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Colgate 2012-13
- Thread starter sshablak
- Start date
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still an empty net
Member
You are 100% right. This team has been AWFUL since the new year unfortunately. On top of that what we needed to happen in the ECAC just didn't happen, Dartmouth win, Yale win etc... I have thrown in the towel unfortunately, this team will be a 8-12 team in the ECAC sadly at the end of the year considering they could have been a top 4 team. Very disappointing lately after their start.
TheGreenCoat
Registered User
Re: Colgate 2012-13
thanks for your response "still an empty net"...my problem, and it has ALWAYS been my problem (go back six or seven years and check God **** it) is the long-term commitment to winning at the DI level in this sport...you DON'T do it by limiting roster size and you don't do it by maintaining a staff that has a track record of "below mediocre" performance...this isn't canasta boys and girls, it's the real world (maybe we should play tag where nobody loses)...you tell me Colgate community of hockey lovers, are you impressed by next year's incoming class??? God, I would love to be surprised...and we're being asked to fork out $$$ for a new rink??? If we don't know how to recruit why will it help recruiting??? Again, look at the rosters of the successful ECAC programs, then look at ours...fine...we're good in Canada...at least Ontario...you people ever look at Yale's or Q-Pac's roster??? THAT"S WHO WE ARE COMPETING AGAINST, and we can't even beat Princeton when they've got the Black Plague???
thanks for your response "still an empty net"...my problem, and it has ALWAYS been my problem (go back six or seven years and check God **** it) is the long-term commitment to winning at the DI level in this sport...you DON'T do it by limiting roster size and you don't do it by maintaining a staff that has a track record of "below mediocre" performance...this isn't canasta boys and girls, it's the real world (maybe we should play tag where nobody loses)...you tell me Colgate community of hockey lovers, are you impressed by next year's incoming class??? God, I would love to be surprised...and we're being asked to fork out $$$ for a new rink??? If we don't know how to recruit why will it help recruiting??? Again, look at the rosters of the successful ECAC programs, then look at ours...fine...we're good in Canada...at least Ontario...you people ever look at Yale's or Q-Pac's roster??? THAT"S WHO WE ARE COMPETING AGAINST, and we can't even beat Princeton when they've got the Black Plague???
Re: Colgate 2012-13
What an awful night.
The drive to the rink was chock-full of traffic (it took me 40 minutes to drive 3 miles on Boston streets!), it cost $10 to park, then $20 for a ticket, then the game ... a horrible 2nd period torched us. I'm starting to wonder if losing Spiro is affecting our gameplay. Hey -- we still scored a PPG and was perfect on the penalty kill. Special teams isn't a problem this year, when it has been in years past. But the little defensive breakdowns and "not playing a full 60 minutes" that plagued us in 2008-09 and 2010-11 is coming back to bite us. If this team does not get its act together then the season will end early.
I'd like to know why Spencer Finney was pulled for Eric Mihalik midway through the 3rd period? Perhaps a sudden change to give us momentum? Oh, by the way, we were pressing hard in the 3rd period but we just kept lasering slap-shots that went wide. Then Harvard's 4th goal (an empty-netter) looked like it was an "own goal" thanks to an odd puck-bounce.
One last thing: Brian Day, Kevin McNamara, and Wade Poplawski were in attendance tonight. I happened to spot them in the stands not too far from where I was seated. There was also a significant number of Colgate fans/alumni that were at the game too. It's unfortunate we couldn't win tonight.
The season isn't over. But if the team keeps playing like this it will be over soon. And I don't want it to end early.
What an awful night.
The drive to the rink was chock-full of traffic (it took me 40 minutes to drive 3 miles on Boston streets!), it cost $10 to park, then $20 for a ticket, then the game ... a horrible 2nd period torched us. I'm starting to wonder if losing Spiro is affecting our gameplay. Hey -- we still scored a PPG and was perfect on the penalty kill. Special teams isn't a problem this year, when it has been in years past. But the little defensive breakdowns and "not playing a full 60 minutes" that plagued us in 2008-09 and 2010-11 is coming back to bite us. If this team does not get its act together then the season will end early.
I'd like to know why Spencer Finney was pulled for Eric Mihalik midway through the 3rd period? Perhaps a sudden change to give us momentum? Oh, by the way, we were pressing hard in the 3rd period but we just kept lasering slap-shots that went wide. Then Harvard's 4th goal (an empty-netter) looked like it was an "own goal" thanks to an odd puck-bounce.
