Colgate 2012-13

[critsports]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

appreciate the comments from our SLU friends...God, have you owned us over the past 5 years...good luck going forward...I've always felt there was a nice bond between the 'Gate and you guys...you love hockey and you're fair and knowledgeable fans...go to the NCAAs and get your boy a Hobey

Thanks......which one?? Flanagan or Carey?

 

[Harp 34]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

Sucks we had u guys the first round, I root for Gate' when I'm not rootin for SLU. I kind of like Starr and think they should remove the wood bleachers on the other side and just plug in more seating.

 

['Gate Man]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

Sad to see another season end so poorly. Regarding roster size, I believe Colgate allows 25 student slots for men's hockey and the coaching staff recruits to achieve that number. When dressing 20, that leaves one extra goalie and four extra skaters. Sometimes with injuries, transfers, recruits who change their minds, etc we don't always have that number.

Looking at it another way... this may not be a bad thing. Most players know they will be in the lineup, not yanked for a mistake. It does put a premium on recruiting players with a strong desire to compete, not just be on the team. I believe we do get those type players for the most part although maybe not the top end talent of some other schools. Thus our players have to develop and improve over the course of their careers. Some do, some don't. But this is true of all college hockey programs.

Year in and year out we have been competitive with anyone early in the season, but then falter late. College hockey is fast and physically demanding... especially back to back games each weekend with lengthy bus rides. It's also a long season. My take is that historically we overplay our top forwards and D. They play a regular shift, all power plays, all man down, and then get double shifted in tight games... which most of ours are. By the last half of the year our best players are physically/mentally worn out and have lost the desire and stamina to perform at their best while the others haven't developed enough to pick up the slack.

With the cards we are dealt (small roster, small town, old rink. etc), I firmly believe DV has to use the entire roster more effectively if we are to be strong in the ECAC stretch run and the playoffs. A new rink may help to recruit some better top end talent, but if we overplay them the end result may not change much.

 

[sshablak]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

To the SLU posters, You are a "class act and a classy school". Thank you and much luck going forward !!

 

[UHhky]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

For the love of god, Don, please just quit. Can we just make Dixy an offer he can't refuse?

 

[LTsatch]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

Good luck going forward Gate' you guys have a bright future. I see the team contending for a bye next season.

 

[TheGreenCoat]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

UHhky...I obviously share much of your frustration and right now my cynicism is nearing an all-time high...to presume that we can continue our current approach to competing in DI and then, presto chango, we get a new facility and everything changes is foolish beyond belief...I've talked about better recruiting (USHL, e.g.), better use of scholarship funds, expanded roster size to ensure 25 each year, etc. Curious to hear some of your ideas...I'm pretty negative right now, but, as you know, I've been (I think) objective over the past six years in comparing our structural approach to many improving programs in DI...here I find NO real changes and no real intent to re-think our approach...when Moore and Dickson left the program has deteriorated and I firmly believe it is no coincidence...I know our challenges that other schools do not have...but that doesn't mean you sit still...we all know the definition of insanity...

 

[hockeyenthusiast]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

Sad to see another season end so poorly. Regarding roster size, I believe Colgate allows 25 student slots for men's hockey and the coaching staff recruits to achieve that number. When dressing 20, that leaves one extra goalie and four extra skaters. Sometimes with injuries, transfers, recruits who change their minds, etc we don't always have that number.

Looking at it another way... this may not be a bad thing. Most players know they will be in the lineup, not yanked for a mistake. It does put a premium on recruiting players with a strong desire to compete, not just be on the team. I believe we do get those type players for the most part although maybe not the top end talent of some other schools. Thus our players have to develop and improve over the course of their careers. Some do, some don't. But this is true of all college hockey programs.

Year in and year out we have been competitive with anyone early in the season, but then falter late. College hockey is fast and physically demanding... especially back to back games each weekend with lengthy bus rides. It's also a long season. My take is that historically we overplay our top forwards and D. They play a regular shift, all power plays, all man down, and then get double shifted in tight games... which most of ours are. By the last half of the year our best players are physically/mentally worn out and have lost the desire and stamina to perform at their best while the others haven't developed enough to pick up the slack.

