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College Football Players---Students or Employees?

Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

SJHovey said:
For me the best part of this issue is the law of unintended consequences. Something the players, most of whom are just going along based upon the possibility there is something in it for them, haven't begun to consider. Everything from the tax consequences to all of the standard collective bargaining issues such as seniority. I personally look forward to seeing how it plays out.
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Haven't even thought about that. Shibby would really hit the fan somewhere if say some all world freshman fills in a game or two for an injured senior, and that senior comes back and its clear to everybody and their momma there that the freshman is better than the senior, but the senior has Seniority and thus bumps the freshman from starting. Or worse yet, there's a sophomore in between that all world freshman and that senior and he gets the start verses the freshman.
 
Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

bigmrg74 said:
Haven't even thought about that. Shibby would really hit the fan somewhere if say some all world freshman fills in a game or two for an injured senior, and that senior comes back and its clear to everybody and their momma there that the freshman is better than the senior, but the senior has Seniority and thus bumps the freshman from starting. Or worse yet, there's a sophomore in between that all world freshman and that senior and he gets the start verses the freshman.
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Do only people with more seniority start for a team in the NFL? I don't understand your line of thinking here at all.
 
Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

St. Clown said:
Do only people with more seniority start for a team in the NFL? I don't understand your line of thinking here at all.
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The difference with the NFL, though, as I understand it is that the collective bargaining agreement is one contract that covers all teams. The individual players each have their own contracts, and those contracts probably integrate the collective bargaining agreement to a great extent. But we're not talking about individual teams, like the Vikings, negotiating a collective bargaining agreement with just their own players. If the NFL system were translated to college, you might have something like the NCAA negotiating just one contract with all college football players.

Now, that said, it seems to me that things like seniority can be addressed. I just wonder how many of these players actually sat down and thought about what it means to be an "employee" under a typical collective bargaining agreement, or for that matter, what it means to be an employee at all.
 
Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

SJHovey said:
The difference with the NFL, though, as I understand it is that the collective bargaining agreement is one contract that covers all teams. The individual players each have their own contracts, and those contracts probably integrate the collective bargaining agreement to a great extent. But we're not talking about individual teams, like the Vikings, negotiating a collective bargaining agreement with just their own players. If the NFL system were translated to college, you might have something like the NCAA negotiating just one contract with all college football players.

Now, that said, it seems to me that things like seniority can be addressed. I just wonder how many of these players actually sat down and thought about what it means to be an "employee" under a typical collective bargaining agreement, or for that matter, what it means to be an employee at all.
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That's all well and good for the first paragraph, the problem I'd have is that as a rep of a college/university, you can be dang sure that I'd have written into the collective bargaining contract that we're not going to put a player onto the field due to seniority. It'd be not just a firm stance, but a rock solid stance, insisted upon by the coach or AD. Putting the most talented players onto the field will still be the rule of the day regardless of how this whole situation ends.
 
Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

St. Clown said:
That's all well and good for the first paragraph, the problem I'd have is that as a rep of a college/university, you can be dang sure that I'd have written into the collective bargaining contract that we're not going to put a player onto the field due to seniority. It'd be not just a firm stance, but a rock solid stance, insisted upon by the coach or AD. Putting the most talented players onto the field will still be the rule of the day regardless of how this whole situation ends.
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I would certainly think so.

Again, I have no idea how this will play out. I just think it's a kind of interesting if you think about it.

The professional collective bargaining agreements we've all seen in action are negotiated collectively, from both sides. That is, the players have one representative, and the owners or clubs also have one representative. Thus, all the teams basically abide by the same rules, such as player transfers, free agency and the like.

But that's not what is happening, at least not right now on the college level. Will the NCAA take over for the schools, as their negotiating agent? Otherwise what you will see is a mishmash of contracts. You could even see contracts at a school that are different depending upon the sport.