One last thing: Brian Day, Kevin McNamara, and Wade Poplawski were in attendance tonight. I happened to spot them in the stands not too far from where I was seated. There was also a significant number of Colgate fans/alumni that were at the game too. It's unfortunate we couldn't win tonight.
The season isn't over. But if the team keeps playing like this it will be over soon. And I don't want it to end early.
ColSkate65
Signer of '65 Arena first beam.
Re: Colgate 2012-13
Getting back to the game.....yeah, those stats on Finn are not too shabby (...sorry about that). Will be fun to see the competition next season.
Wondering if DV is getting Eric M. ready for a possible appearance in goal during the post-season? Finney has been great, but he's a frosh and this time of year is when fatigue can set in. Putting Eric in goal tonight might be a wake-up call. If he does indeed start in goal, post season, it wouldn't surprise me to see him rise to the occasion and steal a few games.
Getting back to the game.....yeah, those stats on Finn are not too shabby (...sorry about that). Will be fun to see the competition next season.
Wondering if DV is getting Eric M. ready for a possible appearance in goal during the post-season? Finney has been great, but he's a frosh and this time of year is when fatigue can set in. Putting Eric in goal tonight might be a wake-up call. If he does indeed start in goal, post season, it wouldn't surprise me to see him rise to the occasion and steal a few games.
TheGreenCoat
Registered User
Re: Colgate 2012-13
I'm really having a hard time in naming ONE senior who has tangibly improved since his freshman year...maybe Price and possibly Sinz...that's it...
I'm really having a hard time in naming ONE senior who has tangibly improved since his freshman year...maybe Price and possibly Sinz...that's it...
still an empty net
Member
Greencoat, hate to do this... But were you at the Quinny game last weekend with Price? IMHO it would be tough to say he has improved. Just a tough season all around after the start. Unbelievable we are hanging in the Pairwise but doesn't matter as we are at the bottom of the ECAC. It's been rough lately, bottom line.
so do you blame recruiting, coaching, playing time or the player?
TheGreenCoat
Registered User
Re: Colgate 2012-13
I blame the recruiting and the recruiting structure...IF you look at the bios of many of the kids in the ECAC you'll get an idea of what I am talking about...we lack in numbers and we lack in aggregate talent...we ARE quite good at recruiting top tier talent - Winchester, McIntire, Smith, Wagner - but we are NOT good at bringing in classes with any DEPTH of talent...this starts to get really tiresome after a while...everyone mourns the loss of Spiro (and why not, apart from his talent, the kid's a winner), but look at the injuries incurred by other schools...next year we'll bring in a couple of fourth liners to replace graduating fourth liners; i.e, self-imposed talent limits...boys and girls, let's face it...ZERO finals appearances since 1990 is not a coincidence (it's almost statistically impossible)...reality's a ***** sometimes, isn't it???
I blame the recruiting and the recruiting structure...IF you look at the bios of many of the kids in the ECAC you'll get an idea of what I am talking about...we lack in numbers and we lack in aggregate talent...we ARE quite good at recruiting top tier talent - Winchester, McIntire, Smith, Wagner - but we are NOT good at bringing in classes with any DEPTH of talent...this starts to get really tiresome after a while...everyone mourns the loss of Spiro (and why not, apart from his talent, the kid's a winner), but look at the injuries incurred by other schools...next year we'll bring in a couple of fourth liners to replace graduating fourth liners; i.e, self-imposed talent limits...boys and girls, let's face it...ZERO finals appearances since 1990 is not a coincidence (it's almost statistically impossible)...reality's a ***** sometimes, isn't it???
Re: Colgate 2012-13
And more research on our '13 recruits yielded the following information: Tim Harrison is only playing in a US prep but is a team captain and leading scorer for a team with one of the best records in the league. Perhaps more importantly, he is a big forward: 6'3". It will be nice to have a massive forward to complement our speedy smaller players. Derek Freeman is not having quite the success as Andrew Black in the EJHL, but he is still having a solid season pointwise. He was at one point being recruited by BU so there is some hope there.
And as I said earlier, it will be pivotal that the three d-men are good. Alas, stats alone really cannot tell us how good they are with their primary function.
And more research on our '13 recruits yielded the following information: Tim Harrison is only playing in a US prep but is a team captain and leading scorer for a team with one of the best records in the league. Perhaps more importantly, he is a big forward: 6'3". It will be nice to have a massive forward to complement our speedy smaller players. Derek Freeman is not having quite the success as Andrew Black in the EJHL, but he is still having a solid season pointwise. He was at one point being recruited by BU so there is some hope there.