With the cards we are dealt (small roster, small town, old rink. etc), I firmly believe DV has to use the entire roster more effectively if we are to be strong in the ECAC stretch run and the playoffs. A new rink may help to recruit some better top end talent, but if we overplay them the end result may not change much.

You are spot on with your assessment.

 

[czeckthebody]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

I don't know why Colgate collapsed in the last third of the season because when I saw them play Merrimack I was convinced they were a top 4 ECAC team

But a lot of the success in NCAA hockey comes down to goaltending.

You guys last year had a Frozen Four quality team--the leading scorer in the country, a whole bunch of guys playing pro this year, a great and deep defense. Think about the fact you beat Quinippiac 2 out of 3 less than a year ago--and QPAC is now the number one team in the country

But you go to AC and against Union your goalie lets in a silly goal early on, and it's over

Look at Brown--last or second to last in the first part of this season. Then they try a goalie who didn't play a minute in 2011-2012, he turns out to be a star, and they end up one of the toughest teams in the league

Or Yale a few years ago. Maybe the most talented team in ECAC history, should have gone to the FF, but they had no goaltending--their goalies let up absurd goals and killed the team's spirit.

Colgate needs scoring, for sure, but the freshmen will be a lot better in the second half next year than this year.

But it won't matter if your goalies keep letting in the easy ones.

 

[yaledoc]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

I don't know why Colgate collapsed in the last third of the season because when I saw them play Merrimack I was convinced they were a top 4 ECAC team

But a lot of the success in NCAA hockey comes down to goaltending.

You guys last year had a Frozen Four quality team--the leading scorer in the country, a whole bunch of guys playing pro this year, a great and deep defense. Think about the fact you beat Quinippiac 2 out of 3 less than a year ago--and QPAC is now the number one team in the country

But you go to AC and against Union your goalie lets in a silly goal early on, and it's over

Look at Brown--last or second to last in the first part of this season. Then they try a goalie who didn't play a minute in 2011-2012, he turns out to be a star, and they end up one of the toughest teams in the league

Or Yale a few years ago. Maybe the most talented team in ECAC history, should have gone to the FF, but they had no goaltending--their goalies let up absurd goals and killed the team's spirit.

Colgate needs scoring, for sure, but the freshmen will be a lot better in the second half next year than this year.

But it won't matter if your goalies keep letting in the easy ones.

Well said, Czeck. I like the part about Yale...... and it's SO true !!!

 

['Gate Radio]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

I don't think you can compare last year's team and this year's team in terms of the second half and here's a reasoned-out answer as to why.

But first quickly in terms of over-playing the top guys with heavy minutes, I think that was true in the past but this year, the fourth line guys had a lot more playing time and there was a mix throughout the season at least on the penalty kill so the same players weren't out there time and time again. That certainly helped the team stay fresh as the year went on.

Anyways, back to some analysis. Last year's team did struggle in the second half. There were many different factors at play. Remember prior to the season the team went to Europe in August and played several games in Italy. Now at the start of the college season, the extra practice time and game experience in Europe helped because Colgate was far ahead of other teams development because those teams didn't have the extra two weeks or whatever it was of ice time and practice. But, as the year wore on, other teams caught up in development and for the upperclassmen that went to Europe, it became a really long year that started in August and briefly stopped for just a few weeks for finals and the holidays. There essentially was little to no rest and even the best players get tired out.

Also...the Ferris State trip was a setback that took a while to recover from. That first night, Colgate's ahead going into the third and then Ferris State storms back and wins. That momentum carried over into the second game and the psyche of the team needed a little while to bounce back. It finally did by the time Cornell rolled around. While the team was struggling in the second half, Colgate became essentially a one-line team with Smith-Wagner-Wilson doing the heavy lifting and the secondary scoring was dried up. When the Firman-Mayer-Prockow line came around and other lines contributed, there was more scoring. That top line simply couldn't do it all for Colgate. And in that second half of league play, teams bared down a lot more on Smith and forced others to put the puck in the net. And Austin's prolific pace was great but eventually the goals were going to dry up.

