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Days Since Last Shooting II

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Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

I suspect you're more in favor of the Constitution. If it's in there support it. If it's not don't.

For most of U.S. history the second amendment was interpreted as granting the states the right to organize and arm a militia. The individual right to bear arms is a fairly modern interpretation put forth and popularized by the NRA.

In 1939 the Supreme Court ruled that the possession of a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" long had nothing to do with the "preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia" and that the second amendment did not guarantee "the right to keep and bear such an instrument". Under a modern "individual right" interpretation, the militia clause is ignored and it seems that not allowing a shotgun due to barrel length would be "infringing" someone's right to bear arms. In fact, the Supreme Court did not rule the second amendment guarantees an individual's right to own a gun until 2008.

After his retirement Nixon appointee Warren Burger said that the second amendment "has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud--I repeat the word 'fraud'--on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime"

If you follow the NRA's push to it's logical conclusion, that the second amendment guarantees an individual the right to own a gun and that any attempt to restrict or regulate that is unconstitutional, then background checks become pointless -- because everyone has a constitutional right to own a gun. And there is no constitutional basis for prohibiting certain types of guns. Fully automatic=legal. No limits on magazine sizes.
 
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Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

By the time all the Constitutional challenges are done and new laws actually enacted, I'm betting the same level of effort legislative and judicial effort would be expended. You know it; I know it.

LOL

Heller, Heller, Heller. Scalia did it himself.
 
Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

For most of U.S. history the second amendment was interpreted as granting the states the right to organize and arm a militia. The individual right to bear arms is a fairly modern interpretation put forth and popularized by the NRA.

In 1939 the Supreme Court ruled that the possession of a shotgun with a barrel less than 18" long had nothing to do with the "preservation or efficiency of a well regulated militia" and that the second amendment did not guarantee "the right to keep and bear such an instrument". Under a modern "individual right" interpretation, the militia clause is ignored and it seems that not allowing a shotgun due to barrel length would be "infringing" someone's right to bear arms.

After his retirement Nixon appointee Warren Burger said that the second amendment "has been the subject of one of the greatest pieces of fraud--I repeat the word 'fraud'--on the American public by special interest groups that I have ever seen in my lifetime"

Heller all but removed the words "well regulated militia" from the Second. And that came out of the Supremes also.

There's only one possible way for full clarity on this: follow the process and rescind the Second.
 
Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

Heller all but removed the words "well regulated militia" from the Second. And that came out of the Supremes also.

thanks to the NRA’s long crusade to bring its interpretation of the Constitution into the mainstream

at the time the amendment was written "bear arms" was used almost exclusively to refer to military activities
 
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Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

thanks to the NRA’s long crusade to bring its interpretation of the Constitution into the mainstream

The Court doesn't always rule based on "mainstream values", does it? I'm pretty sure I can find a ruling or two ...
 
Enacting your changes or making a single change will take the same amount of legislative time and effort.
One has a greater air of permanency and is undeniably Constitutional (unlike potential over-fiddling on the Heller knobs).

No it wouldn't. Constitutional Amendments are inherently tougher to pass and take significantly more time and effort. There's a reason only 27 of them have ever been ratified.
 
Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

The Court doesn't always rule based on "mainstream values", does it? I'm pretty sure I can find a ruling or two ...

It is supposed to take original intent into consideration, though. That was what Scalia was always fapping off to.

Except when he wasn't.

Purely a coincidence, though. It can't have been that Originalism was just a bullsh-t pretext to push a radical partisan agenda.
 
Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

The Court doesn't always rule based on "mainstream values", does it? I'm pretty sure I can find a ruling or two ...

there was a point in time when it woudln't even have occurred to a SC justice that the 2nd amendment was granting the right of an individual to own guns regardless of their participation in a state militia
 
Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

And don't say Chicago. Cause Chicago can be traced to Indiana.

Just keep feeding the narrative.

21% come from Indiana. 40% from Illinois. Every other state in the top 10 for Chicago is 5% or below (MS, TX, GA, WI, TN, LA, off the top of my head). For specific gun stores 3 of the top 10 are in IN (Gary, Hammond, and Griffith?...all in the NW corner of the state. I believe they were #'s 2, 3, and 7, respectively). The rest were stores in IL. It's not enough to just say lax gun laws in Indiana is the cause. You also can't just waltz into a store here and buy any gun you want. Handguns can only be sold to Indiana residents. There is a much larger trafficking issue at play in Chicago.

Source: Most recent Gun Trace Report from the City of Chicago (Hope the link works. Been having trouble with it today and just going off what I remember when I read it a week or so ago)

We obviously can't do nothing. Reinstating the social security restriction Obama enacted should be common sense. I would also say we should require someone with a federal firearms dealer license involved in all gun sales. Aggressive prosecution of illegal gun traffickers would be a start too.
 
Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

And that's why I say there's only one way out of this "Groundhog Day."

Rescind the Second. Follow the process; rescind the Second.

LOL.... great of you to take it to such an extreme.

There's a reasonable limit that one can place using "Well Regulate Militia" but since you don't want to listen to that reason, you pretend that we want to take out the 2nd Amendment.

All it took were some good placed restrictions that have been legal in the past- similar to the very, very legal assault weapons ban, and the mechanism that makes a murder a mass murder goes away. And you are not willing to accept that. You just go nuclear.

Please, stop insulting the victims as if you really care. You don't. You don't want anything realistically to happen. Which means you are ok with the next one happening just like the last one.
 
Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

You know what I find ironic? Schumer yells at Trump about politicizing the truck massacre in NYC, yet what do his people do within 24 hours of shots being fired... :rolleyes:
 
Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

I suspect you're more in favor of the Constitution. If it's in there support it. If it's not don't.

There are many of us who support the Constitution.

But per the founding fathers, the need for the second amendment is tied to 'a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State'. Not the need for everyone to have a gun in case they want to shoot someone else.
 
Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

There are many of us who support the Constitution.

But per the founding fathers, the need for the second amendment is tied to 'a well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State'. Not the need for everyone to have a gun in case they want to shoot someone else.

The security of a free state means everyone defends the state, especially if it is to be of the people, by the people, for the people. If you disarm them, they are defenseless from any tyrannical dictator to completely take over their lives, which has happened in every single socialist regime in history that is trying to be replicated by a number of posters on here.
 
Re: Days Since Last Shooting II

The security of a free state means everyone defends the state, especially if it is to be of the people, by the people, for the people. If you disarm them, they are defenseless from any tyrannical dictator to completely take over their lives, which has happened in every single socialist regime in history that is trying to be replicated by a number of posters on here.

Nobody's disarming anybody. Just keep the guns in your own home until you want to overthrow the government.
 
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