East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

[jcarter7669]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

Just general ECAC bashing. HE is the best conference in college hockey. The ECAC has improved and played them very tough the last 4 years. The gap has narrowed. Jcarter is starting the drumbeating this year with idiotic statements like there is a "tremendous" difference.

You guys have a real issue with insecurity, or a lack of ability to read. I said there is a tremendous difference between the leagues overall, playing week in and week out against a slew of top teams is different then having 3-4 teams on the schedule that require 100% effort to come away with a win. The ECAC has some very good teams, Union and Quinny being two of them. But your 8th place team is not on the level of Notre Dame... that was the point. If you all want to take up the crybaby we get no respect stance then so be it, but don't blame that chip on your shoulder on me.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

i thought he was talking how the 7th and 8th place teams in hockey east are better than the 7th and 8th place teams in the ecac. i mean it is pretty crazy that a league can have 7th and 8th place teams make the tourney. one beat bc in a series and one gave lowell a fight. even providence is a tough out. they play a borderline game, on the edge if you will. very physical, tough team to play against. union is obviously great but even quinnipiac doesn't appear to be quite as good as last year. hockey east is deeper but union very well may be better than any team hockey east has to offer.

Careful, that kind of talk gets you labeled an ecac basher.

 

[The Zlax45]

You guys have a real issue with insecurity, or a lack of ability to read. I said there is a tremendous difference between the leagues overall, playing week in and week out against a slew of top teams is different then having 3-4 teams on the schedule that require 100% effort to come away with a win. The ECAC has some very good teams, Union and Quinny being two of them. But your 8th place team is not on the level of Notre Dame... that was the point. If you all want to take up the crybaby we get no respect stance then so be it, but don't blame that chip on your shoulder on me.

And the seventh place team in the ezac doesn't get in the NCAA tourney...

 

[johnk]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

You guys have a real issue with insecurity, or a lack of ability to read. I said there is a tremendous difference between the leagues overall, playing week in and week out against a slew of top teams is different then having 3-4 teams on the schedule that require 100% effort to come away with a win. The ECAC has some very good teams, Union and Quinny being two of them. But your 8th place team is not on the level of Notre Dame... that was the point. If you all want to take up the crybaby we get no respect stance then so be it, but don't blame that chip on your shoulder on me.

Who gives a crap about your 8th place team! HE was 22-20-8 vs the ECAC. Pairwise top 20, HE had 7 and the ECAC had 5. Top 30, HE-8 and ECAC 7. That does not seem like a tremendous difference week in and week out but don't let the facts get in your way.

 

[LTsatch]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

You guys have a real issue with insecurity, or a lack of ability to read. I said there is a tremendous difference between the leagues overall, playing week in and week out against a slew of top teams is different then having 3-4 teams on the schedule that require 100% effort to come away with a win. The ECAC has some very good teams, Union and Quinny being two of them. But your 8th place team is not on the level of Notre Dame... that was the point. If you all want to take up the crybaby we get no respect stance then so be it, but don't blame that chip on your shoulder on me.

It's not insecurity, you are correct that the 7th and 8th place teams in Hockey East had better records than the 7th and 8th place teams in the ECAC. From 1-6, I would give any ECAC team a shot against any hockey East team. I would not call that a "tremendous difference". I also guess that the fact that the 8th place ECAC team went 3-1 against two top eight Hockey East makes your statistical reasoning a little suspect. Both leagues were a slugfest this year, and the ECAC has been catching up to the big brother over the past five years, before that there was not even a conversation. You must also remember that we have an ingrained beotch slap reaction from the attacks from the western EZAC screamers. Should be a great weekend of hockey, and I will be there in person to see it.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

That does not seem like a tremendous difference week in and week out but don't let the facts get in your way.

Average SOS of for HE is 13
Average SOS of for ECAC is 29

Not a tremendous difference? The FACT is that statistically HE plays a much tougher schedule then the ECAC.

The FACT is half of the ECAC teams play SOS that are 30 or above (bottom half of the country), not a single HE team has a SOS above 30.
The FACT is 11 of 12, 92%, ECAC teams play a SOS that is 20 or above, 3 (27%) HE teams play SOS that are 20 or above.
The Fact is 1 (8%) of ECAC teams play a sos in the top 20, while 7 (64%) of HE teams play SOS below 20.
The Fact is no ECAC team plays a SOS that is in the top 10 in the country, while 36% of HE teams do...

Again, I will reiterate that there are good ECAC teams, but no they do not play as challenging of a schedule. There is a big difference.

 

[Kdaddy1968]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

Who gives a crap about your 8th place team! HE was 22-20-8 vs the ECAC. Pairwise top 20, HE had 7 and the ECAC had 5. Top 30, HE-8 and ECAC 7. That does not seem like a tremendous difference week in and week out but don't let the facts get in your way.

Well we could take the top 12 and only games played on Saturdays in Dec .... To all of you this is a stupid argument. As a UVM fan I can tell you I would much rather have played Wisc vs Union (and not a diss to Wisc just a style match up). The ECAC has some great teams that can win it all and have some good mid pack teams (SLU comes to mind). HE also has some great mid pack teams that can do damage.

I just wish they would spread out the conferences a bit how they are placed so that you could see a UC vs Q final or BC vs UML final.

You may now continue with the "Who would win a fight mighty mouse or superman" conversation?

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

From 1-6, I would give any ECAC team a shot against any hockey East team. I would not call that a "tremendous difference".

Yale and Colgate (#5 and #6) were a combined 2-5-2 against HE teams with both wins coming against HE #11 Merrimack. So they were winless against the top 6. I mean I would give them a shot as well, anything can happen it sthe frequency of it happening that's suspect.