And as I said earlier, it will be pivotal that the three d-men are good. Alas, stats alone really cannot tell us how good they are with their primary function.
Re: Colgate 2012-13
Here is a question for GreenCoat (phrased as devil's advocacy because I am in complete agreement with you that there has been a huge gap between our top line players and our complementary players for heaven knows how long now): how were we able to have such a successful, deep recruiting class this season?
Follow up: if it was done this season, why cannot it be repeated in the future?
Here is a question for GreenCoat (phrased as devil's advocacy because I am in complete agreement with you that there has been a huge gap between our top line players and our complementary players for heaven knows how long now): how were we able to have such a successful, deep recruiting class this season?
Follow up: if it was done this season, why cannot it be repeated in the future?
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Re: Colgate 2012-13
GreenCoat, thanks for where you are taking this! The BIG picture.
Colgate hockey's FUTURE!
The past many years have been frustrating and painful at times. Why can't Colgate University consistently field a solid team. What does the team and the university have to do to get to the next level? What can we do to help? A shiny new rink will help, but you've got to back it up with more.....A SUNY-Ithaca assistant coach told me a few years ago that they had a great recruit coming in who had narrowed his schools down to them, Colgate and BC---the recruit's biggest knock against Colgate were the bad facilities. We lost the kid to Cornell. In this day and age, and we are dealing with kids who like shiny new things, a team's locker room, rink, etc matter. It does seem like the dichotomy between our best skaters and the worst is huge. We have to get better second and third tier players.....maybe the new facilities can help with that. We can get a great first line, but then the rest of the skaters are just trying to keep up....just look at last year. We can't keep relying on just one player to win games for us....ala McDonald, Winchester, McIntyre, Smith, Wagner...(oh, what could have been with Wags-I know, 0.9 million $ is hard for a kid to turn down) I hate to say it, and Q-pac proves my point, but you gotta spend the money, to build a foundation for a great team. They built a shiny new rink and look at them now, but it takes more than that....better recruiting,etc. Union is following in their footsteps (minus the rink). I really think to get to the new level, Colgate's administration has to "get behind the program" and commit the resources necessary to deliver a winning team. Money, money, money. I'm tired of the complacency that seems to revolve around our team. Starr Rink, the Colgate campus, and Hamilton were buzzing in 1988,89,90...We haven't had that buzz since. I would love to know how Don Vaughan would answer the question: What do YOU need to deliver a championship contending team year after year? (I would be interested to hear how others would answer that question...hint...hint)
We have a GREAT university but only a decent team.
I bleed maroon, and know that we can do better!
GreenCoat, thanks for where you are taking this! The BIG picture.
Colgate hockey's FUTURE!
The past many years have been frustrating and painful at times. Why can't Colgate University consistently field a solid team. What does the team and the university have to do to get to the next level? What can we do to help? A shiny new rink will help, but you've got to back it up with more.....A SUNY-Ithaca assistant coach told me a few years ago that they had a great recruit coming in who had narrowed his schools down to them, Colgate and BC---the recruit's biggest knock against Colgate were the bad facilities. We lost the kid to Cornell. In this day and age, and we are dealing with kids who like shiny new things, a team's locker room, rink, etc matter. It does seem like the dichotomy between our best skaters and the worst is huge. We have to get better second and third tier players.....maybe the new facilities can help with that. We can get a great first line, but then the rest of the skaters are just trying to keep up....just look at last year. We can't keep relying on just one player to win games for us....ala McDonald, Winchester, McIntyre, Smith, Wagner...(oh, what could have been with Wags-I know, 0.9 million $ is hard for a kid to turn down) I hate to say it, and Q-pac proves my point, but you gotta spend the money, to build a foundation for a great team. They built a shiny new rink and look at them now, but it takes more than that....better recruiting,etc. Union is following in their footsteps (minus the rink). I really think to get to the new level, Colgate's administration has to "get behind the program" and commit the resources necessary to deliver a winning team. Money, money, money. I'm tired of the complacency that seems to revolve around our team. Starr Rink, the Colgate campus, and Hamilton were buzzing in 1988,89,90...We haven't had that buzz since. I would love to know how Don Vaughan would answer the question: What do YOU need to deliver a championship contending team year after year? (I would be interested to hear how others would answer that question...hint...hint)
We have a GREAT university but only a decent team.