Now, as for this year, what happened? Well, you had a very young team. Sure, there were eight seniors but you had seven or eight freshmen on the ice every night and four of five sophomores. No matter how good freshmen are, they go through growing pains and often have times when they struggle. Offhand, I can remember Austin Smith as a freshman going nearly 1.5 months without a goal and Chris Wagner also had some of the same goal drought problems. Unfortunately because the freshmen were just such a big part of the offense, when they struggled, so did the team. No one else was able to pick up the slack and therefore, the team suffered. Now, going forward, those freshmen will evolve and adapt more to the college game and scoring shouldn't be an issue.

I could write more here but it's lunchtime and I need to eat something.

While it's frustrating to see the season end so early, the future is bright with all the great youngsters in the program.

 

[yaledoc]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

I don't think you can compare last year's team and this year's team in terms of the second half and here's a reasoned-out answer as to why.

But first quickly in terms of over-playing the top guys with heavy minutes, I think that was true in the past but this year, the fourth line guys had a lot more playing time and there was a mix throughout the season at least on the penalty kill so the same players weren't out there time and time again. That certainly helped the team stay fresh as the year went on.

Anyways, back to some analysis. Last year's team did struggle in the second half. There were many different factors at play. Remember prior to the season the team went to Europe in August and played several games in Italy. Now at the start of the college season, the extra practice time and game experience in Europe helped because Colgate was far ahead of other teams development because those teams didn't have the extra two weeks or whatever it was of ice time and practice. But, as the year wore on, other teams caught up in development and for the upperclassmen that went to Europe, it became a really long year that started in August and briefly stopped for just a few weeks for finals and the holidays. There essentially was little to no rest and even the best players get tired out.

Also...the Ferris State trip was a setback that took a while to recover from. That first night, Colgate's ahead going into the third and then Ferris State storms back and wins. That momentum carried over into the second game and the psyche of the team needed a little while to bounce back. It finally did by the time Cornell rolled around. While the team was struggling in the second half, Colgate became essentially a one-line team with Smith-Wagner-Wilson doing the heavy lifting and the secondary scoring was dried up. When the Firman-Mayer-Prockow line came around and other lines contributed, there was more scoring. That top line simply couldn't do it all for Colgate. And in that second half of league play, teams bared down a lot more on Smith and forced others to put the puck in the net. And Austin's prolific pace was great but eventually the goals were going to dry up.

Now, as for this year, what happened? Well, you had a very young team. Sure, there were eight seniors but you had seven or eight freshmen on the ice every night and four of five sophomores. No matter how good freshmen are, they go through growing pains and often have times when they struggle. Offhand, I can remember Austin Smith as a freshman going nearly 1.5 months without a goal and Chris Wagner also had some of the same goal drought problems. Unfortunately because the freshmen were just such a big part of the offense, when they struggled, so did the team. No one else was able to pick up the slack and therefore, the team suffered. Now, going forward, those freshmen will evolve and adapt more to the college game and scoring shouldn't be an issue.

I could write more here but it's lunchtime and I need to eat something.

While it's frustrating to see the season end so early, the future is bright with all the great youngsters in the program.

Solid analysis....... and well-written (except, and apologies in advance, the past tense of bear down is bore down).

 

[Woodstick]

thanks TimU, but you're more confident than I am...I wish our seniors well; as a whole they are good kids (as virtually all of DV's kids are)...nonetheless it is hard to name ANY of the eight (Sinz perhaps) who really improved much over the last four years. Last year we were 17-10-3, finish 2-7 and end up 19-17-3...THIS year, even worse...13-9-4, finishing, get this, 1-9, to go 14-18-4...only ONCE in the past 7 years has a 'Gate hockey team finished the season ranked in the top one-half of all DI programs in the country (last year, barely made it)...we have to build off of this year's freshmen class, but I have serious questions if we have the resources (or the real desire) to do so...we can "happy talk" all we want (if we do, most of it should go to SG and his courageous actions), but the reality is very, very disappointing...we need a new commitment from the new AD, the President (good luck, Herbst doesn't know what a puck is) and the Board...and, yes, perhaps new assistant coaches...in prior posts I've listed other areas that we need to address; at this point I'm frankly sick and tired of watching a lot of the college hockey world pass us by while we (at best) stand still...

