What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Covfefe-19 The 12th Part: The Only Thing Worse Than This New Board Is TrumpVirus2020

Status
Not open for further replies.
Swansong said:
Also, one note on Cuomo (and other governor's) move to "sent COVID patients back to die at nursing homes! He killed people!".

There was an issue early on where post-acute care facilities - SNFs, rehab hospitals, hospice homes, etc. - were refusing any new patients. Hospitals were at the breaking point and needed the beds, and there was a large amount of patients who no longer needed acute care but couldn't be discharged to their homes. In normal times, these patients are discharged to those same post-acute care facilities. First, acute care isn't needed anymore. Second, Medicare and every single private payor in the country would stop paying for acute care when it isn't needed (there's an insane labyrinth of "utilization review" that determines whether a payor will actually cover a hospital stay). With those other facilities refusing to take patients, what were we to do?
Click to expand...

This. Very much missed in the hysterical headlines.
 
Swansong said:
Also, one note on Cuomo (and other governor's) move to "sent COVID patients back to die at nursing homes! He killed people!".

There was an issue early on where post-acute care facilities - SNFs, rehab hospitals, hospice homes, etc. - were refusing any new patients. Hospitals were at the breaking point and needed the beds, and there was a large amount of patients who no longer needed acute care but couldn't be discharged to their homes. In normal times, these patients are discharged to those same post-acute care facilities. First, acute care isn't needed anymore. Second, Medicare and every single private payor in the country would stop paying for acute care when it isn't needed (there's an insane labyrinth of "utilization review" that determines whether a payor will actually cover a hospital stay). With those other facilities refusing to take patients, what were we to do?

I do not care for Cuomo. I think he's done a passable job with COVID, but he was in a no-win situation here. Existing laws require all care facilities to take necessary precautions for infectious patients. Some never have them - short-term rehab hospitals, for example, might not have the infrastructure for a true isolation setup - but most are required to maintain iso protocols. Cuomo was mainly reminding them of this, and preventing them from refusing patients they'd otherwise take if they had other infectious diseases.

It is pathetic and sad that many of these facilities either did absolutely nothing or, in some horrific cases, mixed COVID patients with non-COVID patients (see the VA hospital in Holyoke, MA. Seriously, people should be put in prison for that), but what was Cuomo to do?

Again, this is a red herring ginned up by dishonest people, counting on the masses not knowing the ins and outs of out healthcare system.

But... but... PCR! Sensitivity! Something about sero-something!
Click to expand...

"Red herring" my *****. Trump sent a hospital ship AND built field hospital facilities in NYC at the time Cuomo was sending COVID patients back to nursing homes. Cuomo had the power and ability to make use of those facilities to manage any of the emerging overflow issues (which thankfully didn't hit originally-panicked projections). Instead, he barely made use of them, the hospital ship left town and the field hospitals were dismantled after barely being utilized in some cases. You'll note the hospital ship Comfort was even reconfigured on the fly when the profile of admissions changed.

To even attempt to defend Cuomo for his handling and blame sharing on COVID is exactly the "dishonesty" you try to direct onto others.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...-200-patients/

https://apnews.com/e593ba57f37206b495521503d7e5e4c5

The data clearly indicates NY, NJ and MA handled COVID-19 worse (by far) than ANY Red state - including Florida a/k/a God's Waiting Room. You guys claim to be for SCIENCE, but when the facts AND the data don't fit your narrative, SCIENCE quickly goes out the window ...
 
Remember In April When Trump Was Pushing To Open Up

In the April 13 recording, Trump told Woodward that the coronavirus is “so easily transmissible, you wouldn’t believe it,” and he shared an anecdote about his effort to avoid infection after he was in the same room with a person who sneezed.

“I was in the White House a couple of days ago, meeting with 10 people in the Oval Office, and a guy sneezed ― innocently, not a horrible, you know just a sneeze. The entire room bailed out, OK? Including me, by the way.”

Publicly, on April 13, Trump was pushing to relax social distancing measures and reopen businesses across the country. He also threatened governors who might not comply with what he incorrectly called his “total” authority to force state economies to restart.
Click to expand...

Congrats you all got played! Chucky, Jebbers, FlaggyWhalers we are all pointing and laughing at you!
 
