Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Body cam video was released today of a police shooting this past March, in which no charges were filed: http://www.azcentral.com/story/news...y-camera-video-shows-fatal-shooting/87625554/

As usual, they investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

As usual, they investigated themselves and found they did nothing wrong.

You are the strangest cat.

You are fully aware that cops kill innocent people and then cover it up, but you fulminate against BLM, a group founded to raise awareness that cops kill innocent people and then cover it up.

 

[dxmnkd316]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Subscribed.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

You are the strangest cat.

You are fully aware that cops kill innocent people and then cover it up, but you fulminate against BLM, a group founded to raise awareness that cops kill innocent people and then cover it up.

Let us know when BLM talks about a non-black victim, or when they talk about black-on-black violence. The group is racially motivated, and is paid by George Soros to only hype the issues that fit the "racism" narrative.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Let us know when BLM talks about a non-black victim, or when they talk about black-on-black violence. The group is racially motivated, and is paid by George Soros to only hype the issues that fit the "racism" narrative.

This is simply uninformed. BLM's own website debunks these misconceptions, whether they are honest misunderstandings or politically-motivated slanders.

On "ignoring black-on-black violence":

The idea that black-on-black crime is not a significant political conversation among black people is patently false. In Chicago, long maligned for its high rates of intraracial murder, members of the community created the Violence Interrupters to disrupt violent altercations before they escalate. However, those who insist on talking about black-on-black crime frequently fail to acknowledge that most crime is intraracial. Ninety-three percent of black murder victims are killed by other black people. Eighty-four percent of white murder victims are killed by other white people. The continued focus on black-on-black crime is a diversionary tactic, whose goal is to suggest that black people don’t have the right to be outraged about police violence in vulnerable black communities, because those communities have a crime problem. The Black Lives Matter movement acknowledges the crime problem, but it refuses to locate that crime problem as a problem of black pathology. Black people are not inherently more violent or more prone to crime than other groups. But black people are disproportionately poorer, more likely to be targeted by police and arrested, and more likely to attend poor or failing schools. All of these social indicators place one at greater risk for being either a victim or a perpetrator of violent crime. To reduce violent crime, we must fight to change systems, rather than demonizing people.

On "hating white people":

The statement “black lives matter” is not an anti-white proposition. Contained within the statement is an unspoken but implied “too,” as in “black lives matter, too,” which suggests that the statement is one of inclusion rather than exclusion. However, those white people who continue to mischaracterize the affirmation of the value of black life as being anti-white are suggesting that in order for white lives to matter, black lives cannot. That is a foundational premise of white supremacy. It is antithetical to what the Black Lives Matter movement stands for, which is the simple proposition that “black lives also matter.” The Black Lives Matter movement demands that the country affirm the value of black life in practical and pragmatic ways, including addressing an increasing racial wealth gap, fixing public schools that are failing, combating issues of housing inequality and gentrification that continue to push people of color out of communities they have lived in for generations, and dismantling the prison industrial complex. None of this is about hatred for white life. It is about acknowledging that the system already treats white lives as if they have more value, as if they are more worthy of protection, safety, education, and a good quality of life than black lives are. This must change.

On "hating police":

Police officers are people. Their lives have inherent value. This movement is not an anti-people movement; therefore it is not an anti-police-officer movement. Most police officers are just everyday people who want to do their jobs, make a living for their families, and come home safely at the end of their shift. This does not mean, however, that police are not implicated in a system that criminalizes black people, that demands that they view black people as unsafe and dangerous, that trains them to be more aggressive and less accommodating with black citizens, and that does not stress that we are taxpayers who deserve to be protected and served just like everyone else. Thus the Black Lives Matter movement is not trying to make the world more unsafe for police officers; it hopes to make police officers less of a threat to communities of color. Thus, we reject the idea that asking officers questions about why one is being stopped or arrested, about what one is being charged with, constitutes either disrespect or resistance. We reject the use of military-grade weapons as appropriate policing mechanisms for any American community. We reject the faulty idea that disrespect is a crime, that black people should be nice or civil when they are being hassled or arrested on trumped-up charges. And we question the idea that police officers should be given the benefit of the doubt when it comes to policing black communities. Increasingly, the presence of police makes black people feel less rather than more safe. And that has everything to do with the antagonistic and power-laden ways in which police interact with citizens more generally and black citizens in particular. Therefore, police officers must rebuild trust with the communities they police. Not the other way around.