. We need more than just new assistant coaches. The buck stops with the head coach. If recruiting is a problem, it is the head coaches responsibility to fix it. If the players aren't improving, that's a coaching issue. I think it is time for a new rink and an entirely new coaching staff. Everyone on this thread always blames: 1. Goalies, 2. Seniors, 3. All players. We are just starting to see criticism of the assistants. Why doesn't anyone see an issue with Don? What would be the record or future event that would cause Colgate to fire Don? How long can we put up with the same results? Always different players but same results. Consistent factor is the head coach.

 

[TchrBill]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

I second the goaltending comment. Perhaps the most difficult position to play but defense wins championships. Have not noticed any improvement in that area since the volunteer-turned-assistant goaltending coach came to town. Where is our next Dave Gagnon or Shep Harder?!?!

'Gate Radio...appreciate your post...you don't comment on coaches or the arena/effects on recruiting...perhaps to be p/c?

Is it possible that players regret their decision? These cellar-standings are not a ringing endorsement for recruits. Austin Smith is long gone and who knows if his accolades even swayed anyone? Unfortunately, we didn't follow that season up with very much.

Tough end to a tough season. I am sad it is over! No more trips to Hamilton until October,2013.

You really should try a football game at Andy Kerr in September! Unfortunately, my allegiance for hockey has reversed itself from 80/20 to 70/30 in favor of football over the years. Never thought I would see that happen after almost 40 years.

 

[TchrBill]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

Was browsing ECAC playoff history...'Gate without much to brag about, though we have played our fair share of consy games with less-than-flattering results! Those early years...what a unique league it once was.

http://static.psbin.com/9/4/72efrcmzialjd1/Men_Tournament_Results.pdf

 

[TheGreenCoat]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

TchrBill...our last appearance in an ECAC tournament final (a final appearance, not a win) was in 1990...yes, 1990...now we've gotten to the semis a decent # of times: 1995, 1999 (final five), 2000, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2008, 2011, 2012...that's not bad...our record in semi-final games??? ZERO FOR NINE...in conso games??? three for nine...one can look at these numbers in a variety of ways, but the bottom line is not good...and only TWO NCAA appearances since that great 1990 team (2000 and 2005)...my point is that building a new arena and hoping for improved recruiting classes conveniently puts the burden on others, not the Board, not the President, not the AD, and not the coach...some counter with the nice facility at Q-Pac...please note that this arena has been around for many, many years...Rand Pecknold and Q-Pac in general have made this happen in recent years...thank God we have loyal, well-heeled alums who can cough up a lot of $$$ to (possibly) make a new rink happen...one wonder what commitments others who have a direct say in the direction of the program are willing to make...

 

[LTsatch]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

Maybe Adlon Adams had them pull the plug on you guys. Only kidding, REALLY

SH, this is the Yale announcing team.

 

[blemberg]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

TChrBill,
I agree! Looking out over the Chenango Valley from the top of Kerr in Sept is AWESOME. We were able to do it twice this year at the Holy Cross and then Gtown games (actually it was October). And, lucky for us, we got back to Hamilton for 2 women's hockey games, saw them play Cornell 3 times in Ithaca, the Patriot League Championship women's volleyball game, and a women's soccer game. Able to see the men 6 times in Hamilton, and tie Cornell in Ithaca. Bitter day last weekend watching the men's lacrosse team lose to Cornell. Hope to get back to catch a men's or women's lacrosse game on Tyler's field this Spring...but doubtful. Am going to Cheswick, PA April 27-28 to cheer on the Men's rugby team in the DII playoffs----gotta support my boys!!!!

 

[Miami Ice]

It's the coach, plain and simple. Achilles Center is often maligned but the coaching in recent years at Union has elevated that program to once unthinkable heights. With a stellar academic and athletic reputation, there is no reason Colgate can not reclaim some of 1990's glory.

 

[FlagDUDE08]

Re: Colgate 2012-13

Was browsing ECAC playoff history...'Gate without much to brag about, though we have played our fair share of consy games with less-than-flattering results! Those early years...what a unique league it once was.

http://static.psbin.com/9/4/72efrcmzialjd1/Men_Tournament_Results.pdf

Ah, back in the days when the regular season actually meant something...