Days Since Last Shooting II

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Again... the far left and their hysterics and hyperbole are actually a net detriment to anything ever changing.

You honestly think it matters? No, no it doesn't. The NRA and it's mindless zombies would be creating the hysteria themselves if it wasn't fed for them.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

You honestly think it matters? No, no it doesn't. The NRA and it's mindless zombies would be creating the hysteria themselves if it wasn't fed for them.

It doesn't matter. Both should be ignored.

Unfortunately, the right's legion of zombies is more numerous than ours.


Just ticks me off when I see fellow liberals - the far left ones - bemoaning the far right when they are doing the exact same things.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

It doesn't matter. Both should be ignored.

Unfortunately, the right's legion of zombies is more numerous than ours.


Just ticks me off when I see fellow liberals - the far left ones - bemoaning the far right when they are doing the exact same things.

Yes, well, all we can do is NOT follow their lead and vote. The extremes will always get press.

 

[Gurtholfin]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Why is it the right is so focused on what an individual says....

Couldn't tell you.

 

[geezer]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Why is it the right is so focused on what an individual says...and uses it to ignore dealing with the issue. All the right does is try unsuccessfully to refute facts...and ultimately walk away when they can't.

I have never seen gun proponents offer any substantial evidence/facts in support of lax gun controls.

You might be asking different questions, the freedom to bear arms is not quantifiable or falsifiable in any way, so what "substantial evidence/facts" could possibly support it? The fact that the constitution exists? That's already a given, and all the "substance" you could ask for.
The issue is pretty simple: getting shot is a bad thing, and having your freedom restricted is a bad thing. Complete elimination of one or the other is untenable. As a society we need to abide by a compromise position.
Starting from there, I can state my opinion: With the advent of mass murder technology, individual freedoms have been broadened to a point that increases my risk of getting shot above my comfort level. I would like to see law-based and punitive restrictions on the sale of certain weapons in order to reduce that risk (while admittedly curtailing my freedom along with everyone else's). The details can be debated.
And yes, anyone caught carrying a gun in a city/town/populated area should be publicly flogged and held in stocks in the town square for a fortnight. There's no good risk/reward there.

 

[jerphisch]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

The bolded was stated. You added the rest.

And yes, target practice is fun just like any other pursuit that involves skill.

Trap/skeet is essentially practice for duck hunting - which is also fun, or so I'm told.

You know that there is shooting in the Olympics, right?


Again... the far left and their hysterics and hyperbole are actually a net detriment to anything ever changing.

The bolded was stated here since the shooting in Vegas, the rest was stated prior to it. I made none of it up.
Yes I'm aware there is shooting in the Olympics, and my response would be so what? I've been consistent in my thinking that guns are stupid and serve no useful purpose for 99% of people in today's society, this isn't something new since Vegas. There is simply no need for them for most people. For those who do have a true NEED, come up with a strict regulation system that permits them.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

And in fact the statistical regression showed declines in the kinds of violence it was supposed to. She spent most of the study trying to refute the results - and is now a gun control opponent. Not shocking. In the end the world is full of ivory tower researchers, she probably should have actually gone there and studied it first hand.

40% of Australians are happy with laws as they are. Just 6% want a return to weaker gun control...with 45% wanting even stronger gun controls than the massively restrictive controls they have now. https://newmatilda.com/2015/07/21/whos-right-nra-or-85-cent-australians/

Gun control made Australian society better.

Half of all statistical studies performed are spent trying to refute the results of prior studies. And there weren't any studies to refute. She discussed how mass shootings were already a rare occurrence in many of these nations and that after their single events that initiated the stricter gun laws and buy-back programs, that it's nearly impossible to tell if the government's response had any effect at all on mass murder rates.

You're reading into her article what you want to see in it.

In parts of Great Britain, there isn’t strong evidence the ban and buyback saved lives. After the new gun law was implemented in 1996, the number of crimes involving guns in England and Wales kept rising through the 1990s, peaking in 2003 and 2004 before subsiding. The post-2004 drop is hard to credit to the buyback and possibly occurred because of an increase in the number of police officers. It’s possible that any effect of the ban, positive or negative, was swamped by other factors affecting gun violence.

