Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

[DisplacedCornellian]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

So you want everyone to be defenceless when a shooter comes around? This is exactly what caused this!

Yes, the solution to gun violence is CLEARLY more guns. That's like saying the solution to obesity is more donuts. *smh*

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

As was said below, the first step is actually closing loopholes and enforcing existing laws. While stricter gun control across the board would in theory be better since it would start to drain the gun swamp, in practice it would just push gun ownership into the criminal sector where drugs exist now, and as we've all seen that leads nowhere good.

There's no reason to impede legal gun ownership for hunting and personal protection. At the same time, there's no reason why military grade assault rifles are legal for the gen pop. We'll get there eventually -- the population becomes more urban every day and that will eventually lead to a compromise. But in the meantime the NRA still has Congress by the throat and every inch of the way towards rationality will be barred by the kind of hysterical fear-mongering and paranoia you see in Flag's posts.

I agree 100% regarding existing laws. But I think the "military grade assault rifle" is a bit of a misnomer.

The AK rifles these people likely used, and that you can buy in any gun shop, are exactly the same as your standard deer rifle hunters take into the field, except for the appearance. In fact, I've even seen some guys use them as deer rifles.

They fire one bullet per trigger pull. Unless they are illegally modified, or illegally manufactured, there is no "automatic" feature to them that allows Rambo style spewing of bullets.

People will argue that the magazine on such a gun holds more rounds that a typical rifle, but you can buy any size magazine you want for any gun, and nothing prohibits you from carrying multiple clips filled with ammo.

I've always wondered about the psychology of the appearance of the standard AK style semi-automatic rifle. Whether the machine gun / military like appearance of it draws shooters to these guns, but I would want to see studies that suggest as much and furthermore suggest that banning any gun that appears like that will actually reduce the number of these incidents.

 

[goldy_331]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Yes, the solution to gun violence is CLEARLY more guns. That's like saying the solution to obesity is more donuts. *smh*

http://www.pewresearch.org/fact-tan...y-after-decline-in-90s-suicide-rate-edges-up/

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

The AK rifles these people likely used, and that you can buy in any gun shop, are exactly the same as your standard deer rifle hunters take into the field, except for the appearance. In fact, I've even seen some guys use them as deer rifles.

They fire one bullet per trigger pull. Unless they are illegally modified, or illegally manufactured, there is no "automatic" feature to them that allows Rambo style spewing of bullets.

Do people really hunt deer with semi-auto guns?

When I hunted, my 270 was bolt action. Granted, there was a magazine that could hold 5 rounds, but I still had to run the action myself.

Given how most people are capable of shooting, a semi-auto for hunting would be totally useless- if you missed the first shot, you certainly would miss the second one. While they may be used, I can't fathom them being the standard deer rifle.

 

[ScoobyDoo]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Do people really hunt deer with semi-auto guns?

When I hunted, my 270 was bolt action. Granted, there was a magazine that could hold 5 rounds, but I still had to run the action myself.

Given how most people are capable of shooting, a semi-auto for hunting would be totally useless- if you missed the first shot, you certainly would miss the second one. While they may be used, I can't fathom them being the standard deer rifle.

For Deer probably unnecessary. For birds? Yeah, all the time.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

So you want everyone to be defenceless when a shooter comes around? This is exactly what caused this!

Do you honestly think someone who has a gun would have put an end to it? And because nobody was around that had a gun, it was the reason it happened??

Given the number of trained police with actual assault rifles, body armor, and helmets it took to take TWO people out- I can't see one person with a pistol on their hip having any impact on this situation.

Answering violence with more violence isn't an answer- it just kills more people.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

For Deer probably unnecessary. For birds? Yeah, all the time.

But the Hovey thinks that the AK operates just like a standard DEER rifle. Not a shotgun.

Even with a semi-auto shotgun, it is actually used effectively when shot as fast as your finger moves? Or, more realistically, without pumping the action, the shooter takes a few seconds to re-aim more effectively at a moving target?

 

[joecct]

Do you honestly think someone who has a gun would have put an end to it? And because nobody was around that had a gun, it was the reason it happened??

Given the number of trained police with actual assault rifles, body armor, and helmets it took to take TWO people out- I can't see one person with a pistol on their hip having any impact on this situation.

Answering violence with more violence isn't an answer- it just kills more people.

Would your answer be different if it was your life on the line?

 

[goldy_331]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

But the Hovey thinks that the AK operates just like a standard DEER rifle. Not a shotgun.

Even with a semi-auto shotgun, it is actually used effectively when shot as fast as your finger moves? Or, more realistically, without pumping the action, the shooter takes a few seconds to re-aim more effectively at a moving target?

The AK style rifle is used more often for multiple shots in varmint hunting than in deer hunting. Think coyotes and prairie dogs.

