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Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

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Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

SJHovey said:
But the other problem is that the "connections," once dug into, don't exist or don't exist like claimed. It always turns out something like "CIA operative X was in Mexico City the same day as LHO." Mexico City is a big farking city, and the CIA had/has "assets" in a great many metropolitan areas, both here and abroad, I'm guessing. That's why I don't buy it.
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I'd need to see each claim broken down. That is certainly possible, but it hasn't been my reaction.
 
Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

Kepler said:
I'd need to see each claim broken down. That is certainly possible, but it hasn't been my reaction.
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I can't in good conscience recommend that anyone read Vincent Bugliosi's book History Reclaimed. It's just too long and tedious. It would be like telling you to go read the Ariel and Will Durant Story of Civilization books because the theories are debunked in there. But it is a valuable book from the standpoint that Bugliosi examined pretty much every single theory that exists and then shoots massive, gaping holes in those theories, or provides the information from others who came before and blew up the theory.
 
Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

And so it begins. Former HSCA counsel Robert Tannenbaum is reporting video evidence of CIA officer David Phillips with Oswald at an anti-castro training camp has disappeared and therefore is not part of today's release. That folks, is criminal.
 
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SJHovey said:
I can't in good conscience recommend that anyone read Vincent Bugliosi's book History Reclaimed. It's just too long and tedious. It would be like telling you to go read the Ariel and Will Durant Story of Civilization books because the theories are debunked in there. But it is a valuable book from the standpoint that Bugliosi examined pretty much every single theory that exists and then shoots massive, gaping holes in those theories, or provides the information from others who came before and blew up the theory.
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And he was rebutted point by point by James DiEugenio and others, all pointing to released documents etc.

Bugliosi side stepped much of the CIA proof including and especially demorenschildts babysitting if LHO.
He also ignored ford's moving jfk's back wound and head wound to match specter' theory.
 
SJHovey said:
But the other problem is that the "connections," once dug into, don't exist or don't exist like claimed. It always turns out something like "CIA operative X was in Mexico City the same day as LHO." Mexico City is a big farking city, and the CIA had/has "assets" in a great many metropolitan areas, both here and abroad, I'm guessing. That's why I don't buy it.
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They're professionals of the highest order when it comes to tradecraft, murder, propaganda, psych warfare. That's why it's taken decades to unravel who was behind this. Look, and you'll find David Phillips committing perjury to the HSCA, Angleton perjuring himself earlier at the church committee.

Here are quotes from the men themselves
Angleton to The NY Times "a mansion has many rooms, I don't know who got John"
Morales "we got the sob didn't we! And I was in l.a. When we got the little bastard"
Nixon to DCI Richard Helms "I don't care who shot John"
Nixon to Haldeman "tell Helms hunt knows too **** much. This could blow up the whole bay of pigs thing" haldemn said bay of pigs was code for jfk
The HSCA **** near unraveled the case in less than 2 years. You'll find enough evidence there if you take the time to read it or listen to their investigators
 
Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

SJHovey said:
Ariel and Will Durant Story of Civilization
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This is a light read. I'm not kidding -- it's obviously long but it's breezy and completely accessible, and not in any way tedious. I recommend anybody with a layman's interest read it. It's not academic quality scholarship but it's still worth something, especially if you like your history before the rot set in in the 70s (which I do).
 
Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

Delay on some documents due to "national security concerns". About 2,800 will be released.
 
Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

I picture trump having a big press conference to release the files, making a big show of opening up the first folder and there’s a note written in big green crayon, “CRUZ DID IT”
 
Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

Files...news paper articles! Cover pages not corresponding with documents, one file on bill Clinton ***?

Counterintelligence chief James Angleton's 151 page secret church committee testimony missing. Yeah, full disclosure.
 
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Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

What's missing from the released files? Oh, nothing. Just James Angleton, Howard Hunt, Bill Harvey, George Joannides,David Phillips, you know, the guys who were in on the plot (save for Hunt...maybe...)
Also CIA in Dallas, files absent.

Don't tell me about national security this is cya and a middle finger to all Americans and really the world.

But maybe all isn't lost. Here's an interesting story from an outlet I would not think would be favorable to new information:https://t.co/oFun2pFsU5?amp=1
 
Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

I saw an interview last night with John Tunheim. Tunheim is the chief federal judge in the state of Minnesota. He also happens to be the person who headed up the committee that reviewed the all the documents 25 years ago as part of the law that said these documents should be released as of yesterday unless the President determines otherwise.

Tunheim, who is as straight a shooter as you can find, and as a federal judge serving for life, is someone that I will believe before any dead Watergate burglars or conspiracy theorists. He's actually looked at all the documents, including those that weren't released yesterday.

He said there won't be any surprises. It's going to deal primarily with how the CIA and FBI investigated the case, who they talked to, etc...

But, the nice thing is that with the withholding of some documents the conspiracy theorists still have something to hang their hat on, and aren't forced yet to the final straw, "well, they destroyed all the good stuff."
 
SJHovey said:
I saw an interview last night with John Tunheim. Tunheim is the chief federal judge in the state of Minnesota. He also happens to be the person who headed up the committee that reviewed the all the documents 25 years ago as part of the law that said these documents should be released as of yesterday unless the President determines otherwise.

Tunheim, who is as straight a shooter as you can find, and as a federal judge serving for life, is someone that I will believe before any dead Watergate burglars or conspiracy theorists. He's actually looked at all the documents, including those that weren't released yesterday.