In Australia, homicides declined after the ban and buyback, but homicides had already been falling, according to a 2003 analysis by criminologists Peter Reuter and Jenny Mouzos. The share of robberies and suicides committed with a gun declined, but the researchers found that the overall data was “consistent with a story of substitution” — meaning people used other weapons for homicide and suicide.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Half of all statistical studies performed are spent trying to refute the results of prior studies. And there weren't any studies to refute. She discussed how mass shootings were already a rare occurrence in many of these nations and that after their single events that initiated the stricter gun laws and buy-back programs, that it's nearly impossible to tell if the government's response had any effect at all on mass murder rates.

You're reading into her article what you want to see in it.

The very tiring part of conclusions like yours is that the end result is that we should do nothing.

Nothing at all.

Seems like the best thing we can do is to just numb ourselves from future mass killings.

The reality is that the SPECIFIC amount of reduction due to guns being reduced is hard to be specific about, since it's also part of a larger reduction due to other factors. There's zero logic in the idea that getting rid of guns will have no impact on gun violence. One can say that it will take a long time to see real results as illegal guns will take time to get out of the public.

But to have any claim that reducing gun availability won't have an effect on gun violence is stupid. And THAT is the conclusion you are trying to make. And that conclusion just suggests that we should do nothing to reduce gun violence, since nothing is the same as doing something.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

The very tiring part of conclusions like yours is that the end result is that we should do nothing.

Nothing at all.

Where did I say that? You won't find a single post of me saying that doing nothing at all is the answer. Thank you very much for putting words in my mouth and reading my mind, oh Great Carnac.

We have a problem with our "cowboy" mentality in this country, our fascination with weapons and warring tendencies. Something is holding us back from moving beyond these barbaric aspects of life, and we need to figure out what those things are.

In the meantime, we can reduce the severity of mass murders with a few changes to gun laws. That's not something I'd dispute. The question becomes exactly what our course of action should be. Extreme answers won't cut it because they will fail before they even get started in D.C.. Incrementalism is the approach needed, something that might help lead us by the nose away from our barbarism, even if ever so slowly.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Where did I say that? You won't find a single post of me saying that doing nothing at all is the answer. Thank you very much for putting words in my mouth and reading my mind, oh Great Carnac.

We have a problem with our "cowboy" mentality in this country, our fascination with weapons and warring tendencies. Something is holding us back from moving beyond these barbaric aspects of life, and we need to figure out what those things are.

In the meantime, we can reduce the severity of mass murders with a few changes to gun laws. That's not something I'd dispute. The question becomes exactly what our course of action should be. Extreme answers won't cut it because they will fail before they even get started in D.C.. Incrementalism is the approach needed, something that might help lead us by the nose away from our barbarism, even if ever so slowly.

We can start by not raising men who do things like this on social media.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/KatyTurNBC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KatyTurNBC</a> What's with showing the cleavage? Hard to focus on whatever it is you are saying ...</p>— kevin doral (@kevindoral) <a href="https://twitter.com/kevindoral/status/915645949132918784?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 4, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

We can start by not raising men who do things like this on social media.

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr"><a href="https://twitter.com/KatyTurNBC?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">@KatyTurNBC</a> What's with showing the cleavage? Hard to focus on whatever it is you are saying ...</p>— kevin doral (@kevindoral) <a href="https://twitter.com/kevindoral/status/915645949132918784?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw">October 4, 2017</a></blockquote>
<script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>

Because making a childish joke on the internet ≈ future mass murderer?

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Because making a childish joke on the internet ≈ future mass murderer?

You can draw a line between the two. Yes. I notice you don't see many women out there with AK-47's and Bump Stocks.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

You can draw a line between the two. Yes. I notice you don't see many women out there with AK-47's and Bump Stocks.

You don't go out into rural MN very much, do you? They may not have the AK-47, but there are plenty of women who avidly shoot. For whatever reason (testosterone), women don't seem to perform mass murders like men do, though they have happened. Lizzy Borden.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

You don't go out into rural MN very much, do you? They may not have the AK-47, but there are plenty of women who avidly shoot. For whatever reason (testosterone), women don't seem to perform mass murders like men do, though they have happened. Lizzy Borden.

