D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

[CrazyDave]

Since the other thread reached its post maximum...

 

[5 4 Fighting]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

Trillium....

All good stuff...but I live in the real world.

USA Hockey will undoubtebly be involved by now...

 

[Thunderbird77]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

Oh… is that why you didn’t do your undergrad at Harvard?

Why do you feel the need to get personal??? Do you think that throwing shots at my own personal academic background will somehow relate to the content of my post? What if I told you that I was not only a Division 1 Scholarship Athlete, but graduated HS with a 3.9 and an ACT 0f 31???

I think it’s fair to say it’s much more rare to find a kid who is a great hockey player along with being a great student than to find a kid who is one or the other. I’ve been told a hundred times on this forum that Ivies can’t be competitive because it’s just too hard to find that many talented players with high enough marks, so although I think that’s a generally accepted notion.

Based on my daughter's experience and the girls she has played with that are going D1, I would have to disagree with the generally accepted notion. Almost all of her friends that will play Division 1 hockey next year are both great hockey players and good students. Several have or are going to play Ivy. Our experience is that what makes it difficult for the Ivy League is to find great players with good grades and the MEANS to attend the school. The Ivy's have to compete against schools that can provide athletic scholarships. When you do the financial analysis -- paying $40K to $50K a year versus getting a scholarship, it is not a simple decision. The ROI does not benefit the Ivy League school.

 

[96IllinoisDad]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

Wow, so much discussion about a young lady who is deferring college for a year to get into Harvard.

I know of a number of girls who have taken a year off school altogether to improve their hockey credentials to try and get a DI spot or a "better" DI hockey school or scholarship. I don't see nearly as much discussion about that.

The fact is she apparently wants to go to Harvard. Her academic skills should improve, and more importantly she will be better prepared academically coming from Berkshire rather than her public high school. Her hockey skills should not be hurt as well (she is on USA u22 and my guess is she will be working out with Berkshire Prep Team like she did with Mission Boys teams).

I wish her the best of luck to her for pursuing HER goals - not anyone elses.

 

[hcky85]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

"I didn't say anything about low salaries. Suppose somebody wants a career in aviation. There are a limited number of schools that offer a 4-year degree; I doubt that Harvard does. North Dakota and St. Cloud State do. I've been involved in hiring decisions for a number of technology jobs, and demonstrated proficiency with relevant skills matters more than the name on the degree. You won't go wrong with a Harvard degree, but it isn't always going to be the #1 choice. No institution can be all things to all people."
-ARM

I never said a Harvard degree is the best choice for everyone, you just chose to read it that way. I could have listed the top 10 colleges for every major but I thought it was a little easier to drop ten colleges that came to mind as generally being ranked highly instead. So we’re saying the same thing.

My point was to correct thunderbolt77’s perception that a college decision being compromised by grades is some punishment that only meatheads who neglect to do their schoolwork have to deal with. When the reality is that everyone applying to college has to deal with that same compromise (so for you, every kid who wants to pursue a career in aviation doesn’t get into North Dakota).

It’s a pretty false assumption to think you can just go anywhere you want from doing your work and that a top-recruit should just automatically have the grades to get into Harvard. My intent was only to correct the person trying to make it sound like the only reason why this player won’t be in college this year is that the kid didn’t do her homework as if the only academic requirement to getting into Harvard is simply having completed school assignments.

So to wrap it up, if thunderbolt wanted to make an example out of a player neglecting academics, this was a pretty brutal player to choose in order to do so.

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

To try to put an end to the bashing of the player being discussed (somebody here seems to think she wasn't academically qualified to get into Harvard, which unless you were in the admissions department when the application was processed you couldn't possibly prove), let's look at a few factors that can affect an athlete's ability to get admitted to any Ivy League school:

1) All Ivy League schools have an AI (score based upon test scores and GPA/Class Rank) average number that they must meet across all athletes in all sport.

2) Schools can (and do) set different AI average targets for different teams.

3) Coaches are given only so many "low band" admits and if they cannot attract enough "high band" recruits, they can't even use some of those "low band" admits.

4) Players in the "low band" AI group still meet all of the admissions requirements for the school and are considered fully capable of completing a 4-year degree at the school (you cannot set your "low band" so low that they are not going to be academically competitive).

