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Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

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Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

trixR4kids said:
North Charleston demographics from wiki:
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North Charleston is a municipality, jury pools are generally drawn from counties. I'm not sure which county this trial is in but Charleston itself is pretty white. I'm sure it's not near 10-1 but I wouldn't be surprised if those counties are 70% Caucasian.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

SonofSouthie said:
Hung jury in South Carolina "cop shoots fleeing black motorist in back". Jury made up of 11 whites, 1 black.

http://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/ju...ial-for-motorists-death/ar-AAkYsUX?li=BBnb7Kz
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Radiolab's podcast this last week (actually I think they just played More Perfect's this week) was about Batson vs Kentucky. The decision basically changed the definiton of a peremptory challenge. It used to be that you could get rid of a certain number of jurors for no reason. After finding that blacks were almost always taken out, Batson changed it so they had to give a reason, and that reason could not be race. All this really did was make prosecutors come up with creative excuses, aka where the juror lived or his profession or really off the wall stuff. In one instance a prosecutor took a (black) juror off because he was a Mason and he did not want a Mason on the jury because they have their own sets of principles and rituals. When they brought him back in for more questioning it was revealed he was actually a brick mason and had nothing to do with the Masonic temple, but the judge let the reasoning stand anyway because "I understand what you meant."
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Spartanforlife4 said:
Radiolab's podcast this last week (actually I think they just played More Perfect's this week) was about Batson vs Kentucky. The decision basically changed the definiton of a peremptory challenge. It used to be that you could get rid of a certain number of jurors for no reason. After finding that blacks were almost always taken out, Batson changed it so they had to give a reason, and that reason could not be race. All this really did was make prosecutors come up with creative excuses, aka where the juror lived or his profession or really off the wall stuff. In one instance a prosecutor took a (black) juror off because he was a Mason and he did not want a Mason on the jury because they have their own sets of principles and rituals. When they brought him back in for more questioning it was revealed he was actually a brick mason and had nothing to do with the Masonic temple, but the judge let the reasoning stand anyway because "I understand what you meant."
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That's what my post was referring to, it was just a relay of More Perfect which I love so far. Batson doesn't require a reason unless asked to clarify if one side feels it is based on race. Wonder what the lawyers around here think of batson?
 
Shirtless Guy said:
That's what my post was referring to, it was just a relay of More Perfect which I love so far. Batson doesn't require a reason unless asked to clarify if one side feels it is based on race. Wonder what the lawyers around here think of batson?
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It's mainly toothless. Good principle, almost impossible to enforce.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Wisko McBadgerton said:
North Charleston is a municipality, jury pools are generally drawn from counties. I'm not sure which county this trial is in but Charleston itself is pretty white. I'm sure it's not near 10-1 but I wouldn't be surprised if those counties are 70% Caucasian.
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Maybe, but the county isn't representative of the city in that case and therefore isn't a jury of peers.
 
Shirtless Guy said:
what about the thought of getting rid of peremptory challenges?
Is that better than what we have now?
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Only if judges start striking more for cause. Which is doubtful.

Honestly, the biggest thing that needs to happen is that more minorities need to register to vote and get driver's licenses, since those are the pools that most juries are drawn from.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

trixR4kids said:
Maybe, but the county isn't representative of the city in that case and therefore isn't a jury of peers.
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The Constitution doesn't grant a right to a "jury of peers" to the defendant but rather states an "impartial jury".

Further the trial is to be held within the state, and it's been held that generally the pool of potential jurors should be made up from a cross section of the population of the surrounding area. Trials are of course moved around states from time to time because of publicity.

As a similar example, Near North Milwaukee neighborhoods are 90% black, but blacks make up only about 25% of Milwaukee County. Would it be your position that crimes committed in Near North Milwaukee neighborhoods should only be tried in front of 90% black juries in Milwaukee circuit courts?
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

What is the Standing Rock's standing in the protest? As I understand it, the pipeline passes near, but not on, their reservation.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

joecct said:
What is the Standing Rock's standing in the protest? As I understand it, the pipeline passes near, but not on, their reservation.
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They're not a monolithic bloc. From what I've seen thus far, they have differing views from person to person, though most don't really care about it one way or the other.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

The pipeline goes under the lake and near some burial sites. If there is a spill (and we all know the record of oil companies just ask The Gulf) it could contaminate the water of millions. Plus they are claiming rights under a treaty from 1851.

What claim did the Dildo Revolutionaries have over the land they occupied? Why werent they sprayed with water cannons and shot with rubber bullets and such? They had weapons and were calling for open rebellion, the Sioux are not.

Once again the problem is optics...and it will look 10 times worse if any Vets get hurt protecting the Standing Rock protesters. If North Dakota calls in the National Guard this could get real bad. I am sure though plenty around here will blame the protesters for not "doing it peacefully" when that is what they have done for the majority of this despite the crap the Sheriffs have pulled.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Handyman said:
The pipeline goes under the lake and near some burial sites. If there is a spill (and we all know the record of oil companies just ask The Gulf) it could contaminate the water of millions. Plus they are claiming rights under a treaty from 1851.

What claim did the Dildo Revolutionaries have over the land they occupied? Why werent they sprayed with water cannons and shot with rubber bullets and such? They had weapons and were calling for open rebellion, the Sioux are not.

Once again the problem is optics...and it will look 10 times worse if any Vets get hurt protecting the Standing Rock protesters. If North Dakota calls in the National Guard this could get real bad. I am sure though plenty around here will blame the protesters for not "doing it peacefully" when that is what they have done for the majority of this despite the crap the Sheriffs have pulled.
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The data is a few years old, ending in 2009, but pipelines look to have pretty good numbers though not perfect. The link also includes a map of all the existing pipelines in the US.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

St. Clown said:
They're not a monolithic bloc. From what I've seen thus far, they have differing views from person to person, though most don't really care about it one way or the other.
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From what source to you conclude that most don't care one way or another? Not saying that's not true--just wondering.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

burd said:
From what source to you conclude that most don't care one way or another? Not saying that's not true--just wondering.
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I've not seen statistical breakdowns, only when you look at the numbers of the protesters, their general makeup, and then you look at the tribal population, a very small portion of them look to be from the local tribe. Add to that, a couple people I know from out that way have made those very assertions. The protesters are not from ND.
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Wisko McBadgerton said:
As a similar example, Near North Milwaukee neighborhoods are 90% black, but blacks make up only about 25% of Milwaukee County. Would it be your position that crimes committed in Near North Milwaukee neighborhoods should only be tried in front of 90% black juries in Milwaukee circuit courts?
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I'm from near there so I know how Milwaukee is extremely segregated. I can't say I agree with the idea that a police officer who gets charged for a crime in a neighborhood that's 99% black should get an 11-1 white jury, that's bull****. Not to mention it's more like 40% black in the city proper and I never said anything about 90%..
 
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trixR4kids said:
I'm from near there so I know how Milwaukee is extremely segregated. I can't say I agree with the idea that a police officer who gets charged for a crime in a neighborhood that's 99% black should get an 11-1 white jury, that's bull****. Not to mention it's more like 40% black in the city proper and I never said anything about 90%..
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How are the jury lists compiled?

Voter registrations?
Drivers License registrations?
Property records?

If you don't vote, don't have a driver's license, and rent, there's a good chance you won't be picked for a jury pool.

Guess where you'll find people who meet that criteria?
 
Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Owning property isn't on many states' criteria list anymore. If it were, I wouldn't have been called in for jury duty twice before I ever purchased my house.
 
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