I have watched BLM members on talk shows address non-black victims of police and also talk about black-on-black violence. In each case they decry it, but it is also not their issue. Their primary focus is on the differential standard applied by law enforcement to people of color.

Your criticism is like slamming "Save the Children" for not spending an equal amount of time trying to protect adults. Picking a focus on one problem does not indicate you don't care about any other problem.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

The problem with BLM's claim of not hating police is that I happen past their rallies in the Hennepin County courthouse almost weekly, and the street level protestors and their signs make some pretty outlandish statements against the cops.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

The problem with BLM's claim of not hating police is that I happen past their rallies in the Hennepin County courthouse almost weekly, and the street level protestors and their signs make some pretty outlandish statements against the cops.

I'm sure there are people like that in any movement. In fact, a time-honored way to de-legitimize a cause is to focus on people like that. My point in quoting extensively from the official BLM site is they acknowledge and address the very issues people often say they ignore.

Any time movements take place on the street, things can get dicey. But at the same time the attention gained for a cause by taking to the street very often leads to progress on the issues. The risk of action is it goes pear-shaped and your cause is hurt. The risk of inaction is it virtually guarantees nothing will change.

 

[St. Clown]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

I'm sure there are people like that in any movement. In fact, a time-honored way to de-legitimize a cause is to focus on people like that. My point in quoting extensively from the official BLM site is they acknowledge and address the very issues people often say they ignore.

Any time movements take place on the street, things can get dicey. But at the same time the attention gained for a cause by taking to the street very often leads to progress on the issues. The risk of action is it goes pear-shaped and your cause is hurt. The risk of inaction is it virtually guarantees nothing will change.

The best way to solve it is to get a large number of black people into the police force, have them act as the primary patrols for predominantly black neighborhoods. It's an unfortunate segregation of communities by race, but for the time being it looks to be the best solution. Minneapolis has been pushing for this for a long time now, but the MPD has stated repeatedly that they receive very few qualified applicants from the black community. While that's where the comments from MPD end, it's likely a factor of the failing schools, which is likely rooted in poverty, which, in turn, creates difficulty in getting the necessary education so the black community can produce enough qualified applicants to then be hired by the MPD - the payoff is too much in the long-term and families' economic needs are far too immediate. Local departments have had some better luck with the Hmong population, which is a significant size in St. Paul, more than Minneapolis. Actually, the last time I got pulled over was by a Hmong officer with the state patrol.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

The best way to solve it is to get a large number of black people into the police force, have them act as the primary patrols for predominantly black neighborhoods

I think more and more PDs are realizing this. Either Newark or Trenton (or both) made dramatic progress in police-citizen relations when they created programs where officers policed neighborhoods they had grown up in and in many cases still lived in.

But the long-term goal should be a race-blind PD. Segregation may ameliorate problems in the short term, but long-term the American solution has been blending and peaceful coexistence.

Also, we do need to change the training and attitudes within PDs that lead to racist reactions like honestly feeling more at risk when confronting a black suspect. That type of institutional racism affects everybody, even black officers, and it violates the equal protection under the law that all people are entitled to.

 

[SJHovey]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

The best way to solve it is to get a large number of black people into the police force, have them act as the primary patrols for predominantly black neighborhoods. It's an unfortunate segregation of communities by race, but for the time being it looks to be the best solution. Minneapolis has been pushing for this for a long time now, but the MPD has stated repeatedly that they receive very few qualified applicants from the black community. While that's where the comments from MPD end, it's likely a factor of the failing schools, which is likely rooted in poverty, which, in turn, creates difficulty in getting the necessary education so the black community can produce enough qualified applicants to then be hired by the MPD - the payoff is too much in the long-term and families' economic needs are far too immediate. Local departments have had some better luck with the Hmong population, which is a significant size in St. Paul, more than Minneapolis. Actually, the last time I got pulled over was by a Hmong officer with the state patrol.

