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College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

Re: College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

Chickens@NU said:
Few things with regards to the NCAA record book... These questions are coming from the newest record book (2010-2011) too....

How can CC own the longest losing streak at 31 games yet they also own the longest winless streak (from the same time frame) and that is 2 games shorter than the longest losing streak?

Theissen owns a career sv% of .922 yet doesn't show up in the NCAA records that go down to .920....

There were some others but i don't wanna keep looking....

So how do we know what of these records is legit? Just wondering....
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Direct from page 2 of the <a href=http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_icehockey_rb/2011/d1.pdf>Men's Division I Records</a>:
"Official NCAA men’s ice hockey records began with the 1947-48 (1948) season and are based on information submitted to the NCAA statistics service by institutions participating in the statistics rankings."

I would guess that the NCAA only compiles information the schools send them, so errors and omissions are the fault of the schools that supply, or don't supply, the information.

Sean
 
Re: College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

Need to to it on a pts/game basis, not total points (assuming a minimum # of games of course)
 
Re: College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

Puck Swami said:
The most interesting scorer to me is Phil Latreille, who played for Middlebury in early 60s, and was only allowed to play three years, as freshmen weren't eligible. In those days before the NCAA broke into D-I, D-II and D-III, Middlebury played many teams each season that remain D-I schools today. Oh, and the guy scored nearly 300 points in 3 years and had 80 goals as a senior! If he had an extra year....

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=10754
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Phil Latreille is in the <a href=http://fs.ncaa.org/Docs/stats/m_icehockey_rb/2011/d3.pdf>Division III Records</a> section. However, many of his records are missing from the NCAA record book. For example, only his senior season is listed for season scoring records, yet his junior and sophomore scoring and junior goals records should be listed as well.

The NCAA is not the only place missing some of his records, as HockeyDB is missing his freshman season. He played as a freshman in 1957-58 and had 36-16-52 in 20 games, good for 8th in scoring in the East (and the nation).

Sean
 
Re: College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

Why doesn't someone weight these by goals/points/game and by, say, mean goals scored per game for the league by decade, to compensate for declines in scoring (due to differences in goaltending, defense, coaching and conditioning). Then we could have a better comparison for how impressive players were across eras. If the data wasn't too hard to find, one could bring in top scorers from the 80's, 90's and 2000's and see if they start looking better by comparison. (Although this still wouldn't account for differences in depth. My guess is that there was a bigger discrepancy between the top players and 4th line players 40 -50 years ago than there is today.)
 
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Re: College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

http://www.hockeydb.com/ihdb/stats/pdisplay.php?pid=33733

I don't know if this is a Div 2 record, and I don't want to put in the leg work... but Mike Carr had 134-145--279 over four years at ULowell.

edit: Koho... from the data I've seen around, scoring was most certainly higher from the mid-90s on back. That being said, I am not sure if there are any seriously complete repositories of game records going so far back. Though, I have to wonder if our lack of totals versus earlier last decade (Panzer... and I'm sure others around 80 pts) has to do with a change in the game as much as anything else. I don't think scoring is down a quarter since 10 years ago.
 
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Re: College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

While a lot of the obvious reasons have been given for why scoring is down (better defense, better goaltending/equipment), I think another contributing factor is the rise in scouting and watching tape on your opponents. Coaches have been able to breakdown (especially in the WCHA, I can't speak too much outside the conference) tape of opposing team's powerplays and schemes. I think that, coupled with better defense, goaltending and equipment are the main reasons why scoring is down.
 
Re: College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

Koho said:
Did [Chiarelli] only play in 5 games, or what? 4.39/game????
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According to the article that accompanied his induction into the RPI 'Ring of Honor':

"As a forward from 1951-55, Chiarelli had 155 goals and 110 assists for 265 points in only 80 games. His single season totals were: Chiarelli led the Engineers in goals three times, assists once, and points twice. He twice scored a school-record seven goals in a game and remains the school single-season record holder for goals (55), goals per game (3.06 in 1951-52), hat tricks (9), and points per game (4.39 in 1951-52). He is also third in points in a season (79).

"A captain as a junior and senior, Chiarelli holds Rensselaer career records for goals, goals per game (1.94), hat tricks (23), and points and ranks third in points per game (3.31) and fifth in overall assists.

"He is the NCAA Division I record holder for goals per game in a career, goals per game in a season, and points per game in a season. He is also fifth in goals in a season (55) and sixth in goals per game in a season (1.80 in 1952-53)."


Overall, the RPI 1951–52 team averaged 8.28 goals per game, an NCAA record which stands today.
 
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Re: College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

defkit said:
I remember Montogomery's years well. :mad:I also remember Shawn Walsh being pretty livid when Dave Sacco was named All-American over him, despite having about 30 less points.:D
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Can't imagine why Walshy would be upset, Sacco couldn't hold Jimmys jock
 
Re: College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

LTsatch said:
Any reason why no one has made the list since the mid nineties?
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Not to repeat other peoples' speculations, here are two more possibilities:
1) players take nutrition and conditioning a lot more seriously overall. Thirty or forty years ago you might get a freakishly fit specimen who would be stronger or faster or have more stamina relative to his peers compared to today (on a relative basis). (in other words, how many points 'way back when' were scored in the third period when everyone else was gassed save one?)
2) related to number one, teams probably have more depth now than they did; so that the stud players don't get as much ice time per game now than they might have 'way back when'.

I suppose it is impossible to break it down to points / minutes on the ice; my suspicion is that if one were able to do so you'd see more people from the '90s and '00s showing up.


PS According to a story from 2004, the RPI team that won the 1954 championship only had 13 players on the team and typically used six forwards and four defensemen. Apparently Harkness was really big on conditioning. There also was an anecdote that he brought oxygen tanks to the final game in Colorado Springs because of the altitude, except that there wasn't really any oxygen in them, he just told the players that there was.
 
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Re: College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

Koho said:
Why doesn't someone weight these by goals/points/game and by, say, mean goals scored per game for the league by decade, to compensate for declines in scoring (due to differences in goaltending, defense, coaching and conditioning). Then we could have a better comparison for how impressive players were across eras. If the data wasn't too hard to find, one could bring in top scorers from the 80's, 90's and 2000's and see if they start looking better by comparison. (Although this still wouldn't account for differences in depth. My guess is that there was a bigger discrepancy between the top players and 4th line players 40 -50 years ago than there is today.)
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Good idea, why don't you do it? You can start with the NCAA DI (& DIII) records with already have the top scorers per game averages for many players.

Sean
 
Re: College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

walrus said:
Can't imagine why Walshy would be upset, Sacco couldn't hold Jimmys jock
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Sacco was a heck of a player. Over 200 points at BU. Maybe the key word/bias was All American. Montgomery was not an American....
 
Re: College Hockey's All-Time Leading Scorer

According to Wikipedia, the RPI 1951–52 team averaged 8.28 goals per game, an NCAA record which stands today.
 
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