An autoloading shotgun is used often for quick retargeting of a second bird or second shot at the same bird when hunting upland game birds and waterfowl. Also in target shooting in skeet and sporting clays.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Trust me. A semi auto shotgun is no less effective than a SA rifle immediately being shot. My shotgun has so little recoil that it's fairly easy to shoot true doubles without having to think too hard about aiming. I've even shot shotguns that have zero recoil. It was weird the first time I shot it. I was left completely off balance because I was expecting a kick. And that was an over under without a gas system.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Exactly. The only difference between a shotgun and rifle is distance and spread. A shotgun is more effective within 30-40 yard but has a much wider spread. A rifle is better than a shotgun at distance, but it's a single projectile.

 

[unofan]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Would your answer be different if it was your life on the line?

What's your answer?

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Do people really hunt deer with semi-auto guns?

When I hunted, my 270 was bolt action. Granted, there was a magazine that could hold 5 rounds, but I still had to run the action myself.

Given how most people are capable of shooting, a semi-auto for hunting would be totally useless- if you missed the first shot, you certainly would miss the second one. While they may be used, I can't fathom them being the standard deer rifle.

The Browning automatic rifle is one of the most popular hunting weapons of all time. http://www.browning.com/products/catalog/family.asp?webflag_=002B

That said, most good hunters don't use auto loading rifles. The problem with the semi-automatic rifle is they are unreliable, and generally thought to be not as accurate as a bolt action weapon.

I own a BAR, .30-06 caliber, and have hunted deer and bear with it. It has the benefit of permitting you to keep the gun to your shoulder and your sight on the target without working the lever or bolt action, but I agree that it doesn't necessarily make you any more likely to hit your target.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Trust me. A semi auto shotgun is no less effective than a SA rifle immediately being shot. My shotgun has so little recoil that it's fairly easy to shoot true doubles without having to think too hard about aiming. I've even shot shotguns that have zero recoil. It was weird the first time I shot it. I was left completely off balance because I was expecting a kick. And that was an over under without a gas system.

No, I can't trust you on that what so ever. I've done a lot of shooting in my time, too- with a recoil-less 22, and if you pull that trigger as fast as you can, one would to be very skilled to not move.

There's more to repeated firing a gun than recoil.

 

[JF_Gophers]

What's your answer?

Most people's natural reaction when they feel in danger is to flee, hide, or cooperate. None of those require having a gun. So I'd bet he does feel the same.

Eta. I find it interesting that gun advocates think so highly of themselves when placing them in these situations. They are always the calm, cool, collected, crack shot hero.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

But the Hovey thinks that the AK operates just like a standard DEER rifle. Not a shotgun.

Even with a semi-auto shotgun, it is actually used effectively when shot as fast as your finger moves? Or, more realistically, without pumping the action, the shooter takes a few seconds to re-aim more effectively at a moving target?

The semi-auto shotgun operates the exact same way as a semi-auto rifle. You pull the trigger. The recoil from the shot fired causes the shell to be ejected and a new one chambered without any manual lever or bolt action.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

Would your answer be different if it was your life on the line?

In fantasy land, yea, I would nail both shooters between the eyes even when them spraying bullets at me.

Reality tells me that it's far, far, far more likely that I will run and hide at the first instance of a gunshot.

That's the disconnect I see with the people advocating arming the public- a REAL human reaction. The number of people in the world who would be capable of effectively using a piston when being fired upon in tiny, and while most people pretend they are in that minority, I doubt any of us are.

 

[joecct]

What's your answer?

Shoot the SOB who is trying to shoot me. I refuse to go down cowering in a corner.

That's the theory. It has yet to be tested.

 

[alfablue]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

The semi-auto shotgun operates the exact same way as a semi-auto rifle. You pull the trigger. The recoil from the shot fired causes the shell to be ejected and a new one chambered without any manual lever or bolt action.

Thank you for the lesson. But I do know that.

My point is what you answered before- using it by pulling the trigger as fast as possible doesn't make it more effective.

BTW, I'm not sure about your point keeping the gun on your shoulder and not having to move to run the action. Unless I'm firing at a deaf deer, they will move if you miss. If you are firing at a fast moving deer, you missed something in the hunter course. So reloading the gun from a miss is kind of irrelevant.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Days Since Last Mass Shooting: 0

In fantasy land, yea, I would nail both shooters between the eyes even when them spraying bullets at me.

Reality tells me that it's far, far, far more likely that I will run and hide at the first instance of a gunshot.

That's the disconnect I see with the people advocating arming the public- a REAL human reaction. The number of people in the world who would be capable of effectively using a piston when being fired upon in tiny, and while most people pretend they are in that minority, I doubt any of us are.

I have seen ordinary people with long, extensive histories of handling weapons, miss a shot at a deer at a range so close it would shock most people. The excitement, adrenaline, nerves and rush to shoot (known collectively among hunters as "buck fever") is insurmountable. Very, very few people are immune, even the most experienced of hunters.

I can't imagine what it would be like if some clown in assault gear shows up and starts shooting up the room. I give the average person no better than one chance out of a hundred of even coming close to hitting the assailant in a situation like that.