I bleed maroon, and know that we can do better!
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Colgate 2012-13
It's not only the rink and facilities, though. Whenever I go to games at Starr (and I usually go every year whether men or women since it's the closest rink), the aura seems somber (granted, as a visiting fan I may enjoy that, but this is about you guys). Sure, you may have a few excited students that shuffle into the games late after taking too long to pre-game, but there's no energy in the building, whether it's from the students or the townies. You don't need a shiny new building to give you aura. I'd say the best thing that you can have are groups of passionate fans, such as yourselves, to get the word out to the town. That's why Cornell continues to sell out even in a down-in-the-dumps year like this one, or teams like Clarkson and RPI do so well with attendance and getting recruits. I remember reading some concerns about the university not being accommodating to the community, but the community is what would really provide excitement to Starr, bringing entire families to get excited about their local Raiders. This is why Colorado College does so well despite World Arena being about 3-4 miles away from their campus.
It's not only the rink and facilities, though. Whenever I go to games at Starr (and I usually go every year whether men or women since it's the closest rink), the aura seems somber (granted, as a visiting fan I may enjoy that, but this is about you guys). Sure, you may have a few excited students that shuffle into the games late after taking too long to pre-game, but there's no energy in the building, whether it's from the students or the townies. You don't need a shiny new building to give you aura. I'd say the best thing that you can have are groups of passionate fans, such as yourselves, to get the word out to the town. That's why Cornell continues to sell out even in a down-in-the-dumps year like this one, or teams like Clarkson and RPI do so well with attendance and getting recruits. I remember reading some concerns about the university not being accommodating to the community, but the community is what would really provide excitement to Starr, bringing entire families to get excited about their local Raiders. This is why Colorado College does so well despite World Arena being about 3-4 miles away from their campus.
Re: Colgate 2012-13
Hamilton is a tough town (Village) to get a large crowd into Starr night after night. Only 4,000 residents. 3,000 Colgate students. Compare that to an Ithaca---population of 31,000 and 21,000 Cornell students. (Not trying to make excuses and agree that I wish we could get more support into Starr....I bring my family of 5 from Ithaca for 5-10 games per year) But I agree, the vibe, buzz, whatever you want to call it is gone. It died during the 1990-1991 season when the administration starting cracking down on the cheers, chants, etc. 1989-90 was AWESOME in the stands!!! The student section was packed every night and it really felt like a little Lynah. Now, they blast piped-in super load music during the stoppages to drown out any cheers. It's now a more "family" environment.
Winning changes all of this though. If we don't win, the fans won't come. We win, we pack the house, just like when Cornell comes to town.
I'm hoping we can get a win tonight....energy, energy, energy.
Hamilton is a tough town (Village) to get a large crowd into Starr night after night. Only 4,000 residents. 3,000 Colgate students. Compare that to an Ithaca---population of 31,000 and 21,000 Cornell students. (Not trying to make excuses and agree that I wish we could get more support into Starr....I bring my family of 5 from Ithaca for 5-10 games per year) But I agree, the vibe, buzz, whatever you want to call it is gone. It died during the 1990-1991 season when the administration starting cracking down on the cheers, chants, etc. 1989-90 was AWESOME in the stands!!! The student section was packed every night and it really felt like a little Lynah. Now, they blast piped-in super load music during the stoppages to drown out any cheers. It's now a more "family" environment.
Winning changes all of this though. If we don't win, the fans won't come. We win, we pack the house, just like when Cornell comes to town.
I'm hoping we can get a win tonight....energy, energy, energy.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Colgate 2012-13
So much for "The Ultimate Home Ice Advantage", right?
I doubt it's entirely because your team is losing. You get a packed house when Cornell comes to town because Cornell travels well. The same is true with RPI and Clarkson. Sure, the DJ may not like silence in waiting for the bands to play; I agree that it's tacky that the band just has to play over the DJ. Cheers and chants are best for while the puck is in play. Even if it's something simple like "Let's Go 'Gate" or "De-fense" on a PK. Sure, fringe fans will come when the team is winning, but you should also have some special nights to get people into the seats. The women's game I went to this year was Autism Awareness night, and there were plenty of fans there, even for a women's game.
One thing that could also hurt is that you have a lot of competition with SUNY Morrisville. Aside from potentially W/L, what else are they doing to get people to their games?
