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Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

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Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

ScoobyDoo said:
Speaking of Kansas.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/07/u...s-kansas-dispute-over-powers.html?ref=us&_r=0
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Somebody should have whispered to Brownback that the only way tax cuts for the rich looks like its working is if you simultaneously jack up defense spending through the roof (see, Reagan, or Bush II). Given that Kansas doesn't have its own standing army or the ability to declare war against its neighbors or other countries, this scheme of his was doomed to fail from the start.
 
Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

Rover said:
Somebody should have whispered to Brownback that the only way tax cuts for the rich looks like its working is if you simultaneously jack up defense spending through the roof (see, Reagan, or Bush II). Given that Kansas doesn't have its own standing army or the ability to declare war against its neighbors or other countries, this scheme of his was doomed to fail from the start.
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You also have to borrow like there's no tomorrow. Walter Mondale had the most concise description of Reaganomics ever: "Anybody can fake prosperity if you let them write enough hot checks." By fiscal conservative standards Reagan was a disaster, and Brownback and these latter day Ronnies will if anything probably do slightly less terribly.
 
Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

Kepler said:
You also have to borrow like there's no tomorrow. Walter Mondale had the most concise description of Reaganomics ever: "Anybody can fake prosperity if you let them write enough hot checks." By fiscal conservative standards Reagan was a disaster, and Brownback and these latter day Ronnies will if anything probably do slightly less terribly.
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In 1980, Jimmy Carter's last year as president, the federal government spent a whopping 27.9% of "national income" (an obnoxious term for the private wealth produced by the American people). Reagan assaulted the free-spending Carter administration throughout his campaign in 1980. So how did the Reagan administration do? At the end of the first quarter of 1988, federal spending accounted for 28.7% of "national income."

Even Ford and Carter did a better job at cutting government. Their combined presidential terms account for an increase of 1.4%—compared with Reagan's 3%—in the government's take of "national income."
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This is why when anyone says Reagan during a debate you need to immediately dismiss his/her competency and move on.
 
Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

ScoobyDoo said:
This is why when anyone says Reagan during a debate you need to immediately dismiss his/her competency and move on.
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I was laughing about that in 2012. Righties were still bringing up the 1980 election, a full 32 years after it occured. I vaguely remember the 1980 election, but I'm almost certain nobody was comparing it to 1948. Even better will be 2016, when the same dinosaur pundidiots will STILL be bringing up the 1980 election, even though the youngest people to have participated in that contest are now in their mid-50's.
 
Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

Rover said:
I was laughing about that in 2012. Righties were still bringing up the 1980 election, a full 32 years after it occured. I vaguely remember the 1980 election, but I'm almost certain nobody was comparing it to 1948. Even better will be 2016, when the same dinosaur pundidiots will STILL be bringing up the 1980 election, even though the youngest people to have participated in that contest are now in their mid-50's.
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Consider: in 2016 the 1980 election will be as far in the past as FDR was at the time of the 1980 election!

There are many similarities between FDR Democrats and Reagan Republicans. They each remained entranced by the cult of personality long after it had ceased to be relevant to anybody else. Democrats were still, at least unconsciously, running on FDR's legacy in 1980, which is one reason there was such a gap between their ideas and the actual political reality of the time. Reagan's America, if it ever existed outside TV studios and carefully scripted ranch horseback riding, is as irrelevant to the present day as Happy Days Are Here Again was to the 80s. But the True Believers aren't just the last to know -- they never know, they just die off.
 
Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

For all the cynics out there, I'd take heart in three developments which have completely changed the conversation we're having about economic/budgetary issues.

1) Tax cuts for the rich pay for themselves. For far, far too long, cons got away with promising top level tax cuts because a disproportionate amount of the electorate thought they were paying the top rate. Now, you can call out say Paul Ryan with an effective rejoiner: Why are $1 trillion of his tax cuts going to the 1 %? Few people think they're in the top 1% of earners, meaning for most people supply side/trickle down economics is dead.

2) Minimum wage increases hurt jobs. Maybe it was the whining over the millionare Papa Johns owner crying over having to charge 10 cents more per pizza to give his employees a decent wage. Maybe its when even Wal-Mart woke up and raised wages. Regardless, in ballot initiatives minimum wage hikes have been money across the country. Only hard core idiots or people being paid by libertarian think tanks believe that McDonalds will start shutting down if they have to pay their staff a few more bucks an hour.

3) All free trade agreements are a net positive for the US economy. They might be, but not necessarily so any deal requires scrutiny. Allowing even cheaper goods manufactured by overseas slave laborers is NOT a good reason to sign a trade agreement especially if you put US workers out of business. Thankfully people are starting to get this concept.
 
Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

Rover said:
For all the cynics out there, I'd take heart in three developments which have completely changed the conversation we're having about economic/budgetary issues.

1) Tax cuts for the rich pay for themselves. For far, far too long, cons got away with promising top level tax cuts because a disproportionate amount of the electorate thought they were paying the top rate. Now, you can call out say Paul Ryan with an effective rejoiner: Why are $1 trillion of his tax cuts going to the 1 %? Few people think they're in the top 1% of earners, meaning for most people supply side/trickle down economics is dead.

