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College Hockey...getting way too soft!

Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

I have said it a couple of times now. If the wanted to call a 2 minute penalty I would have been ok with that. Do you really feel that Gleason should have been ejected for the hit? Take off your badger jersey for a minute. Not only was he ejected he is in danger of getting a stiffer penalty from the wcha.

Boarding is not as black and white as you make it sound with the proper definition. It is one of the most judgemental calls a ref can make. 2 years ago there may have been 2 boarding calls a season. Now there is at least one every game.

Rule 604 Board-Checking

"A minor or a major penalty, at the discretion of the referee based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, shall be imposed on any player who body-checks, cross-checks, elbows, charges or trips in such a manner that causes the opponent to be thrown violently into the boards."

And yes it warranted an ejection. It was right in front of me and what the TV cannot show is how the Sioux player lined him up and came from a distance. You could see it coming and it was ugly in real time.

Keep arguing with the rule though. Maybe you'll wear ol' 604 down.
 
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Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!


How do you feel about the elbowing that gave Carter Rowney a concussion against Denver? Why wasn't that Denver player ejected?

Oh, right, nobody saw that hit or talked about it.
 
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Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

Dean Blais used to say that he wanted his players to play on the edge without going over the edge. I think the NCAA language redefines where the edge is. What was once allowable is no more. Some have yet to figure that out.

This is what I agree with. The parameters have changed, and for the better. Hitting is one small part of what makes hockey great. There will always be hitting, but hits don't need to be blow-ups to be effective or even fun to see.

A good, hard, clean check that actually gives a team strategic advantage is more exciting to me than the mid-ice blow-up where the puck just skitters away.
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

How do you feel about the elbowing that gave Carter Rowney a concussion against Denver? Oh, right, nobody saw that hit or talked about it.

What I didn't see was a parade of Denver fans defending it. Post it. Let's have a look.

Nobody's saying that other teams don't do these things on occasion. At the moment, SOME of your fan base seem to be the only ones defending them.
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

How do you feel about the elbowing that gave Carter Rowney a concussion against Denver? Oh, right, nobody saw that hit or talked about it.
I saw it and thought warranted a 5-minute major. It was an elbow targeted at the head. I have no idea why nobody has made an issue of it.
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

I saw it and thought warranted a 5-minute major. It was an elbow targeted at the head. I have no idea why nobody has made an issue of it.

You know, I think it was our defenseman McDonough last year who got a contact to the head ejection last year in either the NCAA's or at the Final Five and I don't remember any of us arguing it and I was on record as saying it was the right call.

If your guy got elbowed in the head by a PIO, then it should have been called. Everyone knows the PIO's are a bunch of goons anyway. ;)
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

Dean Blais used to say that he wanted his players to play on the edge without going over the edge. I think the NCAA language redefines where the edge is. What was once allowable is no more. Some have yet to figure that out.

Exactly. Most players were coached to "Keep your head up" and that if your head was down, you were "fair game" to be hit head on. That may be true in the NHL (where the CTH emphasis is on eliminating the blind side hits, rather than head-down hits), but the NCAA point of emphasis is clearly wider than the NHL. The NCAA "edge" has shifted from the "clean hit" free-pass benefit of the doubt going to the hitter to a big penalty if you don't pull up in time and pop someone in the head when it's down.

People may not like the fact that hockey is going to become a less violent game, but I'd rather have these players still in the rink than in the hospital, or god forbid, in the cemetary. Hockey is still a great game without contact to the head, and if you can't live without that, there is always MMA or other bloodsports out there to get your violence fix.
 
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Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

If your guy got elbowed in the head by a PIO, then it should have been called.
There was a penalty called:

DEN-3 Beau Bennett (2-Elbowing) NDK 1x3 19:57

But it wasn't called contact to the head, which it definitely was. I've seen far lesser hits called as majors.

However, I don't recall that the player on the receiving end (Carter Rowney) ever showed signs of having been injured on the play. It was probably easy to overlook given that UND won the game and the hit on Jesse Martin the next night tended to make everything else look minor in comparison. Also, maybe it's common knowledge, but I've never heard any confirmation that Bennett's hit caused the injury that put Rowney out of commission.
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

I saw it and thought warranted a 5-minute major. It was an elbow targeted at the head. I have no idea why nobody has made an issue of it.

