What's new
By:
USCHO Fan Forum

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

  • The USCHO Fan Forum has migrated to a new plaform, xenForo. Most of the function of the forum should work in familiar ways. Please note that you can switch between light and dark modes by clicking on the gear icon in the upper right of the main menu bar. We are hoping that this new platform will prove to be faster and more reliable. Please feel free to explore its features.

Coaching Carousel

Re: Coaching Carousel

<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Vines Named Interim Head Coach of Women's Hockey <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RPIHockey?src=hash">#RPIHockey</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ECACHockey?src=hash">#ECACHockey</a> <a href="https://t.co/7dH4s0aYii">https://t.co/7dH4s0aYii</a></p>— RPI Athletics (@RPIAthletics) <a href="https://twitter.com/RPIAthletics/status/879751017876901889">June 27, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
 
Ralph Baer said:
<blockquote class="twitter-tweet" data-lang="en"><p lang="en" dir="ltr">Vines Named Interim Head Coach of Women's Hockey <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/RPIHockey?src=hash">#RPIHockey</a> <a href="https://twitter.com/hashtag/ECACHockey?src=hash">#ECACHockey</a> <a href="https://t.co/7dH4s0aYii">https://t.co/7dH4s0aYii</a></p>— RPI Athletics (@RPIAthletics) <a href="https://twitter.com/RPIAthletics/status/879751017876901889">June 27, 2017</a></blockquote> <script async src="//platform.twitter.com/widgets.js" charset="utf-8"></script>
Click to expand...

What a joke this AD is. Nothing personal against Vines but here's another hiring of a person with no experience in women's hockey. Another insult to the coaches and players of our sport.
 
Re: Coaching Carousel

shelfit said:
What a joke this AD is. Nothing personal against Vines but here's another hiring of a person with no experience in women's hockey. Another insult to the coaches and players of our sport.
Click to expand...

Wonder how many of the players were asked their opinion? Oh yeah who cares what the women players think. Someone should really dig into this, I think there is more to this whole thing.

Well good luck women and Vines, change of pace and systems was needed.
 
Re: Coaching Carousel

Northbynorthwest said:
Wonder how many of the players were asked their opinion? Oh yeah who cares what the women players think. Someone should really dig into this, I think there is more to this whole thing.

Well good luck women and Vines, change of pace and systems was needed.
Click to expand...

He's RPI's third straight women's head coach who was a men's AC at RPI.
 
Re: Coaching Carousel

shelfit said:
What a joke this AD is. Nothing personal against Vines but here's another hiring of a person with no experience in women's hockey. Another insult to the coaches and players of our sport.
Click to expand...


Did Cahill have experience in women's hockey? Did Burke? I bet if you surveyed the coaches out there, a vast minority of them didn't have experience in women's hockey before being hired. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but it sounds like you are one bitter person when it comes to this stuff.
 
jericho said:
Did Cahill have experience in women's hockey? Did Burke? I bet if you surveyed the coaches out there, a vast minority of them didn't have experience in women's hockey before being hired. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but it sounds like you are one bitter person when it comes to this stuff.
Click to expand...

Off the top of my head, didn't Derraugh at Cornell and Wells at SLU, both successful coaches, move from their respective men's program to the women's side?
 
jericho said:
Did Cahill have experience in women's hockey? Did Burke? I bet if you surveyed the coaches out there, a vast minority of them didn't have experience in women's hockey before being hired. You're certainly entitled to your opinion, but it sounds like you are one bitter person when it comes to this stuff.
Click to expand...

Women's hockey in its modern incarnation has been around long enough that there are many very qualified coaches that have been dedicated to the sport for long enough to be considered for jobs like this before an AD "needs" to look at his men's hockey staff for "help," including the two assistants that are already part of the RPI women's hockey staff, especially for an interim position. So in this case you have 4 assistant coaches, 2 on the women's team and 2 on the men's team. How do you decide that a men's assistant is a better choice than a women's assistant?! It's a slap in the faces to both women's assistants right there at RPI as well as any other women's coaches elsewhere that might have wanted a crack at that job. The message sent here is men's hockey coaches are a "better" option and that's a big crock of you know what. Pardon me if I prefer to see coaches that are and have been committed to women's hockey be rewarded by getting to fill these jobs instead of the old school approach of turning to an assistant coach from the men's team to "save the day." If I was either of the RPI women's assistants I'd already be looking for a new job after being insulted like this.
 