He said there won't be any surprises. It's going to deal primarily with how the CIA and FBI investigated the case, who they talked to, etc...

But, the nice thing is that with the withholding of some documents the conspiracy theorists still have something to hang their hat on, and aren't forced yet to the final straw, "well, they destroyed all the good stuff."
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Yeah, except he's changed his tune. Up until this year he felt they were lied to by the agencies and was calling for the release of everything.

Quick note in this because it's important. Tunheim marked documents NBR not believed relavent. We now know the files of George Joannides were designated nbr.

Who is George Joannides? The psychological warfare expert hand picked by Richard helms to be case officer for the DRE Cuban student group that confronted Oswald in New Orleans and who counted Carlos bringier as a leader. They were paid $51,000 a month by the agency which is close to $400,000 in today's dollars. Why is this important? The CIA assets confront Oswald, debate him on radio and tv, all the while Oswald is chumming with FBIagents and men like bannister, Ferrie and Shaw all uber right wingers. Then the Cubans call radio and tv on 11-22 to inform Oswald was a commie. Joannides had an apt in New Orleans in summer of 63 when this took place.
So CIA officer has his assets confront, debate then inform on Oswald post-assassination and this is a not believed relavent story/man?

Tunheim didn't know what he was looking at. And he freely admits the CIA lied to him about Joannides. Also admits the secret service destroyed their protection plan notes when his arrb requested them.

You see, the truth IS out there.
 
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Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

solovsfett said:
Yeah, except he's changed his tune. Up until this year he felt they were lied to by the agencies and was calling for the release of everything.

Quick note in this because it's important. Tunheim marked documents NBR not believed relavent. We now know the files of George Joannides were designated nbr.

Who is George Joannides? The psychological warfare expert hand picked by Richard helms to be case officer for the DRE Cuban student group that infringed Oswald in New Orleans and who counted Carlos bringing as a leader. They were paid $51,000 a month by the agency which is close to $400,000 in today's dollars. Why is this important? The CIA assets confront Oswald, debate him on radio and tv, all the while Oswald is chumming with FBIagents and men like bannister, Ferrie and Shaw all uber right wingers. Then the Cubans call radio and tv on 11-22 to inform Oswald was a commie. Joannides had an apt in New Orleans in summer of 63 when this took place.
So CIA officer has his assets confront, debate then inform on Oswald post-assassination and this is a not believed relavent story/man?

Tunheim didn't know what he was looking at. And he freely admits the CIA lied to him about Joannides. Also admits the secret service destroyed their protection plan notes when his arrb requested them.

You see, the truth IS out there.
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So, you figure they (whoever they might be) got to Tunheim?

I don't know. Obviously I have not spent nearly the time studying this as you have. But the interview I saw of Tunheim last night did seem to demonstrate a man upset with missing documents or claiming he was lied to. He was just a guy who said I've seen all the documents, I don't think there are going to be any surprises, I do think they show LHO shot Kennedy, and I think they should be released. He said the reason he thinks they should be released is because it will help put this to rest, not because of the secrets they will reveal.

Personally, my opinion is, was, and probably always will be this. LHO, on his own, killed Kennedy. The CIA and FBI were probably in the middle of doing a lot of other really bad things like plotting to kill Castro, plotting to kill mob leaders, plotting to kill whoever, and also did their usual stellar job. The extent to which they have tried to hide documents is likely due to getting embarrassed about failed efforts to kill Castro or some other character. It's all about embarrassing events, the way they wrote the reports, or conjectures that they made that they've been trying to cover up for 55 years, not a plan by the CIA to kill Kennedy. The hidden reports will read something like, "Followed this Oswald character from Moscow to Mexico City. Spent a night with a couple of whores but nothing else to see. Oh, but hey, also happened to see Hubert Humphrey in a Mexican donkey show one night. That was interesting."
 
Re: Conspiracy Theory Du Jour

solovsfett said:
Yeah, except he's changed his tune. Up until this year he felt they were lied to by the agencies and was calling for the release of everything.

Quick note in this because it's important. Tunheim marked documents NBR not believed relavent. We now know the files of George Joannides were designated nbr.

Who is George Joannides? The psychological warfare expert hand picked by Richard helms to be case officer for the DRE Cuban student group that infringed Oswald in New Orleans and who counted Carlos bringing as a leader. They were paid $51,000 a month by the agency which is close to $400,000 in today's dollars. Why is this important? The CIA assets confront Oswald, debate him on radio and tv, all the while Oswald is chumming with FBIagents and men like bannister, Ferrie and Shaw all uber right wingers. Then the Cubans call radio and tv on 11-22 to inform Oswald was a commie. Joannides had an apt in New Orleans in summer of 63 when this took place.
So CIA officer has his assets confront, debate then inform on Oswald post-assassination and this is a not believed relavent story/man?

Tunheim didn't know what he was looking at. And he freely admits the CIA lied to him about Joannides. Also admits the secret service destroyed their protection plan notes when his arrb requested them.

You see, the truth IS out there.
Click to expand...

I always thought the most interesting thing about Joannides was that the CIA summoned him out of retirement to serve as agency liaison to the House Select Committee on Assassinations regarding JFK in 1978. If Joannides did know where the bodies were buried, wasn't it convenient for him that he was in control of information flow to the HSCA from CIA...
 
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