That being said, there are some here who are insinuating that she didn't have the grades/test scores to get into her choice Ivy (mny are assuming Harvard here although other people mentioned Cornell).

We cannot say this without knowing these data.

In fact, we cannot even say the she would have been a "low band" admit, as we do not know the team's AI target nor the AI numbers of the other players on the team (perhaps were other "low band" admits who got earlier admissions committments raising the requirement for later applicants).

We can't even know if the Women's hockey team has any "low band" admits (they don't publish this).

In the end, what I'm saying here is that those who are criticizing her for spending too much time on hockey and not enough on academics don't have any relevant facts (either about her grades and test scores or the women's hockey team's AI requirements) and are doing a great disservice to her and should knock it off.

 

[hcky85]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

Why do you feel the need to get personal??? Do you think that throwing shots at my own personal academic background will somehow relate to the content of my post?

Says the guy who's feels the need to publicly critique the 18-year old player who decided to do an extra year of school to get into Harvard?

What if I told you that I was not only a Division 1 Scholarship Athlete, but graduated HS with a 3.9 and an ACT 0f 31???

Honestly, I would have to say… I still think you seem like a huge dingleberry for ever actually making the statement “For my money, Harvard is a better pay off for grad school.”

Let it be known, I’ve never resorted to name calling on this forum before but I don’t know how else to answer your question.

 

[live4hockey]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

To try to put an end to the bashing of the player being discussed (somebody here seems to think she wasn't academically qualified to get into Harvard, which unless you were in the admissions department when the application was processed you couldn't possibly prove), let's look at a few factors that can affect an athlete's ability to get admitted to any Ivy League school:

1) All Ivy League schools have an AI (score based upon test scores and GPA/Class Rank) average number that they must meet across all athletes in all sport.

2) Schools can (and do) set different AI average targets for different teams.

3) Coaches are given only so many "low band" admits and if they cannot attract enough "high band" recruits, they can't even use some of those "low band" admits.

4) Players in the "low band" AI group still meet all of the admissions requirements for the school and are considered fully capable of completing a 4-year degree at the school (you cannot set your "low band" so low that they are not going to be academically competitive).

That being said, there are some here who are insinuating that she didn't have the grades/test scores to get into her choice Ivy (mny are assuming Harvard here although other people mentioned Cornell).

We cannot say this without knowing these data.

In fact, we cannot even say the she would have been a "low band" admit, as we do not know the team's AI target nor the AI numbers of the other players on the team (perhaps were other "low band" admits who got earlier admissions committments raising the requirement for later applicants).

We can't even know if the Women's hockey team has any "low band" admits (they don't publish this).

In the end, what I'm saying here is that those who are criticizing her for spending too much time on hockey and not enough on academics don't have any relevant facts (either about her grades and test scores or the women's hockey team's AI requirements) and are doing a great disservice to her and should knock it off.

While what you say above is true.....I have also been told that the Ivy's have an agreed upon AI that is the MINIMUM for ANY student, any sport. Obviously it is lower than the average scores for regular students. But, regardless, if a student can't meet this minimum academic index, then they cannot be admitted to ANY Ivy. IN this case, if a couple of schools were computing the AI, they would have known what it was. Therefore, one school can't just slide someone in as a low band, even if they have high band players, if they don't meet the minimum. This is what make the Ivy's the IVY LEAGUE....and that isn't going to change, even for superstar athletes. In the larger sports it's the main reason why they will never compete for a national championship AND for example, why it was such a big deal that Cornell made it to the Sweet 16.

 

[Hockey it's only a Game]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

Small Issue on trying to go to Harvard? You have to do the School
work and graduate. Why would one year make a difference academically?
Either you Ivy smart or your not, Plus playing u22 and Prep Club ?
She passed on many top Colleges that would have been a great fit
for her as well as premier College Hockey Programs.

 

[UCONN FAN]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

Small Issue on trying to go to Harvard? You have to do the School
work and graduate. Why would one year make a difference academically?
Either you Ivy smart or your not, Plus playing u22 and Prep Club ?
She passed on many top Colleges that would have been a great fit
for her as well as premier College Hockey Programs.