Re: Coaching Carousel

Derraugh played for the Cornell men's team back in the 90s, but he was't a coach for the men's team. With that said, I don't recall seeing prior women's hockey coaching experience as part of his bio.
 
Re: Coaching Carousel

shelfit said:
Women's hockey in its modern incarnation has been around long enough that there are many very qualified coaches that have been dedicated to the sport for long enough to be considered for jobs like this before an AD "needs" to look at his men's hockey staff for "help," including the two assistants that are already part of the RPI women's hockey staff, especially for an interim position. So in this case you have 4 assistant coaches, 2 on the women's team and 2 on the men's team. How do you decide that a men's assistant is a better choice than a women's assistant?! It's a slap in the faces to both women's assistants right there at RPI as well as any other women's coaches elsewhere that might have wanted a crack at that job. The message sent here is men's hockey coaches are a "better" option and that's a big crock of you know what. Pardon me if I prefer to see coaches that are and have been committed to women's hockey be rewarded by getting to fill these jobs instead of the old school approach of turning to an assistant coach from the men's team to "save the day." If I was either of the RPI women's assistants I'd already be looking for a new job after being insulted like this.
Click to expand...

Let's say you're an AD. You fire a head coach that has been there for 14 years because of lack of success/progress. You are going to hire an interim coach. Would you appoint one of the assistant coaches that was hired by the head coach you just fired and presumably is aligned with his thinking/methodology? Probably not, even if just for the appearance. Also, Vine has a much more substantial coaching history. I don't agree with the whole firing timing and the interim approach, but if you're going to do it I wouldn't have picked an assistant to be the head coach.

Weirdly, Burke is still listed as the head coach on the website and Vine is not listed as a men's assistant, so I have to believe that he was cut loose by the new men's coach prior to this. So he is also probably pretty cheap.
 
Re: Coaching Carousel

Eeyore said:
Far more resources, including, I suspect, those devoted to the coach's salary.
Click to expand...

There is NOTHING at RPI that would make it a more attractive position than Penn State - school, location, facilities, hockey history, team, scholarships, administrative support, ease of admission, .... NOTHING! Penn State is even comparable in engineering/technical education (which didn't use to be the case).
 
Re: Coaching Carousel

HockeyEast33 said:
Let's say you're an AD. You fire a head coach that has been there for 14 years because of lack of success/progress. You are going to hire an interim coach. Would you appoint one of the assistant coaches that was hired by the head coach you just fired and presumably is aligned with his thinking/methodology? Probably not, even if just for the appearance. Also, Vine has a much more substantial coaching history. I don't agree with the whole firing timing and the interim approach, but if you're going to do it I wouldn't have picked an assistant to be the head coach.

Weirdly, Burke is still listed as the head coach on the website and Vine is not listed as a men's assistant, so I have to believe that he was cut loose by the new men's coach prior to this. So he is also probably pretty cheap.
Click to expand...

Burke was indeed cut by Dave Smith and replaced recently by Dan Jewell. Vines also probably wants to remain in Troy since his wife Sachi Ena Vines is the Athletic Department's Director of Marketing & Promotions. http://www.rpiathletics.com/staff.aspx?staff=174
 
Ralph Baer said:
Burke was indeed cut by Dave Smith and replaced recently by Dan Jewell. Vines also probably wants to remain in Troy since his wife Sachi Ena Vines is the Athletic Department's Director of Marketing & Promotions. http://www.rpiathletics.com/staff.aspx?staff=174
Click to expand...

You mean Vines was cut by Smith.

"Vines also probably wants to remain in Troy since his wife Sachi Ena Vines is the Athletic Department's Director of Marketing & Promotions."

Ah, so there's your answer to the there's more going on here than meets the eye question. Vines owes his new job to his wife. Pretty simple.

It makes me wonder, if Smith had kept Vines would Burke still have his job?! I'm willing to bet he would. The AD obviously valued keeping Vines and his wife more than keeping Burke. It explains the timing of Burke's release and the quick announcement of Vine's appointment as interim. This was all mapped out long before Saturday's announcement of Burke's firing. Ruthless AD. Does Burke now have grounds for a lawsuit???
 
