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Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

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SJHovey said:
There was an interesting column recently in the Minneapolis Star Tribune on a subject Kepler has touched on, briefly, in some of his past posts. The idea that at some point technology will largely eliminate the idea of work, the need people will have for a guaranteed income, and how do we get there.

It won't happen in the decade, tops, I'll be getting up and heading off to the salt mine in the morning, but posters younger than me will have to struggle with this transition.

For those interested. http://www.startribune.com/lee-scha...is-it-time-for-a-guaranteed-income/421479323/
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If we don't make anything, but leave it to machines (which we made), how does civilization advance?

Under the above scenario, it seems we exist, not live.
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

joecct said:
If we don't make anything, but leave it to machines (which we made), how does civilization advance?

Under the above scenario, it seems we exist, not live.
Click to expand...

Many people, though not everyone, will seek out a purpose to their daily lives. There are certain tasks that simply cannot be automated no matter how much our tech advances. So the idea that people will seek out those careers, or create new industries, technologies or uses for current tech, is what will drive the success of this experiment.

This will follow some sort of bell curve, in that we have to adjust the expectations of the curve to current demographics in that area - own education, own religion, parents' education, parents' religion, cost of living, etc..
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

St. Clown said:
Many people, though not everyone, will seek out a purpose to their daily lives. There are certain tasks that simply cannot be automated no matter how much our tech advances. So the idea that people will seek out those careers, or create new industries, technologies or uses for current tech, is what will drive the success of this experiment.

This will follow some sort of bell curve, in that we have to adjust the expectations of the curve to current demographics in that area - own education, own religion, parents' education, parents' religion, cost of living, etc..
Click to expand...

Excellent post. I agree 100%.
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

SJHovey said:
There was an interesting column recently in the Minneapolis Star Tribune on a subject Kepler has touched on, briefly, in some of his past posts. The idea that at some point technology will largely eliminate the idea of work, the need people will have for a guaranteed income, and how do we get there.

It won't happen in the decade, tops, I'll be getting up and heading off to the salt mine in the morning, but posters younger than me will have to struggle with this transition.

For those interested. http://www.startribune.com/lee-scha...is-it-time-for-a-guaranteed-income/421479323/
Click to expand...

No offense to my learned friend Kep but I don't see this Star Trek type world existing anytime soon. There's a simple reason for this that has nothing to do with robots, conservatives, liberals or anything else.

The reason is almost everyone knows a mooch. Could be a sibling, an in-law, an old friend, whatever. Under this guaranteed income scenario, all of these people get money regardless of effort. That's never going to fly. Not taking a position on whether that's right or wrong but the results of the last election ought to tell you what can happen when even a crazed lunatic can connect with people on an emotional level. Now one could argue under guaranteed income we're all mooches essentially but again I've watched 40 years of "welfare queens" and "illegal immigrants stealing your jobs" to know that these sort of appeals actually work.
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

Pretty soon, it's going to be "Robots and computers are stealing your jerbs!", and then the purge of Silicon Valley will begin. ;)
 
FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Pretty soon, it's going to be "Robots and computers are stealing your jerbs!", and then the purge of Silicon Valley will begin. ;)
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A repetition of the riots in England ~200 years ago.

Speaking of riots, Spirit Airlines cancelled 9 flights out of Ft. Lauderdale yesterday. The passengers were not amused and things got a bit ugly. Police were called and arrests were made.

Spirit blamed the pilots for an "unwarranted job action". The pilots blame Spirit.
 
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Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

FadeToBlack&Gold said:
Pretty soon, it's going to be "Robots and computers are stealing your jerbs!", and then the purge of Silicon Valley will begin. ;)
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Didn't they make the same arguments in the Industrial Revolution with automated machinery? And how are we doing today?

That's one thing I enjoy about my field. With the automation of some tasks, we can create more and more complex things to where we're still able to be useful. Implementation may be a science, but design and creativity will always be an art.
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

This is a very good idea in any working environment.

Asymmetry of information is one of the major ways management aids ownership in exploiting labor. We can't help that in most things (profits, operating capital, etc) but we can share all our compensation information. Think of what happened when athletes started to know each other's salaries.

The fact that this is taboo just tells you who controls cultural mores. They don't call it hegemony for nothing.
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

Kepler said:
This is a very good idea in any working environment.

Asymmetry of information is one of the major ways management aids ownership in exploiting labor. We can't help that in most things (profits, operating capital, etc) but we can share all our compensation information. Think of what happened when athletes started to know each other's salaries.

The fact that this is taboo just tells you who controls cultural mores. They don't call it hegemony for nothing.
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I'm a multi-millionaire...





...in yen and pesos.

Don't know what these entitled, union media jerks are whining about. ;)
 
Kepler said:
This is a very good idea in any working environment.

Asymmetry of information is one of the major ways management aids ownership in exploiting labor. We can't help that in most things (profits, operating capital, etc) but we can share all our compensation information. Think of what happened when athletes started to know each other's salaries.

The fact that this is taboo just tells you who controls cultural mores. They don't call it hegemony for nothing.
Click to expand...

Monday is the 126th Anniversary of this.

Let the working man and the employer make free agreements, and in particular let them agree freely as to the wages; nevertheless, there underlies a dictate of natural justice more imperious and ancient than any bargain between man and man, namely, that wages ought not to be insufficient to support a frugal and well-behaved wage-earner. If through necessity or fear of a worse evil the workman accept harder conditions because an employer or contractor will afford him no better, he is made the victim of force and injustice.
Click to expand...
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

dxmnkd316 said:
Huh

https://www.theatlantic.com/business/archive/2017/05/shame-mortgage-interest-deduction/526635/
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Banks love the deduction since it encourages people to get a bigger mortgage than they otherwise would have requested. So it becomes another income transfer, though an indirect effect in this case, from the middle class to the wealthiest stockholders of those banks (middle class people really own very little stock when compared in aggregate).
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

The wealthiest stockholders tend to be pensions and institutions. I'd be curious how much the average middle class person with a retirement account has in the stock market relative to the average 1%er. As a percentage of assets, I would guess the wealthiest Americans have a smaller portion of their wealth and retirement in the stock markets. And pension holdings aren't anything to sneeze at.
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

What does anybody here know about Sullivan & Cromwell?

As a rank outsider, it seems to me that they might just, um, run the world?
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

Kepler said:
What does anybody here know about Sullivan & Cromwell?

As a rank outsider, it seems to me that they might just, um, run the world?
Click to expand...
All I know about them is summarized by this one story.

A close friend of mine (we worked for the same company back in the 1980's) has a brother-in-law who graduated from law school in about 1984 or so. His first job was with Sullivan and Cromwell and he was paid a starting wage of $150,000/yr. This guy would periodically call my friend and complain/laugh. S&C had him sitting in an office doing literally nothing. He just sat there. He got to attend a couple of meetings with about 8 other lawyers, but that was it. At the end of the year, he quit and moved out of New York. Said it drove him crazy.
 
Re: Completely Unwoven: Business, Economics, and Tax Policy 4.0

I just can't bring myself to shop at Lowe's and Menard's doesn't have the same level of quality in their products. Plus their owner is kind of a knuckledragger himself.
 
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