Maybe, Carter should've stayed down on the ice after the hit. And then Sioux fans could capture the video and put it on youtube and complain about it for a week.

That might help.
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

People may not like the fact that hockey is going to become a less violent game, but I'd rather have these players still in the rink than in the hospital, or god forbid, in the cemetary.
I couldn't agree more.
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

The NCAA rules committee probably understands that checking an opposing player off the puck requires contact. The rules committee probably understands the determination of what constitutes "violence" is a subjective matter, but nonetheless they carefully chose the word "violent" to determine boarding and charging penalties. The implication here is that effective and permissible checks do not require "violence," no matter how much some people wish it were so.
The rules committee's apparent assumption is that player safety, skating, stick handling, passing and shooting are to be encouraged at the expense of reducing intimidation and injury. This is a tough argument to dismiss.
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

I love how you people get so worked up every time the Sioux deliver an illegal hit.

I wonder how much you miss that goes on with other teams, because you're not obsessed with those other teams.

Carter Rowney didn't play last weekend because he took an elbow to the head against Denver, but Sioux fans didn't whine about it for 4 days straight.

Keep spinning your wheels and hating, though. It's your loss.

I read SiouxSports. There's plenty of whining about Carter Rowney.
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

Watch the video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OBp10hz6rzw

I happened to fly next to an NHL ref last week with over 1,000 games of NHL experience. We got to talking about the whole contact to the head point of emphasis this year at the NHL and NCAA levels. I shared the Martin hit video with him on my computer screen. He looked at the play, the call and the position of the refs (at least that he could see). He said in the NHL, the hit probably would have not been called illegal, because the NHL point of emphasis is more about the blindside hit (T-bone) vs the head on collision where the injured player has his head down. However, he sees the NCAA point of emphasis on CTH as broader, and aimed at injury prevention. NHLers are more skilled players and skate with their heads up more often, while not all college players do, and he agreed with the WCHA's penalty call on the ice as an interpretation of the NCAA rule.

The above portion of your comment makes good sense.
It was interesting to note that the official did not consider the hit a blindside hit and did not consider it a penalty in the NHL, but that the interpretation of the new NCAA rule will result in penalties.

Because of the speed of the game collisions like this may be difficult to avoid. Typically a player in Malone's position and comming in with that speed would have to make a split second decision as to make a play for the puck or to make the check. Typically a player would need to focus on the puck and player positioning from the waist down. Looking up to see where a players head was positioned would take his eyes off the puck. In the NHL, by looking at the movement of the puck, a player delivering a check should be able to distinguish whether the hit is going to be a blindside hit or not.

Where the referee stated that NHLers are more skilled and skate with their head up more often seems to be the crux of the dilima. That comment seems to indicate that inexperienced college players need to keep their heads up more and also seems to indicate that college players should be aware that inexperienced players may skate with their heads down. College players and NHL players that get caught with their head down are generally quick to admit they they made a mistake.

Most important lesson to be learned here is that the new rule will prevent some injuries and will prevent many avoidable contacts to the head, however if you skate with your head down you are accepting a risk that you could be seriously injured. But on a positive note, the seriously injured player, that made a serious and possibly deadly mistake by keeping his head down too long, can now draw a penalty, even if the contact was unavoidable with no intent to injure, under the new rules. Not much of a consolation prize for playing with your head down.

Under the new rules teams will still aggessively check their opponents and history shows that the more experienced teams are often the most effective in checking their opponents into submission. Evidence of this can be seen in last years NC game and more recently in North Dakota's impressive sweep of Wisconsin last weekend where North Dakota had a 98-32 shots-on-goal advantage for the whole weekend, largly due to relentless checking.

Relentless checking wins games, and is appreciated at the next level in the NHL. The new rule is designed to prevent injury not to prevent relentless checking. Relentless checking will continue because teams still want to win and because players want to play in the NHL. My best advice to anyone that plays against North Dakota is that, North Dakota has an experienced team, you will be checked often, and some collisions may be violent, so that if you choose to play against North Dakota you must accept that there may be a heightened risk of injury to anyone choosing to play with their head down.
 
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Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

This above wording clarfies, at least in my mind that just because a player has his head down, the hitting player no longer gets a free pass. The hitting player is still responsible for not popping him in the head, which may be diffferent from the way the NHL calls it.

