Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

[MTUHuskies]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

Is the stick of the player behind touching his hand?

You cannot tell from this angle. His stick was definitely up, but he did not hook him and he did not affect the BG Guy's shot. Also if he didn't fall (on his own I might add) I doubt anything would have been called.

 

[CKrouth]

You are correct. Fans will complain about officials at every level. But I don't think this is just because Tech lost. BGSU was the better team and deserved to win. It is more a case of the inconsistency and the officials losing control of the game. I do not know the details of how he got injured, but I suspect Baylis would not be out for the season if the officials did a better job. The scrum at the end of Game 1 would not have happened.

As for a couple calls that I questioned, they are Polglaze getting 5 +game on Friday night for a questionable checking from behind. From what I saw watching Flo, it appeared that the BG player initiated the contact as much as Polglaze did. I'd like to hear the explanation on that one.

Another call I questioned was the penalty shot on Saturday. I have always been of the understanding that a penalty shot is to restore a lost scoring opportunity. The BG player was able to get a shot off that Jurusik had to make a save on. That to me is not worthy of a penalty shot. A minor was even questionable on that play but I would not have argued one if I was standing behind the bench.

And I'll admit I'm no expert on the subject. I've only spent 20 years officiating (none over the HS and Midget AAA level and not for the last 15 years) so I'd like you to take my comments in perspective and give me a break.

Good luck to the four teams remaining. Even though my favourite team has been eliminated, there is plenty of good hockey to watch in the next few weeks.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

Per the NCAA rulebook:

...must have been denied a reasonable chance to score (the fact that he got a shot off does not automatically eliminate this play from the penalty shot consideration criteria. If the foul was from behind and he was denied a “more” reasonable scoring opportunity due to the foul, then the penalty shot should be awarded).

Most likely they determined the player was denied a better scoring opportunity and awarded the penalty shot.

 

[pdt1081]

You cannot tell from this angle. His stick was definitely up, but he did not hook him and he did not affect the BG Guy's shot. Also if he didn't fall (on his own I might add) I doubt anything would have been called.

It the stick is on the hand, it's a penalty. Doesn't matter if he "hooks" him or not. The stick is there to hinder the shot.

 

[MTUHuskies]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

Per the NCAA rulebook:

...must have been denied a reasonable chance to score (the fact that he got a shot off does not automatically eliminate this play from the penalty shot consideration criteria. If the foul was from behind and he was denied a “more” reasonable scoring opportunity due to the foul, then the penalty shot should be awarded).

Most likely they determined the player was denied a better scoring opportunity and awarded the penalty shot.

Thanks for the rule clarification, but I maintain, even more so now that I see the video posted by pdt1081 that he did not affect BG Guy's shot attempt. The only way I can think of how that play would have affected the shooter is if he heard "footsteps" and rushed his shot. And you cannot penalize that.

So it comes back to the original subject of the thread. How did the officials determine he was denied a better scoring opportunity? As Huskiefan906 said earlier, these boys deserve better officiating at the D1 level.

 

[MTUHuskies]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

It the stick is on the hand, it's a penalty. Doesn't matter if he "hooks" him or not. The stick is there to hinder the shot.

This view does not show that the stick is on the hand, and if you watch the motion of his hand, it doesn't seem to be affected by the stick being where it is.

 

[devildog]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

Being an official is a thankless job. Some professional sports are trying to automate calls which I think is very unwise. We want perfection, but officials are human and will make mistakes. It is human nature. All I ask from officials in any sport is consistency. When officials are consistent in their calls, it is up to the players of the given sport to adjust to those calls.

There are some fan bases on here that are not happy unless they complain. They also tend to believe their team never does anything wrong. I admit to complaining at times when I feel consistency is lacking. I think we all need to look in the mirror and realize these men and women that are officials are doing a difficult job. Are some officials better than others? Of course. Would we like to be complained about in our jobs day in and day out? I don't think so.

In any sport, consistency in officiating is the difference between good and bad officials. That said, I may have witnessed a bunch of bad officiating, but I never met an official that wanted to be or tried to be bad, (cheat).
I know this is not part of this specific discussion, but I work in high schools and deal in high school athletics here in Southern Indiana and Kentucky. We have one heck of a time finding officials. Why? Well, ask yourself, would you put up with it?
I think in hockey, as in basketball, some of the rules are terribly difficult to call consistently. Some officials are better than others, but every official in every sport misses calls from time to time. We have to accept that, as it will never change.

 

[Hockey John]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

In any sport, consistency in officiating is the difference between good and bad officials. That said, I may have witnessed a bunch of bad officiating, but I never met an official that wanted to be or tried to be bad, (cheat).
I know this is not part of this specific discussion, but I work in high schools and deal in high school athletics here in Southern Indiana and Kentucky. We have one heck of a time finding officials. Why? Well, ask yourself, would you put up with it?
I think in hockey, as in basketball, some of the rules are terribly difficult to call consistently. Some officials are better than others, but every official in every sport misses calls from time to time. We have to accept that, as it will never change.

Well said. Thank you for your time with the kids.

 

[BGDrew]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

http://www.bgsuhockey.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/3.9.19-vs-MichiganTech-6638.jpg

The Tech skater’s stick is clearly on Letourneau’s right glove in this shot from our photographer.

 

[MTUHuskies]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

http://www.bgsuhockey.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/3.9.19-vs-MichiganTech-6638.jpg

The Tech skater’s stick is clearly on Letourneau’s right glove in this shot from our photographer.