Chuck Murray said:
"Red herring" my *****. Trump sent a hospital ship AND built field hospital facilities in NYC at the time Cuomo was sending COVID patients back to nursing homes. Cuomo had the power and ability to make use of those facilities to manage any of the emerging overflow issues (which thankfully didn't hit originally-panicked projections). Instead, he barely made use of them, the hospital ship left town and the field hospitals were dismantled after barely being utilized in some cases. You'll note the hospital ship Comfort was even reconfigured on the fly when the profile of admissions changed.

To even attempt to defend Cuomo for his handling and blame sharing on COVID is exactly the "dishonesty" you try to direct onto others.

https://www.navytimes.com/news/your-...-200-patients/

https://apnews.com/e593ba57f37206b495521503d7e5e4c5

The data clearly indicates NY, NJ and MA handled COVID-19 worse (by far) than ANY Red state - including Florida a/k/a God's Waiting Room. You guys claim to be for SCIENCE, but when the facts AND the data don't fit your narrative, SCIENCE quickly goes out the window ...
Click to expand...
This is spectacularly and hilariously misguided.

These ships were only designed to be temporary, barely functioning (remember, they had been mothballed and rushed to get back into use) and weren't there for either COVID patients or for post-acute care patients. I know this is news to you, but not all patients are born equal. Acuity makes all the difference in the world. They were there for non-COVID overflow, which was less needed than anticipated. With almost no elective procedures taking place, significantly reduced car traffic leading to fewer accidents, no bars open leading to fewer issues from those and on and on, non-COVID care need was significantly reduced. Nursing homes are not acute care facilities. Equating them is misguided at best, and dishonest at worst (where you are now).

I can't speak for NYC because De Blasio is a blithering idiot, but MA handled this situation as well as any state. Baker has done a tremendous job in total and I'm immensely relieved he is my governor and not... anyone else (very much including Cuomo). Your assertion on Florida is particularly tragically hilarious, but expected, as is your assertion of what the science is saying.
 
I have to say. Chuck and Jebbers are right. Ignoring science is always the way to go. Polio for example. Science didn't have anything to do with eradicating it. Smallpox? Please. A group of Republican politicians in Washington wiped that disease out. And all those medical people on the front lines? What did science ever do for them?

And when Miami is under water it will be the politicians that come to save it. Mark my words.
 
Swansong said:
This is spectacularly and hilariously misguided.
Click to expand...

It's an Echo Chamber talking point that has been drilled into these rubes. I've heard it vomited back from other RWNJ. It's all they have.

The point of these lunatic narratives that Chuck and others are disgorging is not information to be debated and rebutted. It's a recruitment tool fascists use to seek others who are receptive to their real message, which is Dumpiness. By engaging you are spreading his propaganda and doing his work for him.
 
Swansong said:
This is spectacularly and hilariously misguided.

These ships were only designed to be temporary, barely functioning (remember, they had been mothballed and rushed to get back into use) and weren't there for either COVID patients or for post-acute care patients. I know this is news to you, but not all patients are born equal. Acuity makes all the difference in the world. They were there for non-COVID overflow, which was less needed than anticipated. With almost no elective procedures taking place, significantly reduced car traffic leading to fewer accidents, no bars open leading to fewer issues from those and on and on, non-COVID care need was significantly reduced. Nursing homes are not acute care facilities. Equating them is misguided at best, and dishonest at worst (where you are now).
Click to expand...

But you would be (spectacularly) wrong. Excerpt from the Navy Times piece I linked above:

"Comfort was directed to begin accepting COVID-19 patients on April 6, a decision that warranted an extensive layout reconfiguration to properly cordon off the coronavirus ward from the rest of vessel."

Swansong said:
I can't speak for NYC because De Blasio is a blithering idiot, but MA handled this situation as well as any state. Baker has done a tremendous job in total and I'm immensely relieved he is my governor and not... anyone else (very much including Cuomo). Your assertion on Florida is particularly tragically hilarious, but expected, as is your assertion of what the science is saying.
Click to expand...

Governor Baker has done such a "tremendous job" that in addition to landing MA in the Bottom Three of COVID-19 deaths - total or per capita, no matter - MA currently has the highest unemployment rate in the country. So more of his constituents have died than pretty much anywhere else (perhaps besides NY & NJ) AND on top of that, more of his surviving constituents are out of work than pretty much anywhere else in the US.