 

[johnk]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

Average SOS of for HE is 14
Average SOS of for ECAC is 29

Not a tremendous difference? The FACT is that statistically HE plays a much tougher schedule then the ECAC.

The FACT is half of the ECAC teams play SOS that are 30 or above (bottom half of the country), not a single HE team has a SOS above 30.
The FACT is 11 of 12, 92%, ECAC teams play a SOS that is 20 or above, 3 (30%) HE teams play SOS that are 20 or above.
The Fact is 1 (8%) of ECAC teams play a sos in the top 20, while 7 (70%) of HE teams play SOS below 20.
The Fact is no ECAC team plays a SOS that is in the top 10 in the country, while 40% of HE teams do...

Again, I will reiterate that there are good ECAC teams, but no they do not play as challenging of a schedule. There is a big difference.

You should be a politician. What a dope. 2 of your facts are the same, just reversing the numbers. PWR takes all of you nonsense and rounds it into a ranking system, And amazingly HE could only win 22 out of 50 games against such a mediocre league.

 

[Kdaddy1968]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

Yale and Colgate (#5 and #6) were a combined 2-5-2 against HE teams with both wins coming against HE #11 Merrimack. So they were winless against the top 6. I mean I would give them a shot as well, anything can happen it sthe frequency of it happening that's suspect.

And yet they were 1-0-1 vs UVM...

This is all about match ups and style of play.

You may now continue the argument .

 

[redrocker]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

Average SOS of for HE is 14
Average SOS of for ECAC is 29

Not a tremendous difference? The FACT is that statistically HE plays a much tougher schedule then the ECAC.

The FACT is half of the ECAC teams play SOS that are 30 or above (bottom half of the country), not a single HE team has a SOS above 30.
The FACT is 11 of 12, 92%, ECAC teams play a SOS that is 20 or above, 3 (30%) HE teams play SOS that are 20 or above.
The Fact is 1 (8%) of ECAC teams play a sos in the top 20, while 7 (70%) of HE teams play SOS below 20.
The Fact is no ECAC team plays a SOS that is in the top 10 in the country, while 40% of HE teams do...

Again, I will reiterate that there are good ECAC teams, but no they do not play as challenging of a schedule. There is a big difference.

Aren't these SOS numbers bolstered/weakened by out-of-conference opponents? If your argument is based on overall conference strength, top to bottom, how would these stats be relevant?

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

You may now continue with the "Who would win a fight mighty mouse or superman" conversation?

Well Bennett would definitely kick the snot out of Sneddon...

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

Aren't these SOS numbers bolstered/weakened by out-of-conference opponents? If your argument is based on overall conference strength, top to bottom, how would these stats be relevant?

That wouldn't be my argument. Because it appears to be to much to ask to go back and actually read all the posts, here was the original argument...

" That doesn't mean the best team is from Hockey East but it does mean that Hockey East teams see a much more competitive schedule and are more battle worn."

That's when the "EZAC" posters got out their chips and placed them up on their shoulders turning it into an ECAC v. HE argument.

 

[LTsatch]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

Well Bennett would definitely kick the snot out of Sneddon...

Well, at least you got one thing right about the ECAC!

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

You should be a politician. What a dope. 2 of your facts are the same, just reversing the numbers. PWR takes all of you nonsense and rounds it into a ranking system, And amazingly HE could only win 22 out of 50 games against such a mediocre league.

The PWR and SOS are the same? And you are calling me a dope? mmmmKay

 

[TimU]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

Although an ECAC fan I have seen Vermont play several times this year on NESN. They are a solid and good team. If Union doesn't bring their "A" game they will be out after the first game. I really think Bridgeport is a very tough pairing of 4 teams. Union drawing Vermont in the first round was not a good or easy draw for them. Lot's of easier teams elsewhere.

I second this. I don't buy all the stuff about the ECAC only having two good teams, or the schedule being less of a grind. But UVM is good, and Union had better be at their best or they will lose.

 

[jcarter7669]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

, or the schedule being less of a grind.

Would you care to offer some type of argument or data to qualify this assertion? If you play the same number of games but against weaker teams (as evidenced by the SOS) then how can that not be less of a grind?

I just don't see any data that would suggest that is actually the case. But I'd be happy to see some and reconsider my position.

 

[johnk]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

The PWR and SOS are the same? And you are calling me a dope? mmmmKay

Where did I say that? Go back and read what I said. And while your at it, answer why the superconference only won 22 out of 50 games against such an inferior league.

 

[Bennycheck]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

" Hey boss, I have the statistics. What do you want them to say?" Thank God the games are decided on the ice and not on these boards. I don't care who can do math better. GO 'GATE.

 

[TimU]

Re: East Regional- Union vs Vermont & Quinnipiac vs Providence

Would you care to offer some type of argument or data to qualify this assertion? If you play the same number of games but against weaker teams (as evidenced by the SOS) then how can that not be less of a grind?

I just don't see any data that would suggest that is actually the case. But I'd be happy to see some and reconsider my position.

I say that based on many years of watching games from both leagues. I don't think HE schedules aren't difficult (just playing BC 3 times is hard enough), but the games are just not the same. If I could take every game that SLU plays against Brown, and replace it with a matchup against UNH, I'd do it in a heartbeat. I'll bet a team like Dartmouth would as well. Playing Brown and Cornell and Clarkson is . . . a grind. Even for good teams. Using this year's standings, I honestly don't think it's safe to assume that the 8th-place team in HE would go through a 22-game ECAC schedule and finish ahead of teams like Ylae and Clarkson. They might, and they might not. I don't think the SOS numbers tell the whole story, that's all. And let me repeat what I said before: I've seen this year's UVM team play, and they are good. If they play close to their best game, and Union isn't sharp, UVM will beat them.