Or it could be 2" closer to the camera than his right glove is. This photo is no more conclusive than the video from the other angle. Although it does show that the official's view could have been blocked by Letourneau's body, again inconclusive from this angle. In any case, by watching the video posted earlier, can you honestly say that Letourneau was "denied a more reasonable scoring opportunity" by Gotz's actions?

 

[MTUHuskies]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

In any sport, consistency in officiating is the difference between good and bad officials. That said, I may have witnessed a bunch of bad officiating, but I never met an official that wanted to be or tried to be bad, (cheat).
I know this is not part of this specific discussion, but I work in high schools and deal in high school athletics here in Southern Indiana and Kentucky. We have one heck of a time finding officials. Why? Well, ask yourself, would you put up with it?
I think in hockey, as in basketball, some of the rules are terribly difficult to call consistently. Some officials are better than others, but every official in every sport misses calls from time to time. We have to accept that, as it will never change.

Very valid points. But officials know what they are signing up for and as stated before these boys deserve better at the D1 level.

 

[FadeToBlack&Gold]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

 

[pdt1081]

Or it could be 2" closer to the camera than his right glove is. This photo is no more conclusive than the video from the other angle. Although it does show that the official's view could have been blocked by Letourneau's body, again inconclusive from this angle. In any case, by watching the video posted earlier, can you honestly say that Letourneau was "denied a more reasonable scoring opportunity" by Gotz's actions?

I will absolutely say 100% it did. Even a slight tap on the stick/hand is enough to throw off the shot. Reaching for a player with the stick is one of the interpretations that was changed a few years ago in an effort to eliminate the WCHA style of play (remember the season that started with all the confusing penalties for minor "touches" that we had all grown used to?). Those are still in effect, just ignored by the WCHA.

 

[davyd83]

It was not about losing the series, just the continued inconsistency the entire season of WCHA refs on the following:

Boarding
Real checking from Behind
Hits to head emphasis
Interference

Polglaze hit as mentioned, no way a 5:00. Polglaze ejected for nothing.
Penalty shot, penalty shot called for Letorneau hockey stopping too hard to the right - ridiculous
Steman hit in head with blind side hit, officials warrant review, do not even call a 2:00 interference which was a given call.
Steman struck in the head on Friday night, officials huddling after the game to review the no call.

The WCHA has to review the performance level, it has been so bad this year, I am questioning buying the stream again next year as the refs have way too much say in the outcomes.
Inconsistency is the main point, this is not rec hockey, we as fans of the league deserve better and even more important the Div 1 athletes deserve way better.

They can’t call a 2:00 minor on review on that hit if they didn’t initially call it on the ice. It’s got to be 5 or nothing. If they do make the call during play, they start with 2, which cannot be negated. They can then review to see if it warrants 5.

 

[davyd83]

Very valid points. But officials know what they are signing up for and as stated before these boys deserve better at the D1 level.

So where do you find all these people who are so much better and willing and able to do the job? Especially when the fans will sit and complain about the job the supposedly better refs at the next level do?

 

[MTUHuskies]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

So where do you find all these people who are so much better and willing and able to do the job? Especially when the fans will sit and complain about the job the supposedly better refs at the next level do?

Marquette, of course.

Sent from my SM-G960U using Tapatalk

 

[The Rube]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

They can’t call a 2:00 minor on review on that hit if they didn’t initially call it on the ice. It’s got to be 5 or nothing. If they do make the call during play, they start with 2, which cannot be negated. They can then review to see if it warrants 5.

Having talked at length with some of the WCHA refs post-game back in the day...it's really interesting to hear their perspectives on calls. I often still disagreed with their call(s), but I could see their point of view on them. On the flipside, they admitted they could see why the fans were angry.

 

[Huskiefan906]

So where do you find all these people who are so much better and willing and able to do the job? Especially when the fans will sit and complain about the job the supposedly better refs at the next level do?

Well you do not by accepting mediocrity with the same bunch Shepherd and Piotrowski. It is time for their tenure to be revoked.

It is an endless debate, but I hold NCAA hockey very highly as my favorite sport and the leagues have to commit to being better.

They missed the interference, point 1 for our view, but it is still ok because it was not a 5:00. At least they did not boot the BG guy from the game, right?

 

[MavsFan]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

In other words, "My guy is a tough, physical, hard-nosed hockey player. Your guy is a goon who runs the goalie."

How close am I?

That's been my signature for years.

 

[TalonsUpPuckDown]

Re: Fire Greg Shepherd, WCHA officiating the laughing stock of NCAA Divison 1 Hockey

That's been my signature for years.

Actually, that's where I stole it from, hence the quotes. I just couldn't remember which person or else I would have attributed to you.

 

[klbaum1077]

It was not about losing the series, just the continued inconsistency the entire season of WCHA refs on the following:

Boarding
Real checking from Behind
Hits to head emphasis
Interference

Polglaze hit as mentioned, no way a 5:00. Polglaze ejected for nothing.
Penalty shot, penalty shot called for Letorneau hockey stopping too hard to the right - ridiculous
Steman hit in head with blind side hit, officials warrant review, do not even call a 2:00 interference which was a given call.
Steman struck in the head on Friday night, officials huddling after the game to review the no call.

The WCHA has to review the performance level, it has been so bad this year, I am questioning buying the stream again next year as the refs have way too much say in the outcomes.
Inconsistency is the main point, this is not rec hockey, we as fans of the league deserve better and even more important the Div 1 athletes deserve way better.

If no penalty was called before they went to review it then they can only call a 5 minute penalty