Last edited:
Re: Coaching Carousel

I don't know enough about the coaching situation at RPI to comment one way or another on the previous discussion. However, in reading his Bio I would think this would be somewhat encouraging to fans of the RPI women's program.

"As a student-athlete with the Pioneers, Vines captained the team in the 2001-02 season when they won the WCHA regular season championship, the playoff championship and advanced to the quarterfinals of the NCAA Tournament. He was the recipient of the Sportsmanship Award — the third of his career — as well as the Most Inspirational Player Award and the Strength & Conditioning Athlete of the Year for all DU student-athletes."
 
Re: Coaching Carousel

FiveHoleFrenzy said:
I don't know enough about the coaching situation at RPI to comment one way or another on the previous discussion. However, in reading his Bio I would think this would be somewhat encouraging to fans of the RPI women's program.

"As a student-athlete with the Pioneers, Vines captained the team in the 2001-02 season when they won the WCHA regular season championship, the playoff championship and advanced to the quarterfinals of the NCAA Tournament. He was the recipient of the Sportsmanship Award — the third of his career — as well as the Most Inspirational Player Award and the Strength & Conditioning Athlete of the Year for all DU student-athletes."
Click to expand...

No offense, I don't know Vines at all and it's great he worked and received these awards BUT just how is this especially encouraging?

With Sachi already being part of the ADs staff it does reek of possible nepotism.

I still think there's more to the release being so late, it doesn't make sense. What, an AD never had two coaching vacancies at once?

I think it's a stretch to think that since Smith let go of Vines that gave McElroy the reason to let go of Burke. The record was more than enough reason on it's own. Hate to bring it up but SA and JB had similar records, AD fires SA because it's a men's program and not acceptable, but doesn't hold the women's coach to the same standard. Reminds me a bit of Union, and Title IX.
 
Last edited:
Northbynorthwest said:
No offense, I don't know Vines at all and it's great he worked and received these awards BUT just how is this especially encouraging?

With Sachi already being part of the ADs staff it does reek of possible nepotism.

I still think there's more to the release being so late, it doesn't make sense. What, an AD never had two coaching vacancies at once?

I think it's a stretch to think that since Smith let go of Vines that gave McElroy the reason to let go of Burke. The record was more than enough reason on it's own. Hate to bring it up but SA and JB had similar records, AD fires SA because it's a men's program and not acceptable, but doesn't hold the women's coach to the same standard. Reminds me a bit of Union.
Click to expand...

Spot on. Agree 100%.
 
Re: Coaching Carousel

Northbynorthwest said:
I still think there's more to the release being so late, it doesn't make sense. What, an AD never had two coaching vacancies at once?
Click to expand...

Totally don't believe that the real reason they waited is that they could only do 1 national search at a time. I mean, it is even stupid for the AD to say something along those lines - makes him look like an idiot.

More likely, something like this:
- School economics at RPI are not very good (debt is very low rated and they are struggling financially). This is a result (by majority opinion of alumni) of extremely poor fiscal management by the current administration and high investment in fringe areas (a massively expensive state of the art performing arts center at RPI??? Seriously??).
- The school has seriously upgraded its investment in D3 programs - see the football stadium and other new facilities that have been built in the last ~10 years. My guess is that these are imposing a very large depreciation and maintenance expense on the school that they probably poorly planned for. Additionally, many of these programs have been successful and they realize they are more of a draw for the school then D1 women's hockey.
- Severance packages, coach searches, and hiring coaches can be expensive. They probably have severe budget restrictions related to above and a salary cap on coach expenses. They needed to figure out how much the men's coaches were going to absorb of the available funding before they proceeded with the women's team. My guess is was a lot and more than they expected.
- Burke is probably well paid given he has been the HC for 14 years and likely has gotten annual raises. Cutting him was a savings (and easily justified). They will use a low paid interim this season, solving a short term budget issue for next season.
- They will do a national search next year in a different budget year when they can afford it. And they will go all U Maine on it to keep the costs down by underpaying the market.
 
Re: Coaching Carousel

Northbynorthwest said:
No offense, I don't know Vines at all and it's great he worked and received these awards BUT just how is this especially encouraging?
Click to expand...

"Especially encouraging" is your wording...Not what I said. How is it not SOMEWHAT encouraging to know that when the guy talks the talk he has actually walked the walk with sportsmanship and was seen by his peers as inspirational? Seems like pretty good qualities to have in a leader.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top