We can agree that DeBlasio is a blithering idiot. That DeSantis (Florida) isn't atop the death toll lists or unemployment lists, given the population demographics of his state, is probably pretty shocking to most of us, but his success can't be denied. The data is in now, and all the known metrics out there would seem to show he's outperformed most of his competition - that is, if keeping constituents alive AND gainfully employed are deemed important. Maybe you have different metrics?

As someone who lives in a state bordering Governor Baker's state, there's not a morning I don't wake up and thank God profusely that we have Governor Sununu in charge up here.
 
Kepler is right. Arguing with you is like arguing with a chair, but I'm a glutton for punishment and you are demonstrably wrong, everywhere, on everything.

The Comfort was re-purposed but since it doesn't have many of the required isolation protocol procedures and infrastructure required of other hospitals (since it doesn't require JCAHO certification), it wasn't a good COVID solution, and wasn't used as such. This doesn't refute my point in any way, shape or form.

Massachusetts was hit with a double whammy in March of being next to one of the world's most traveled cities (and thus, one of the largest outbreaks). I've no idea where you live, but Boston is barely 200 miles from NYC. To think that NYC's issues wouldn't immediately spread to nearby cities is ridiculous. The second whammy was the Biogen super-spreader event that took place in March and led to a crazy number of infections. I know you won't bother to google it, but between those two factors we got hit hard right up front.

And once again, you're factually inaccurate about MA. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...es_totaldeaths - sixth in the country in total COVID deaths (and I'd bet that Florida, Georgia and Texas are wildly undercounting), but 3rd in deaths per 100,000. Again, if DeSantis or Kemp weren't blatantly lying about infections, deaths, testing or basically anything else COVID-related, they'd be much higher.

State unemployment is obviously high in states that are doing the right thing and closing things down. I mean, duh? Unfortunately, doing the right thing has consequences.


https://www.miamiherald.com/news/cor...242552796.html
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/us/fl...ata/index.html


edit: sorry, I'm not clicking a bullshit townhall link or watching a bullshit fox news anything. I am 100% confident that his comments are taken out of context because he's been fairly critical of states reporting from the start.


And with that I'm done with you too, since you're just regurgitating what trollbot posts at this point.

Release the parachute! It's no longer needed.
 
Last edited:
Swansong said:
Kepler is right. Arguing with you is like arguing with a chair, but I'm a glutton for punishment and you are demonstrably wrong, everywhere, on everything.

The Comfort was re-purposed but since it doesn't have many of the required isolation protocol procedures and infrastructure required of other hospitals (since it doesn't require JCAHO certification), it wasn't a good COVID solution, and wasn't used as such. This doesn't refute my point in any way, shape or form.

Massachusetts was hit with a double whammy in March of being next to one of the world's most traveled cities (and thus, one of the largest outbreaks). I've no idea where you live, but Boston is barely 200 miles from NYC. To think that NYC's issues wouldn't immediately spread to nearby cities is ridiculous. The second whammy was the Biogen super-spreader event that took place in March and led to a crazy number of infections. I know you won't bother to google it, but between those two factors we got hit hard right up front.

And once again, you're factually inaccurate about MA. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...es_totaldeaths - sixth in the country in total COVID deaths (and I'd bet that Florida, Georgia and Texas are wildly undercounting), but 3rd in deaths per 100,000. Again, if DeSantis or Kemp weren't blatantly lying about infections, deaths, testing or basically anything else COVID-related, they'd be much higher.

State unemployment is obviously high in states that are doing the right thing and closing things down. I mean, duh? Unfortunately, doing the right thing has consequences.


https://www.miamiherald.com/news/cor...242552796.html
https://www.cnn.com/2020/05/20/us/fl...ata/index.html


edit: sorry, I'm not clicking a bull**** townhall link or watching a bull**** fox news anything. I am 100% confident that his comments are taken out of context because he's been fairly critical of states reporting from the start.


And with that I'm done with you too, since you're just regurgitating what trollbot posts at this point.

Release the parachute! It's no longer needed.
Click to expand...

When you engage the fool, you become one. Ignore.
 
Swansong said:
Kepler is right. Arguing with you is like arguing with a chair, but I'm a glutton for punishment and you are demonstrably wrong, everywhere, on everything.

