good luck with that. Or will they let the 10-loss 4 seed (say Oswego) host because they have more seats over a 1-loss #1 Babson team?

Like I said, as long as places are willing to bid on it, the NCAA doesn't care how empty it is. Just look at the other sports and how empty some of their Championship games are. Football saw 3,000 in an 7,100 seat stadium. Lacrosse was even worse.

Women, unfortunately, don't draw.

I'd love for Clarkson & Potsdam do a joint bid to host the men's final four. Clarkson has tbe barn and has hosted conference championships and volleyball regionals. Potsdam is the D3 hockey school.

Cherl holds around 3K - more with standing roon.

 

[altazo]

Thanks. Badgers Gophers...same **** different day.

And I'm sure it is, once again nothing to do with it.

No, no. Just clarifying because you chose to take a personal dig at me and where I live, PSUInternetworldchamp.

Somehow I had a feeling the extent of your involvement with PSU's title in 2001 was limited to standing in line for some tickets.