I agree some what with the "Ivy smart or not" comment, but that just tells me that she is very close to getting in or she wouldn't be trying. The Ivy schools know this as well. If a recruit is not close the coaches will tell a recruit that they are not close and pursue other interest. I also don't think she passed up any school program to the point that all of these schools have lost interest in her. Almost every school that made her offer last year will come back again next year is she can't get into an Ivy school. I give her a lot of credit for picking a dream school and not a dream program. Good Luck Kendal.

 

[Trillium]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

I agree some what with the "Ivy smart or not" comment, but that just tells me that she is very close to getting in or she wouldn't be trying. The Ivy schools know this as well. If a recruit is not close the coaches will tell a recruit that they are not close and pursue other interest. I also don't think she passed up any school program to the point that all of these schools have lost interest in her. Almost every sschool that made her offer last year will come back again next year is she can't get into an Ivy school. I give her a lot of credit for picking a dream school and not a dream program. Good Luck Kendal.

I agree with these comments.

I don't know any details about this particular situation (and it's frankly no one's business but hers!), but I do know that in the vast majority of such cases the problem is not usually with having the marks or academic ability to succeed at the desired school. After all, if the player isn't likely to pass once they get there, there's little point spending much time recruiting them is there?

Generally, the problem rests with getting the SAT scores corresponding to one's grades. Usually, it's because the student didn't spend enough time upfront prepping to do well on the tests....and/or perhaps didn't take their tests soon enough in the recruiting and admissions cycle to satisfactorily address the issue once it occurred. That's how waiting another cycle to make a decision can pay dividends.

 

[SlewFoot]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

I agree some what with the "Ivy smart or not" comment, but that just tells me that she is very close to getting in or she wouldn't be trying. The Ivy schools know this as well. If a recruit is not close the coaches will tell a recruit that they are not close and pursue other interest. I also don't think she passed up any school program to the point that all of these schools have lost interest in her. Almost every sschool that made her offer last year will come back again next year is she can't get into an Ivy school. I give her a lot of credit for picking a dream school and not a dream program. Good Luck Kendal.

I think anyone that wants to work hard and improve themselves to get into a dream school is to be congratulated. Correct me if I'm wrong but I think people are really concerned about the type of shenanigans that goes on in mens' sports (especially football and basketball). Shenanigans like taking easy courses to upgrade a GPA or finding a school that will "help" you with your grades so that you can play a sport for a big time program. I may be naive and I know all schools, coaches and ADs are competitive but I don't think that would happen in womens' sports especially at Harvard. Womens' sports are not money makers therefore I don't think there is the temptation by ADs to skirt the rules. Also, I think that the Ivies have too much integrity to play such games at the risk of losing their reputations as academic institutions that have sports and not the other way around. Good luck to Ms. Coyne.

 

[THE Icemom]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

Ok, I am going to knock over the beehive here...Ms Coyne has decided to do a year of post graduate. Whether it be to get into her dream school, whether it be because she is not ready for college life, whatever the reason may be, it is her decision which I am sure was discussed with her family. Is it our child? NO! The decision should not be questioned, speculated or debated.

If Ms. Coyne (or any of her family) reads this...I commend you for chosing the path you have chosen. It shows me that you are a mature, driven young woman who does not succumb to what some percieve as the norm. Good luck in your endeavors.

I shall be telling this with a sigh
Somewhere ages and ages hence:
Two roads diverged in a wood, and I--
I took the one less traveled by,
And that has made all the difference.
Robert Frost

 

[Thunderbird77]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

Let it be known, I’ve never resorted to name calling on this forum before

only meatheads who neglect to do their schoolwork

I think what you might have meant is that you've never resorted to name calling in the past half hour.

 

[alslammerz]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

If y'all are talking about Ms. Coyne, this article breaks it down pretty well.

Coyne prepping for Harvard dream
Posted on July 16, 2010 by admin

She wanted to play for Harvard. Coyne’s hockey credentials are unquestioned, but the elite Cambridge, Mass., school wanted to see higher SAT and ACT scores than the above average scores Coyne already posted.

Coyne, a Palos Heights resident whose four years at Sandburg coincided with her ascendance in women’s junior hockey, was considered the season’s top recruit. Her resume includes starring for the U.S. team at the World Junior Championships the last three years, leading the team to two gold medals and a controversial silver.