The Comfort was re-purposed but since it doesn't have many of the required isolation protocol procedures and infrastructure required of other hospitals (since it doesn't require JCAHO certification), it wasn't a good COVID solution, and wasn't used as such. This doesn't refute my point in any way, shape or form.
Click to expand...

There was no reason Cuomo couldn't have asked the Feds to expedite certifications/approvals, and the Feds would have granted it. They did that for everything else, it's not like they were withholding help. Not sure why you're covering for his incompetence? It's not like NYC is the only place in the US with nursing homes and acute care facilities, etc. ad nauseum.

You still haven't mentioned anything about the various unused field hospitals built in & around NYC.

Swansong said:
Massachusetts was hit with a double whammy in March of being next to one of the world's most traveled cities (and thus, one of the largest outbreaks). I've no idea where you live, but Boston is barely 200 miles from NYC. To think that NYC's issues wouldn't immediately spread to nearby cities is ridiculous. The second whammy was the Biogen super-spreader event that took place in March and led to a crazy number of infections. I know you won't bother to google it, but between those two factors we got hit hard right up front.
Click to expand...

I may live closer to Boston than you do (45 minutes), and we haven't seen any pass-along effect from either NYC or Boston that you're describing between NYC and Boston. FWIW I know two attendees from the now-infamous Biogen conference.

Swansong said:
And once again, you're factually inaccurate about MA. https://covid.cdc.gov/covid-data-tra...es_totaldeaths - sixth in the country in total COVID deaths (and I'd bet that Florida, Georgia and Texas are wildly undercounting), but 3rd in deaths per 100,000. Again, if DeSantis or Kemp weren't blatantly lying about infections, deaths, testing or basically anything else COVID-related, they'd be much higher.

State unemployment is obviously high in states that are doing the right thing and closing things down. I mean, duh? Unfortunately, doing the right thing has consequences.
Click to expand...

So I'm right that MA is Top Three on per capita deaths, very close on total deaths, and correct by all measures that MA has done worse than FL. Oh, and I'm right about the unemployment thingie, too.

Your main disconnect seems to be that you assume "doing the right thing" means closing things down forever, and with all due respect, I think that's been debunked. Besides, that's an opinion, NOT a fact.

I'd hope you have enough pride to operate outside of Chairman Kep's directives, but that's your call ...
 
It isn't about certifications, it's about infrastructure. Isolation doesn't care if you have a piece of paper, it requires actual physical things that said ships do not posses in numbers enough to be helpful. JCAHO could approve all they want and that wouldn't spontaneously materialize negative pressure rooms or segregate HVAC sections of a ship.

Boston was hit because it's a city. Cow Hampshire has a very low population density. And what does a virulently contagious disease like COVID love more than high population density? Stupid people like you.

I mean, I'm mystified by anyone with an IQ over 63 that can look at this situation and earnestly think this is nonsense, which means you're either dumb enough to qualify for SSDI or you're just being disingenuous.

Per capita deaths are important but when a chunk of the country is demonstrably lying, unfortunately it's not a good indicator anymore. And again, no shit that when you appropriately close a state down that unemployment goes up. In other news, rain comes from the sky!

My main disconnect is nothing of the sort.
 
http://citypages.com/news/minnesota...VG0Vi6gDWS91qB6TGuh94kJDXqim1wCOl7NKCrC8PXNeo

So The MNGOP, in a session devoted to trying to take away Tim Walz's COVID powers decides they would rather turn the session into a "Minneapolis is a hellhole where you couuld die!!" session. Why you ask?

“A friendly, [sic] reminder (as discussed in caucus) to stay on message IF you speak today,” it read. “COVID issues are not our winning message. PUBLIC SAFETY is our ticket to the majority, let’s win with that.”
Click to expand...

Seems like a solid plan...except the minority leader sent it to the Dems instead of the GOP.

It cannot be stated enough how friggin stupid the MNGOP is...and the people who support it are certifiable.
 
Just heard. Germany has just announced three more cases( no idea what the total is) traced to a bar in the alpine regions frequented by an American woman suspected of ignoring quarantine.

I'm surprised any country would allow Americans inside its borders at this point.
 
Status
Not open for further replies.
Back
Top