Possibly. Can't really hurt, although as I recall some of the Baltimore cops accused in the bad car ride case were black.

I still go back to training. I watched the documentary The Seven Five again the other night. It's funny how little has changed over the decades. The bad cops in that case recalled their days at the academy when they received training from Internal Affairs on how to address bad cop behavior. After the IA guy left, these cops recalled their instructors saying something to the effect, "Ok, that's how they're telling you to handle it, but forget that. Here's how you handle it out on the street."

Until you get rid of that mindset at an institutional instructional level, nothing will change.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

The problem with BLM's claim of not hating police is that I happen past their rallies in the Hennepin County courthouse almost weekly, and the street level protestors and their signs make some pretty outlandish statements against the cops.

I'm sure there are people like that in any movement. In fact, a time-honored way to de-legitimize a cause is to focus on people like that. My point in quoting extensively from the official BLM site is they acknowledge and address the very issues people often say they ignore.

Rinse, repeat. Movements attract a small percentage of pre existing extremists which then try to pervert the movement. And then society misunderstands the movement based on this handful of extremists and paints the movement as horrible, alienating the large number of members who are trying to do good. Its almost brought up daily here...and people still fall into the same trap.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

The problem with BLM's claim of not hating police is that I happen past their rallies in the Hennepin County courthouse almost weekly, and the street level protestors and their signs make some pretty outlandish statements against the cops.

I see...so then we can assume anyone who ever voted GOP is as stupid as the nimrod who put a Hitler stache on Obama? The movement is bigger than just the angry mob...

Plus your (and mine) perspective of how cops are is different than what theirs is...perhaps the views arent as outlandish as we may think they are.

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

"Ok, that's how they're telling you to handle it, but forget that. Here's how you handle it out on the street."

Until you get rid of that mindset at an institutional instructional level, nothing will change.

I think there will always be some of that. It's replicated everywhere: soldiers in the trenches make gallows humor about the plans drawn up at HQ; workaday business drones ignore the TPS reports dreamt up on Mahagony Row; HVAC tech toss thirty page instruction manuals aside and whack the unit with a hammer. There is always some variation of "those airy fairy managers with hands soft from counting money." I'm sure Roman soldiers cracked wise at Julius Caesar behind his back.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Went to the wrong house and can't see the suspect? Whatever, just shoot anyway. http://www.nydailynews.com/news/nat...me-responding-wrong-address-article-1.2732599

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

This is simply uninformed. BLM's own website debunks these misconceptions, whether they are honest misunderstandings or politically-motivated slanders.

How about actually watching one of their rallies? It is clear racial motivation. It's just like all the anti-war protesters from moveon.org. Obummer perpetuated the war, yet those protesters suddenly disappeared...

 

[Kepler]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

How about actually watching one of their rallies? It is clear racial motivation. It's just like all the anti-war protesters from moveon.org. Obummer perpetuated the war, yet those protesters suddenly disappeared...

You know better than most the media coverage of a political event is always driven by an agenda. When trying to find out what an organization's goals are, a good place to start is their mission statement.

The far right's race war fantasies are about selling bunker supplies and ammo to an audience kept in perpetual terror. You should also recognize that strategy -- it's a classic PsyOp.

 

[Handyman]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Well I have worked at a BLM backed event and you are giving them too much credit. I literally watched them rip into a room filled with white people who were honoring them and giving them money. They seemed like they wanted to start a war with the people who were there to help them.

 

[trixR4kids]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

I gotta imagine they're quite divided in terms of agenda at the more local levels.

 

[5mn_Major]

Re: Cops 4: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly

Well I have worked at a BLM backed event and you are giving them too much credit. I literally watched them rip into a room filled with white people who were honoring them and giving them money. They seemed like they wanted to start a war with the people who were there to help them.

So does that mean the BLM is a stupid movement? Does that mean BLM in general hates whites?

What is your point?

 

[unofan]

So does that mean the BLM is a stupid movement? Does that mean BLM in general hates whites?

What is your point?

My personal impression is that it's a valid movement with **** poor leadership. They take one step forward and then 5 steps backwards by shooting themselves in the foot with poor tactical decisions.