With Harvard suggesting a year in prep school and Coyne antsy to play college hockey – “I’ve been ready to play college hockey for a couple of years,” she said Monday – she looked elsewhere. For a time, it appeared a ride to Boston University was hers for the asking.

Ah, the world of women’s college hockey is not only small, but a curious one. After BU coach Brian Durocher told the Coyne family he had two scholarships remaining, and that Coyne and the best Canadian female player – Marie-Philip Poulin, called “the Sidney Crosby of women’s hockey” – were the two players he wanted to sign, a funny thing happened.

Poulin committed. Then Durocher called back and said he had only a half-scholarship left for Coyne’s freshman year. Apparently, not only the ice is slippery in women’s college hockey.

“Obviously, I wasn’t expecting it, but everything happens for a reason,” Coyne said Monday. “My dream has always been to go to Harvard. What BU did may help that happen.”

With BU out, and other schools Coyne was interested in already having filled their rosters, the move was to Plan B: A year of college prep school, as Harvard had suggested.

Coyne will go to the Berkshire School, a college prep school in Sheffield, Mass., with a girls hockey team, plus a boys team, with which she’ll also practice.

“This is definitely going to help,” Coyne said of her year between high school and college. “If it (going to Harvard) happens, it happens this way.”

If it does happen, Coyne could end up playing for Harvard against BU, rather than for BU against Harvard. It could happen in the Beanpot Tournament, the annual scrap involving Harvard, Northeastern, Boston University and Boston College. Outside of international play and the Women’s Frozen Four, the Beanpot features the most intense women’s hockey of the season.

As her international record showed, Coyne excels in those situations. Next up is the U.S. team’s Under-22 training camp, beginning Aug. 13. That will be her first experience with the national team since the great game robbery at Seven Bridges Ice Arena in Woodridge, where Coyne’s score giving the U.S. junior team a two-goal lead over Canada in the gold-medal game was wiped out by the referee. Video and photo evidence proved the puck entered the net. Canada rallied to win. Coyne has relived that nightmare more than a few times.

“You can’t walk into a rink without someone asking about it,” Coyne said.

August’s camp will lead to a three-game series against Canada in Toronto, after which Coyne will embark on her year at Berkshire. Which will lead, she hopes, to Harvard Yard.

“I love Boston,” Coyne said.

However, if Harvard doesn’t call, there’s a Plan C.

“Cornell, they told me I’d have a pretty high, high chance of getting in,” Coyne said of the Ivy League school in Ithaca, N.Y. Boston College, coached by Katie King, who coached the U.S. juniors this year, also is a possibility.

Wednesday marked the start of the next college recruiting season. One of the first to call Coyne was Durocher, hoping to entice her to BU in fall 2011.

Her icy response: “Don’t even call me.”

It’s only July, but Coyne’s already thrown the first hard check of the season.

So, thanks BU . Unless she ends up in Ithaca .

 

[ARM]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

"Outside of international play and the Women’s Frozen Four, the Beanpot features the most intense women’s hockey of the season."

Could have used a fact check here, because I doubt anybody outside of Boston would agree. Give me the conference tournaments or the NCAA quarters over a regular-season tournament every time.

 

[alslammerz]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

Could have used a fact check here, because I doubt anybody outside of Boston would agree. Give me the conference tournaments or the NCAA quarters over a regular-season tournament every time.

Not my article, just my link.

I don't have nearly the sources to pull together that type of info. Actually, I'm not even sure how happy the school's compliance office would be if I talked to a recruit and asked questions about their recruiting process, so I don't/wouldn't do it.

 

[CanHockGuy]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

Why was BU the only choice besides ah Harvard. I guess nothing else was available. Just curious.....

 

[notfromaroundhere]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

Best of luck to Kendall. Sounds like she'll have great options regardless.

 

[alslammerz]

Re: D1 Commitments 2010-2011, part deux

Why was BU the only choice besides ah Harvard. I guess nothing else was available. Just curious.....

In the article she does say she's a fan of the city of Boston- it also seems like she committed to BU and then they didn't have a full scholarship for her, but they let her know after everyone had just about finalized their roster. It does mention the Big Red as a possible option going forward as well.