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Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

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Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

A certain segment of a certain politicians voting base is now diarrheaing all over twitter. Apparently despite the fact that said politician has .00000000001% of a chance at winning and despite the fact that they didnt vote in high enough numbers to get said politician in position to win they still are pushing the BS narrative (en masse) that said politician is the only true option to beat the Virus in Chief and how people dying is the proof cause...Medicare4All or something.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Oh good that certain segment of a certain politicians fanbase is now getting #CancelBiden trending. Apparently the candidate who cant beat a guy who is a gaffe machine or one of the most hated candidates in modern Democratic Politics is the only person who can beat Trump.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Handyman said:
Oh good that certain segment of a certain politicians fanbase is now getting #CancelBiden trending. Apparently the candidate who cant beat a guy who is a gaffe machine or one of the most hated candidates in modern Democratic Politics is the only person who can beat Trump.
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And you just spread it.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Kepler said:
And you just spread it.
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Yeah to you. You are too old to even understand what it means ;)

See everyone else already knows about it...I want you (and specifically you) to understand that your little rants about how that certain segment of the certain politicians fanbase do exist, exist in greater numbers than you pretend, and are super dangerous. Now that Priceless avoids this thread and trix is MIA you are the only one who needs to be reminded :D
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Hey, Sanders just kicked a ss in the Northern Mariana Islands caucus by a 2-1 ratio, thus netting him a 4 to 2 delegate win over Biden.

I'm not worried as much about Bernie backers not turning out for Biden because they're not even turning out for Bernie himself! Having said that what is more critical than them voting for Biden, voting 3rd party, or sitting out is that they don't vote FOR Chump again like they did last time. By some estimates a couple million Sanders voters chose Trump in the last election. Now we can debate their motivations all day: from butthurt Bernie disciples to people who want to throw a wrench into the system regardless of ideology, or something in between. But, if they now don't vote for the Chumpster this November he's got to find replacement voters somewhere. Unless you're an out and out anarchist why would any non-cult members vote to re-elect at this point?
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Rover said:
Hey, Sanders just kicked a ss in the Northern Mariana Islands caucus by a 2-1 ratio, thus netting him a 4 to 2 delegate win over Biden.

I'm not worried as much about Bernie backers not turning out for Biden because they're not even turning out for Bernie himself! Having said that what is more critical than them voting for Biden, voting 3rd party, or sitting out is that they don't vote FOR Chump again like they did last time. By some estimates a couple million Sanders voters chose Trump in the last election. Now we can debate their motivations all day: from butthurt Bernie disciples to people who want to throw a wrench into the system regardless of ideology, or something in between. But, if they now don't vote for the Chumpster this November he's got to find replacement voters somewhere. Unless you're an out and out anarchist why would any non-cult members vote to re-elect at this point?
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The Bernie supporters I know haven't said they're voting for Chump. Far from it. However, they want to watch the world burn, perpetuating a couple myths along the way:

1. Biden = Trump.
2. The DNC is suppressing voters, not the states.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Rover said:
the usual crap
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My God you are a broken record. I swear anybody with an ounce of real Left in them who heard you go on and on would eventually sit it out just cuz they were sick of your whining.

The Center demonizes the Left for deriding their primary opponents. Too bad they don't look in the mirror.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Oh, lovely, let's rehash this topic for the 287th time again.

Bernie to Trump voters

Of those Bernie voters who supported Trump in the general election, the average age was 52. Those who stuck with Clinton were an average age of 45, and of those who broke for a third party, the average age was 44. Of those that didn’t vote, their average age was 35 — these were the ones that got activated by Bernie, and then dropped back out when he didn't win. It’s worth noting that very few of the primary voters stayed home. People who vote in primaries are highly engaged in politics — they’re not people who come in and out of the electorate.
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The younger voters? Yeah, they took their ball and went home. But there weren't many of them.

The ones who actively put Trump into office? The olds. Seems to be a trend.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Kepler said:
My God you are a broken record. I swear anybody with an ounce of real Left in them who heard you go on and on would eventually sit it out just cuz they were sick of your whining.

