Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
That is also what I have heard. They want to find out everything about those arrested.
That is also what I have heard. They want to find out everything about those arrested.
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Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
- Thread starter Handyman
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rufus
rock and roller
Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
He wants to see the destruction stop. There's a difference.
He wants to see the destruction stop. There's a difference.
rufus
rock and roller
Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
Drew likes those guys. Just good ol' patriotic Americans, exercising their Constitutional rights.
Drew likes those guys. Just good ol' patriotic Americans, exercising their Constitutional rights.
I think that attitude is why nothing ever changes. It isn’t going to come easy.
rufus
rock and roller
Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
I ain't got the time or effort to search back through your posts regarding such stuff as Black Lives Matter, the protests against Wall Street, the protests in Portland Oregon and the Seattle region, the protests against the keystone Pipeline, and Ferguson, and Trayvon Martin, and others, but I'm gonna wager a small guess that your attitude towards those was just a tad bit different.
I ain't got the time or effort to search back through your posts regarding such stuff as Black Lives Matter, the protests against Wall Street, the protests in Portland Oregon and the Seattle region, the protests against the keystone Pipeline, and Ferguson, and Trayvon Martin, and others, but I'm gonna wager a small guess that your attitude towards those was just a tad bit different.
Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
I can see significant value in that information, but does it give you any trepidation about how it might be used when it is collected by law enforcement? Other than possible hate crime status, how should white nationalist alignment be relevant to arrest and/or prosecution? I understand the information might just be just used to help law enforcement agencies better understand things like mob dynamics and community relations.
I can see significant value in that information, but does it give you any trepidation about how it might be used when it is collected by law enforcement? Other than possible hate crime status, how should white nationalist alignment be relevant to arrest and/or prosecution? I understand the information might just be just used to help law enforcement agencies better understand things like mob dynamics and community relations.
Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
If you are breaking the law, and are arrested, you cede certain things, and information on ties to extremist organizations, whether it be White Nationalists or Antifa*, is one of those things.
*there is anti-fascist, and then there is Antifa. Much like there is conservative, and then there is MAGA.
If you are breaking the law, and are arrested, you cede certain things, and information on ties to extremist organizations, whether it be White Nationalists or Antifa*, is one of those things.
*there is anti-fascist, and then there is Antifa. Much like there is conservative, and then there is MAGA.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
No, there is antifa and there is antifa. It's not centralized. Some groups are violent only in self defense against violence, some will actively incite confrontations with Nazis. I have no problem with either approach.
But let's say some antifa cell of five guys somewhere is insane -- say they send letter bombs to judges (oops, that was conservatives) or they murder the children of liberals at summer camp (conservatives again) or they commit mass murder in black churches (yep, conservatives) or blow up the day care center in a government building (guess who?). Say they do some awful sh-t.
Just as, although there are some bad conservatives, we don't demonize all conservatives, we also don't demonize a movement devoted to crushing fascism. Because crushing fascism is good. To the extent that right wing groups feel threatened by that in principle, those groups are identifying themselves as white nationalists and Nazis.
And f-ck them.
If Dump or the GOP feels threatened by antifa in principle, that tells me about Dump and the GOP, not antifa.
No, there is antifa and there is antifa. It's not centralized. Some groups are violent only in self defense against violence, some will actively incite confrontations with Nazis. I have no problem with either approach.
But let's say some antifa cell of five guys somewhere is insane -- say they send letter bombs to judges (oops, that was conservatives) or they murder the children of liberals at summer camp (conservatives again) or they commit mass murder in black churches (yep, conservatives) or blow up the day care center in a government building (guess who?). Say they do some awful sh-t.
Just as, although there are some bad conservatives, we don't demonize all conservatives, we also don't demonize a movement devoted to crushing fascism. Because crushing fascism is good. To the extent that right wing groups feel threatened by that in principle, those groups are identifying themselves as white nationalists and Nazis.
And f-ck them.
If Dump or the GOP feels threatened by antifa in principle, that tells me about Dump and the GOP, not antifa.
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Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
The comparison is the same as saying well, there are non-violent MAGAs, and then there are violent MAGAs. The non-violent (and non-racist) MAGAs are called conservatives.
I don't oppose the non-violent anti-fascists at all. I support them. The violent wing of Antifa is what I oppose. Violence is violence, and it's not okay.
The comparison is the same as saying well, there are non-violent MAGAs, and then there are violent MAGAs. The non-violent (and non-racist) MAGAs are called conservatives.
Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
The ones who fight it through voting, social causes and organizations and such, that is very good.
The ones who use violence to fight white supremacy are stooping to their level, and that's not good.
The ones who fight it through voting, social causes and organizations and such, that is very good.
I didn’t really post much here in those days. I’ll give you a recap though:
I was strongly in favor of Occupy Wall Street seeing as I’m a millennial. I didn’t participate but did go to NY to see Zuccoti Park when it was in full swing.