That then raises these interesting questions. Can a school insist on a non-compete agreement with a player before it agrees to give compensation? Are the players going to have to file tax returns and pay taxes in each state in which they play a game, just like the pros do? Does the idea of a "walk on" football or basketball player simply end? After all, any employer who chooses to have volunteers perform the exact same job duties that an "employee" performs runs the risk of running afoul of wage and hour laws if the "volunteer" isn't paid. There are probably a thousand complications that none of these players have given a moments thought to, I would bet.
 
Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

SJHovey said:
I

That then raises these interesting questions. Can a school insist on a non-compete agreement with a player before it agrees to give compensation? Are the players going to have to file tax returns and pay taxes in each state in which they play a game, just like the pros do? Does the idea of a "walk on" football or basketball player simply end? After all, any employer who chooses to have volunteers perform the exact same job duties that an "employee" performs runs the risk of running afoul of wage and hour laws if the "volunteer" isn't paid. There are probably a thousand complications that none of these players have given a moments thought to, I would bet.
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Yup, the unintended consequences of all this are going to be hilarious. Once you open Pandora's Box you lose control...
 
Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

I heard the Northwestern players are voting on unionizing today, but I'm not paying close attention to what's going on. Is anyone following this?
 
Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

Critical Thinker said:
I heard the Northwestern players are voting on unionizing today, but I'm not paying close attention to what's going on. Is anyone following this?
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Vote is today (might be over already...not sure). The ballots will be sealed until the court case is resolved. The hearing before the NLRB will be sometime later this month (I believe). Following that, there will probably be appeals going on for awhile in federal court...maybe even up to the Supreme Court. In other words, we probably won't know the outcome of how they voted for a few years.
 
Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

That man was given 5.2oz of pasta, not the proscribed 5.0oz serving! Off with his head!
 
Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

St. Clown said:
I'm surprised this news wasn't already here. The NCAA lost a lawsuit about refusing to pay college athletes for use of their likeness, and paying them, in general. The court decision limits compensation to $5,000/year.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/08/sport/ncaa-student-athletes/index.html?hpt=hp_t2
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Haven't read the decision yet, but this strikes me as a mushy decision. If you have the right to sell your likeness, shouldn't you have the right to let the market determine how much that likeness is worth?
 
Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

CLS said:
Haven't read the decision yet, but this strikes me as a mushy decision. If you have the right to sell your likeness, shouldn't you have the right to let the market determine how much that likeness is worth?
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It reads like the judge came up with the number because she heard it through the grapevine that most schools would be happy with a "a few thousand dollars" compensation. It seemed pretty arbitrary to me, too.
 
Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

CLS said:
Haven't read the decision yet, but this strikes me as a mushy decision. If you have the right to sell your likeness, shouldn't you have the right to let the market determine how much that likeness is worth?
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Exactly. What's the precedent for the $5k cap?

Also, "college athletes" is bulls***. It's just football and men's basketball players. No one involved in this suit cares about hockey players or any other athlete.
 
Re: College Football Players---Students or Employees?

There is no way this stands up. It's a stupid ruling because he knows it's going to fail (for sure under title IX) and he's just trying to make a point. I hate rulings like that.

All in all, dumb.
 
dxmnkd316 said:
There is no way this stands up. It's a stupid ruling because he knows it's going to fail (for sure under title IX) and he's just trying to make a point. I hate rulings like that.

All in all, dumb.
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Or, Title IX forces the expansion to female athletes.

Or, the CHL starts advertising that you can get paid pkaying for them while in college you watch the hoops players get the bucks while you're freezing your butt off playing in front of the 3rd string cheerleaders.
 
First and foremost, yes, I know this is an 11 year old thread. But things happened last week that kind of decided the question in this thread.

Thanks to a ruling by Judge Wilken in the House v. NCAA case, schools are now allowed to revenue share with student athletes up to 20.5M dollars. I wish I could look into the details of that- if that limit is if you play every single sport, or will non football schools be able to pay their BB and/or hockey players more than schools that play football...

And I'm too lazy to read the details.

But now, our school is begging for money because of that. Seriously? Just name more of the head coaches for donors like you do now, and use that money.

Still- lots of changes with revenue sharing AND NIL money for players. All of that has really made us reconsider our scholarship donations to athletes.
 
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