I'm talking about the mass murders. And I'm talking about the pervasive attitude towards women that Americans seem to have, which is unique in the Western Civilized World.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

I'm talking about the mass murders. And I'm talking about the pervasive attitude towards women that Americans seem to have, which is unique in the Western Civilized World.

Go watch a Japanese anime show sometime. Yeah, it's only in western culture.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Go watch a Japanese anime show sometime. Yeah, it's only in western culture.

Read it again. I said America was unique inside of Western Culture. I know other cultures have Misogyny. Reading comprehension for the win. Being better than Saudi Arabia is nothing to be proud of.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Where did I say that? You won't find a single post of me saying that doing nothing at all is the answer. Thank you very much for putting words in my mouth and reading my mind, oh Great Carnac.

We have a problem with our "cowboy" mentality in this country, our fascination with weapons and warring tendencies. Something is holding us back from moving beyond these barbaric aspects of life, and we need to figure out what those things are.

In the meantime, we can reduce the severity of mass murders with a few changes to gun laws. That's not something I'd dispute. The question becomes exactly what our course of action should be. Extreme answers won't cut it because they will fail before they even get started in D.C.. Incrementalism is the approach needed, something that might help lead us by the nose away from our barbarism, even if ever so slowly.

The outcomes of that study are definitely questionable when the surface data points to the logical conclusion that Australians have reached - that their society is better with limited access to guns.

The broader point is that the preponderance of facts on the table address the dangers of lax gun laws. There are specific actions that other countries have taken with both evidence and the belief they are successful, there are US states with lax gun laws that have the highest rates of gun deaths, there are police recommendations that guns not be used when confronting someone armed, there is the choice of guns as the best weapon for mass murder, and a host of other facts. Yet there are posters...and yes, you are among them...that attempt to confuse the issue by sowing doubt. Its no wonder that you get a negative reaction.

 

[burd]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

I'm talking about the mass murders. And I'm talking about the pervasive attitude towards women that Americans seem to have, which is unique in the Western Civilized World.

Well, Japan is west of Murica, isn't it?

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

To those that do wish to donate: https://www.gofundme.com/dr2ks2-las-vegas-victims-fund

Also, a clear head about what's going on: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QuaXRrf8v2A

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Where did I say that? You won't find a single post of me saying that doing nothing at all is the answer. Thank you very much for putting words in my mouth and reading my mind, oh Great Carnac.

We have a problem with our "cowboy" mentality in this country, our fascination with weapons and warring tendencies. Something is holding us back from moving beyond these barbaric aspects of life, and we need to figure out what those things are.

In the meantime, we can reduce the severity of mass murders with a few changes to gun laws. That's not something I'd dispute. The question becomes exactly what our course of action should be. Extreme answers won't cut it because they will fail before they even get started in D.C.. Incrementalism is the approach needed, something that might help lead us by the nose away from our barbarism, even if ever so slowly.

I didn't say that you posted that, what I DID say was that is the natural conclusion that can be come to based on your points. That exact thing was said by a gun group leader in Nevada during NPR this afternoon. He even claimed that 59 people would have died and 500 would be injured even had he not had access to those guns. Nothing can be done to reduce the effects of evil people.

Your whole point is that because of other circumstances, it does not appear that there is a change in violent crime due to gun laws. Otherwise, there would be no reason to suggest that the conclusions are lost in other factors. One can also say, based on the data, that the gun laws doubled it's effect, but the final number does not reflect that due to other reasons.

It's tiring to read people suggest that studies show no change due to gun laws. The reality is that you can't lead to a SPECIFIC reduction due to guns.

Whenever anyone suggests that gun laws have a very small or no effect, the whole goal is to do nothing. Change nothing.

If that's not the conclusion you want to make, then don't suggest that the studies are so flawed that one can say that the laws did nothing.

We CAN do something. If people would only pull their heads out of gun makers rear ends.