I had mixed feelings on the Trayvon Martin situation. Did they ever figure out who was the inital aggressor? And was it true that area had a lot of crime leading up to it? To some degree I might have missed the bigger picture at the time.
I was strongly in favor of the Ferguson protests. It was disgraceful the cop got off without even being indicted and you would have a hard time convincing me the powers that be didn’t completely tank it.
I didn’t have strong feelings either way on Keystone. There is a huge environmental cost to move oil via rail or truck too.
I don’t really remember the Oregon and Seattle protests.
I think the reason I feel so strong on this is the nature of the crime, it wasn’t just a moment of madness like a shooting can be. The fact three other officers let it happen makes it that much worse. I read a couple books this year that have really effected my views on race as well, ‘Nickel Boys’ and ‘Twelve Mile Straight.’ They deserve so much better and hopefully someday we get there as a country.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
It's actually not really that coherent to call any of antifa "non-violent." IINM antifa's emphasis on direct action means if you punch them they're going to punch you back. There's no turning the other cheek. So I think you disapprove of all of antifa. They will be crushed to hear it.
Roughly, these are the violence levels:
(1) Nazi beats up a guy, antifa beats up that Nazi.
(2) Nazis beat up random guys; antifa beats up random Nazis.
(3) Nazis show up, antifa beats them up.
Level (1) is direct retribution against an actor.
Level (2) is collective retribution against a group which shields or approves of an actor.
Level (3) designates Nazism itself to be violence and responds in kind.
My impression is the breakdown is something like 75% / 24% / 1%. You can certainly present or withhold your approval of their actions, though again, much like the protesters, they aren't asking for your permission, and that is a big, big shock to a white male of means in America. We're supposed to be the arbitrators of behavior! When we say law, we always meant our preferences!
It's actually not really that coherent to call any of antifa "non-violent." IINM antifa's emphasis on direct action means if you punch them they're going to punch you back. There's no turning the other cheek. So I think you disapprove of all of antifa. They will be crushed to hear it.
Roughly, these are the violence levels:
(1) Nazi beats up a guy, antifa beats up that Nazi.
(2) Nazis beat up random guys; antifa beats up random Nazis.
(3) Nazis show up, antifa beats them up.
Level (1) is direct retribution against an actor.
Level (2) is collective retribution against a group which shields or approves of an actor.
Level (3) designates Nazism itself to be violence and responds in kind.
My impression is the breakdown is something like 75% / 24% / 1%. You can certainly present or withhold your approval of their actions, though again, much like the protesters, they aren't asking for your permission, and that is a big, big shock to a white male of means in America. We're supposed to be the arbitrators of behavior! When we say law, we always meant our preferences!
Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
If you get punched, literally, you can punch back. That is self-defense. No issue there.
I shall rephrase in that case. STARTING the violence is wrong. So, in your #2 and #3? Nope.
So the rioters these past few nights, outsiders or not, they are in the wrong.
And for the locals, KSTP (the number 5) has live coverage of a Floyd rally. Completely peaceful, HUGE crowd. THESE are the protesters. THESE are the people that no one should be after. For the out-of-towners, dunno if you can find a local stream or not. I have never looked.
If you get punched, literally, you can punch back. That is self-defense. No issue there.
I shall rephrase in that case. STARTING the violence is wrong. So, in your #2 and #3? Nope.
So the rioters these past few nights, outsiders or not, they are in the wrong.
And for the locals, KSTP (the number 5) has live coverage of a Floyd rally. Completely peaceful, HUGE crowd. THESE are the protesters. THESE are the people that no one should be after. For the out-of-towners, dunno if you can find a local stream or not. I have never looked.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
Yes. I think that is why the footage is so horrifying even to people who usually masturbate to the cops. My mother-in-law worked with cops for 20 years and always gives them the benefit of the doubt, and she's not exactly what you'd call racially enlightened either (she's an old Arizona white, whaddya want?). And she thinks Chauvin should get the chair.
Yes. I think that is why the footage is so horrifying even to people who usually masturbate to the cops. My mother-in-law worked with cops for 20 years and always gives them the benefit of the doubt, and she's not exactly what you'd call racially enlightened either (she's an old Arizona white, whaddya want?). And she thinks Chauvin should get the chair.
Kepler
Si certus es dubita
Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
The rioters are telling you they didn't start the violence.
<img src="https://www.charlestonchronicle.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/demonstratorsshowmurderedbypolicesign-1.jpg" height=300>
This is their self-defense.
The rioters are telling you they didn't start the violence.
<img src="https://www.charlestonchronicle.net/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/demonstratorsshowmurderedbypolicesign-1.jpg" height=300>
This is their self-defense.
Re: Cops 8: I Am Out Of Here...
And the protesters are not being violent, which is something I've been saying all week.
The rioters, who are stealing TVs and burning businesses because of justice...or something...are the ones that should be targeted and arrested.
And the protesters are not being violent, which is something I've been saying all week.
The rioters, who are stealing TVs and burning businesses because of justice...or something...are the ones that should be targeted and arrested.
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