So much for "The Ultimate Home Ice Advantage", right?
I doubt it's entirely because your team is losing. You get a packed house when Cornell comes to town because Cornell travels well. The same is true with RPI and Clarkson. Sure, the DJ may not like silence in waiting for the bands to play; I agree that it's tacky that the band just has to play over the DJ. Cheers and chants are best for while the puck is in play. Even if it's something simple like "Let's Go 'Gate" or "De-fense" on a PK. Sure, fringe fans will come when the team is winning, but you should also have some special nights to get people into the seats. The women's game I went to this year was Autism Awareness night, and there were plenty of fans there, even for a women's game.
One thing that could also hurt is that you have a lot of competition with SUNY Morrisville. Aside from potentially W/L, what else are they doing to get people to their games?
TchrBill
Go'Gate...
Re: Colgate 2012-13
Can't say I agree with either of those statements. The packed stands at Starr Rink have nothing to do with how well the Cornell fans travel; it's the only game that Colgate students come out for in droves. My guess is Cornell fans take away seats from the community for that game.
The other point is just laughable IMHO! I hope that is not the case! Traveling conditions can often be poor, if not deadly, on rural roads. More advertising in Oneida, Cazenovia, and Canastota with free tix for kids under 10 or giveaways...billboards around these towns...newspaper ads...perhaps I'm grasping at straws. For those who have never been to Colgate or tiny Hamilton, it is easy to pass judgment and come up with a quick fix but there are many variables.
Can't say I agree with either of those statements. The packed stands at Starr Rink have nothing to do with how well the Cornell fans travel; it's the only game that Colgate students come out for in droves. My guess is Cornell fans take away seats from the community for that game.
The other point is just laughable IMHO! I hope that is not the case! Traveling conditions can often be poor, if not deadly, on rural roads. More advertising in Oneida, Cazenovia, and Canastota with free tix for kids under 10 or giveaways...billboards around these towns...newspaper ads...perhaps I'm grasping at straws. For those who have never been to Colgate or tiny Hamilton, it is easy to pass judgment and come up with a quick fix but there are many variables.
FlagDUDE08
Banned
Re: Colgate 2012-13
Taking another look at the Morrisville attendance at being less than 1000, point taken. Utica certainly has some attendance to it, though.
What sort of relationship does the university have with Turning Stone? Is it only advertising on the boards? I don't think the facilities are there, but it would be something if you had a hockey game played there. I do agree that you aren't going to see an immediate night-and-day change, but I think it'd be fun to have a promotional night, like if you were to do a homecoming game similar to what RPI does with Freakout.
Taking another look at the Morrisville attendance at being less than 1000, point taken. Utica certainly has some attendance to it, though.
What sort of relationship does the university have with Turning Stone? Is it only advertising on the boards? I don't think the facilities are there, but it would be something if you had a hockey game played there. I do agree that you aren't going to see an immediate night-and-day change, but I think it'd be fun to have a promotional night, like if you were to do a homecoming game similar to what RPI does with Freakout.
TheGreenCoat
Registered User
Re: Colgate 2012-13
thanks for the comments boys and girls...believe it or not I am somewhat hopeful that our new AD will be more interested in competitive success that the previous one...students obvioulsy come and go, but one thing does remain the same: relative indifference to their fellow students playing DI athletics...I honestly don't think there's much we can do here, except, somewhat sadly, start winning so showing up at a hockey game will be socially cool. It's our culture, and it's just not at The Gate...one of the reasons we've been able to bring in a solid class this year, and I guessing a little here, was the close relationship between Jesse Winchester and the Spink lads. And don't get me wrong: I'd be overjoyed if next year's class is also a qualtiy one (it would mark the first time in a decade that we brought in two solid freshmen classes back-to-back)
thanks for the comments boys and girls...believe it or not I am somewhat hopeful that our new AD will be more interested in competitive success that the previous one...students obvioulsy come and go, but one thing does remain the same: relative indifference to their fellow students playing DI athletics...I honestly don't think there's much we can do here, except, somewhat sadly, start winning so showing up at a hockey game will be socially cool. It's our culture, and it's just not at The Gate...one of the reasons we've been able to bring in a solid class this year, and I guessing a little here, was the close relationship between Jesse Winchester and the Spink lads. And don't get me wrong: I'd be overjoyed if next year's class is also a qualtiy one (it would mark the first time in a decade that we brought in two solid freshmen classes back-to-back)
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