The Center demonizes the Left for deriding their primary opponents. Too bad they don't look in the mirror.
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Because its always good in a life or death election to take your cues from total strangers on an internet message board! If you're going to take suggestions from me Kep, I've got a big one for you, but I'd better message you privately as I don't want to get suspended from the board. ;)
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

MissThundercat said:
The Bernie supporters I know haven't said they're voting for Chump. Far from it. However, they want to watch the world burn, perpetuating a couple myths along the way:

1. Biden = Trump.
2. The DNC is suppressing voters, not the states.
Click to expand...

I hear ya. I think Berners follow a self fulfilling prophecy. 1) Say Bernie would have been a better nominee. 2) Vote FOR Trump. 3) Then when he wins say "SEE".

I think the coronavirus outbreak is raising the stakes so high that the Biden=Trump logic doesn't hold even for people like trix and Kep. Sane, competent leadership instead of a govt made up of grifters actually saves lives.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

That guy Luce (from the Financial Times of all places) made a great point on Maher about Sanders having a self-contradictory message -- one I cannot believe I never thought of.

Sanders argued that the system is rigged. Then he asked for support. By why should I support him if it's rigged? His own theory had a built-in self-destruct.

That makes perfect sense to me. One thing guys like Billy Bragg in the English hard Left never say is "it's rigged." They stress organization and concerted action. They have no illusions that the rich will do anything to stop us including breaking their own laws and resorting to violence, but that is never cynical and it never extends to a criticism of democracy itself. Democracy is not part of the system, it's how we free ourselves.

I think we should learn that lesson moving forward.
 
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Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Rover said:
Biden=Trump logic doesn't hold even for people like trix and Kep
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If you think I have anything said anything like Biden=Dump you are a moron.

But you don't, and that makes you a liar.

Your side won and I am whole-heartedly supporting you, you f-ckstick.

Let. It. Go.
 
Kepler said:
That guy Luce (from the Financial Times of all places) made a great point on Maher about Sanders having a self-contradictory message -- one I cannot believe I never thought of.

Sanders argued that the system is rigged. Then he asked for support. By why should I support him if it's rigged? His own theory had a built-in self-destruct.

That makes perfect sense to me. One thing guys like Billy Bragg in the English hard Left never say is "it's rigged." They stress organization and concerted action. They have no illusions that the rich will do anything to stop us including breaking their own laws and resorting to violence, but that is never cynical and it never extends to a criticism of democracy itself. Democracy is not part of the system, it's how we free ourselves.

I think we should learn that lesson moving forward.
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Yeah his point was perfect. Saying the game doesn't matter cause you already lost doesn't inspire it suppresses.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

If anyone is in a camp that says Kepler believes Biden=trump that tells me the left and progressives are also falling into the fake news trap. Unless I missed something Kep has never said the two are the same or that he would not vote for Biden if and now apparently when he is the nominee. It is troubling to me to see that even on a mostly anonymous internet message forum. We decry the republicans all the time for how they casually drop complete and utter falsehoods and repeat them so often that people like FOX News viewers eventually and predictably believe them to be true. trump says a month ago that the coronavirus is no big deal and repeats it for days on end and now even when he changes his tune ever so slightly, his followers are so deep in the belief it is a hoax we are all at risk. Don't repeat those mistakes here. We are all on the same side on this one.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Kep never said that. However, trix has definitely suggested he believes that.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Kepler said:
If you think I have anything said anything like Biden=Dump you are a moron.

But you don't, and that makes you a liar.

Your side won and I am whole-heartedly supporting you, you f-ckstick.

Let. It. Go.
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I voted for Warren, like I said I would and didn't switch last minute like yourself. So, I'm not the one who p issed on your revolution.
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Kepler definitely does not...but he does have a blind spot for those that do ;)
 
Re: Democratic Challengers 2020 - 12: The End of the Beginning

Handyman said:
Yeah his point was perfect. Saying the game doesn't matter cause you already lost doesn't inspire it suppresses.
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I think Luce's point is far stronger and more consequential than just that. Sour grapes is one thing, but Sanders was saying "the game is rigged" even when he was in the lead. He was extending the rational criticism of most of our institutions, which are rigged (capitalism, law enforcement, media) to the only democratic means we have of liberating ourselves. For people who are unable to discern subtle arguments, which is to say 90% of the population, that de-legitimizes the whole electoral project. It was self-defeating.
 
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