This has been my contention all along, regarding the hit to Martin. It does NOT matter whether Malone intended to do it or not and it does NOT matter that Martin dropped his head, all that matters is that there was full head contact and it is each players responsibility to control themselves in a manner so as not to hurt someone as seriously as what happened to Martin. I had this clarification fully explained to me prior to the season and have tried my best to covey this ever since the "incedent". The average college hockey fan has no clue (even if they THINK they do) as to how, if, when or why a penalty should or may be called -- especially for contact to the head or other majors.
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

when using the boarding rule as it is written almost every hit could be called boarding. The rule itself pretty much gives the refs a reason to call a penalty for checking too hard. The gleason hit was with the shoulder no hands or elbows up. They were far enough away from the wall where it shouldn't have been a big deal. I just didn't feel that gleason should have been thrown out of the game for that hit. It was not a dangerous hit. If the refs felt the hit warranted a penalty it should have been a 2 minute minor. If they start throwing guys out for every single hard hit it will change the game we all love. The game is great because of the combination of skill and physicallity.

exactly!!!!

Rule 604 Board-Checking

"A minor or a major penalty, at the discretion of the referee based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, shall be imposed on any player who body-checks, cross-checks, elbows, charges or trips in such a manner that causes the opponent to be thrown violently into the boards."

And yes it warranted an ejection. It was right in front of me and what the TV cannot show is how the Sioux player lined him up and came from a distance. You could see it coming and it was ugly in real time.

Keep arguing with the rule though. Maybe you'll wear ol' 604 down.

I highlighted some of the issues with the rule, that I think are causing the biggest arguments between users on this thread, and in the college hockey world. There's A LOT of room for interpretation. If my Mom was the ref there'd be lot of players getting thrown out. She's not refing any games but there could be refs that feel clean hockey hits are more violent than others- i.e a penalty under this rule. I highlighted body-checks, that should be eliminated all together. Then hits like the Gleason hit would never be given a major penalty. We have better athletes, less holding, tripping and hooking, etc... that give us a more skilled and faster game than in years past, with that speed there's going to be "violent" hits. If players position themselves to make shoulder-on-shoulder contact to a player that has the puck in a textbook hockey hit, there's no reason to hand out major penalties.
 
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Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

It doesn't matter what team we are talking about. As a Harvard fan, if a Harvard player did what Malone did to Martin, I would want him to sit for 5 games. I don't care if he was Harvard's best player.

There are things in life that are bigger than wins and losses on a sheet of ice - it's unfortunate that the Malone / Martin incident happened, but I would bet that it was one of the biggest lessons that Malone had ever learned in his short life thus far....and if Martin had been paralyzed....

This incident is a real coaching moment for all hockey programs (from the NHL to pee wee) and shame on the coaches if they don't all take their players aside and use video of this incident to discuss reckless hits and the long-term damages (physical & psychological to both participants) that can occur.
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

Then hits like the Gleason hit would never be given a major penalty. We have better athletes, less holding, tripping and hooking, etc... that give us a more skilled and faster game than in years past, with that speed there's going to be "violent" hits. If players position themselves to make shoulder-on-shoulder contact to a player that has the puck in a textbook hockey hit, there's no reason to hand out major penalties.

Reading comprehension must not be a strength? Shoulder to shoulder has no bearing on boarding. If you don't like the rule, that's fine. But don't say that it wasn't a penalty when it clearly fell within what the RULE calls boarding.

Here it is again. Maybe you should take notes this time.

Rule 604 Board-Checking

"A minor or a major penalty, at the discretion of the referee based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, shall be imposed on any player who body-checks, cross-checks, elbows, charges or trips in such a manner that causes the opponent to be thrown violently into the boards."
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

That's just your opinion and others will disagree. Any second now.

Rule 604 Board-Checking

"A minor or a major penalty, at the discretion of the referee based upon the degree of violence of the impact with the boards, shall be imposed on any player who body-checks, cross-checks, elbows, charges or trips in such a manner that causes the opponent to be thrown violently into the boards."
 
Re: College Hockey...getting way too soft!

The fact that you have to keep quoting the rule only strenghtens the argument that it is not as black and white of a call as you believe. It is a judgement call and it should have been a minor penalty if anything. Hard hits do not equal a major penalty and getting thrown out of the game. Unfortunate things happen, injuries etc. if they do it doesn't mean the hit was a major penalty.
 
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