2) Minimum wage increases hurt jobs. Maybe it was the whining over the millionare Papa Johns owner crying over having to charge 10 cents more per pizza to give his employees a decent wage. Maybe its when even Wal-Mart woke up and raised wages. Regardless, in ballot initiatives minimum wage hikes have been money across the country. Only hard core idiots or people being paid by libertarian think tanks believe that McDonalds will start shutting down if they have to pay their staff a few more bucks an hour.

3) All free trade agreements are a net positive for the US economy. They might be, but not necessarily so any deal requires scrutiny. Allowing even cheaper goods manufactured by overseas slave laborers is NOT a good reason to sign a trade agreement especially if you put US workers out of business. Thankfully people are starting to get this concept.
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Point 1: It depends on what you're cutting or raising. Every tax cut affects the rich in one way or another; that's just how a progressive tax structure works. The only issue is that the majority of the "wealth" reported for "the 1%" is typically in either tax-exempt (health benefits and what not) or tax-deferred (stock options and shares which are only taxed when gains are realized) containers, not necessarily in salary or self-employment money, which are what are taxed immediately at the brackets you're looking to go after.

Point 2: McDonald's won't shut down, they'll just use technological advancements to reduce recurring labour costs, such as self-service kiosks and automated burger flippers. The ones shutting down will be the mom-and-pop shops, as they're the ones REALLY concerned about labour costs and would require a five-year plan for technological advancements. We're seeing it in Seattle already, but it seems you're too focused on Infowars' version of the US flag (the stars and stripes consist of the logos of public traded large- and mid-cap companies).

Point 3: Even if there wasn't a free trade agreement, the import costs are still less than labour costs domestically. If you want those sorts of industries here, then be competitive. It's easy to lower wages if you have deflation. If you want to lower said cost of living, start by reducing the dependency on property taxes (which drive up rental and housing costs), ending the forced dependence on utilities (as seen in Florida), and repal zoning and building ordinances designed to prop up a bloated real estate market (the attack on tiny houses). Just remove a couple of key dominoes, and they'll stop falling.
 
Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

Dems seem to do ok with this economy thing. During the Obama administration, nearly tripled the stock market and went from wiping out a generation of wealth to most job openings since the internet boom. Just need to address the deficit and international complications now.
 
Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

5mn_Major said:
Dems seem to do ok with this economy thing. During the Obama administration, nearly tripled the stock market and went from wiping out a generation of wealth to most job openings since the internet boom. Just need to address the deficit and international complications now.
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Ignoring inflation, are we? How about the record number of people on food stamps and/or not in the work force? Plus, the prices of many individual mid-cap stocks are nowhere near the levels they were in 2006 and 2007. But, if you want to judge an entire economy on an index of thirty coporations, one of which was intentionally changed to an over-valued pile of crap (i.e. Apple), keep telling yourself that lie.
 
Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

FlagDUDE08 said:
Ignoring inflation, are we? How about the record number of people on food stamps and/or not in the work force? Plus, the prices of many individual mid-cap stocks are nowhere near the levels they were in 2006 and 2007. But, if you want to judge an entire economy on an index of thirty coporations, one of which was intentionally changed to an over-valued pile of crap (i.e. Apple), keep telling yourself that lie.
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The overall economy is certainly in much better shape than when Obama took over. I share your skepticism about the DJIA being a good indicator of the overall health of the economy -- it's basically an index of how well the financial industry and the 1% are ripping us all off -- but Obama has also presided over a huge number of private sector jobs being regained while cutting public sector jobs. If he had an "R" after his name the Echo Chamber would be calling him a great president.
 
Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

Exactly. Last two Dem Presidents have been big job creators, and they've done it without massive increases in the defense budget. Last GOP President to preside over job creation that wasn't defense industry driven???? Ike maybe?
 
Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

Kepler said:
The overall economy is certainly in much better shape than when Obama took over. I share your skepticism about the DJIA being a good indicator of the overall health of the economy -- it's basically an index of how well the financial industry and the 1% are ripping us all off -- but Obama has also presided over a huge number of private sector jobs being regained while cutting public sector jobs. If he had an "R" after his name the Echo Chamber would be calling him a great president.
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You talk about how many jobs were created, but how many have been eliminated? How many full-time jobs were converted to two (or more) part-time jobs in order to comply with the PPACA? How many of these "private sector areas" are involving either government compliance, such as health care administration, government sell-off of public sector areas, such as the private prison system, or some form of government kickback, similar to what Solyndra received? How do you explain that the number of eligible people in this country not in the work force is at an all-time high, thereby not being able to fulfill these "created jobs"?

Once you are awoken to what is actually going on in the world, you understand that the knucks propping up the military-industrial complex or the prison-industrial complex does not make a great president.
 
Re: Frayed Ends: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 3.0

Here is some anecdotal evidence on the most unreadable site ever.
 
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