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Climate Change 2: Thank God for Global Warming

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Re: Climate Change 2: Thank God for Global Warming

The Sicatoka said:
In the pre-genus homo eras, CO2 levels were higher. Was there life on this planet during those times? What caused the CO2 levels then? Why'd they drop?

Another article to peruse on topic.



We'll kill ourselves off (unless the Sun or the planet beat us to it), but the planet will still have life. Call it a reboot. Nature wins.
Click to expand...

Just remember, based on your acceptance of money over people, which is what your justification is, that when its your and your families time to die for the all mighty dollar, you have already accepted that fate.

Are you REALLY accepting that you and your family can die due to human work? Really? Feel free to answer that.

Pretending that this is just normal, and not accepting that humans can have an impact is kind of nuts. What odds of human cause do you want before anything is done? 5, 10, 50, 90 percent? If there's a chance that we can slow this change down, and save people's lives- why should we not?

Justifying this change in atmosphere that "it happened before so we will be ok" ignores what can and is happening just so people who are far richer than you can make a whole lot more money. Funny how we pan communism for killing a lot of people, from Russia of more than a few periods to China now with their emissions. Yet when it comes to capitalism, doing the exact same thing, just on a different scale, is fine.
 
Re: Climate Change 2: Thank God for Global Warming

alfablue said:
Just remember, based on your acceptance of money over people, which is what your justification is, that when its your and your families time to die for the all mighty dollar, you have already accepted that fate.

Are you REALLY accepting that you and your family can die due to human work? Really? Feel free to answer that.

Pretending that this is just normal, and not accepting that humans can have an impact is kind of nuts. What odds of human cause do you want before anything is done? 5, 10, 50, 90 percent? If there's a chance that we can slow this change down, and save people's lives- why should we not?

Justifying this change in atmosphere that "it happened before so we will be ok" ignores what can and is happening just so people who are far richer than you can make a whole lot more money. Funny how we pan communism for killing a lot of people, from Russia of more than a few periods to China now with their emissions. Yet when it comes to capitalism, doing the exact same thing, just on a different scale, is fine.
Click to expand...

The problem was the politicization of science in the first place. When the fossil fuel industry, like the cancer stick industry before them, started attacking reason and evidence everyone should have laughed at them. When the GOP latched onto them (became them, with Cheney in power) then all the R voters became complicit. If your party is "drill, baby, drill" you're murdering the planet, deliberately. But R's have (albeit not very bright) kids too, so then all the psychological defense mechanisms of denial and backfire kick in. More evidence produces even greater certainty that the evidence is lying. It has to be, otherwise he's been hurting his own kids. Gleefully.

GOP leaders were cynics. GOP voters were saps. A pattern emerges.
 
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Re: Climate Change 2: Thank God for Global Warming

Rant:
I just don't understand how people can be so divided on protecting our natural resources.
As a hunter, it makes sense to protect the land so more animals can thrive so hunting remains viable.
As a nature lover, I want to keep our outdoors a place to get away and hike, explore and camp.
There should be no reason both sides can't agree protecting nature is important.
Even the dbag Texans who only go to Colorado to ride their dirt bikes and destroy the trails should want to protect these areas.
 
Re: Climate Change 2: Thank God for Global Warming

cF[Authentic] said:
Rant:
I just don't understand how people can be so divided on protecting our natural resources.
As a hunter, it makes sense to protect the land so more animals can thrive so hunting remains viable.
As a nature lover, I want to keep our outdoors a place to get away and hike, explore and camp.
There should be no reason both sides can't agree protecting nature is important.
Even the dbag Texans who only go to Colorado to ride their dirt bikes and destroy the trails should want to protect these areas.
Click to expand...

The "outdoorsy" subset of people is very strange when you look at it. To use fishing as an example:

On the surface, when asked, they will say that they are for protecting out resources. But of those people, how many of them are the ones that leave garbage all over any access point (scrap line, worm/hook containers, food packages, etc.)? The ones that are oblivious to any sort of regulation (catch limits) or just downright ignore the regs? These are people who actively partake in the hobby, but are also the ones destroying it. Every time we lose access to a place due to trash being involved (both human and physical) the finger is always pointed elsewhere. It's always the "other guy" that littered, but not me! There is always the older crowd who points and says "back in my day we could catch 100+ __________ and keep every one! It's BS that I can only keep 5 now!"

That is the biggest problem the outdoors face. It's the inability to look inwards at our own kind that are causing the problems. And at least here in the Chicago area, I'd wager the vote is probably split somewhat even between D and R with the subset of people in question....
 
Re: Climate Change 2: Thank God for Global Warming

cF[Authentic] said:
Rant:
I just don't understand how people can be so divided on protecting our natural resources.
As a hunter, it makes sense to protect the land so more animals can thrive so hunting remains viable.
As a nature lover, I want to keep our outdoors a place to get away and hike, explore and camp.
There should be no reason both sides can't agree protecting nature is important.
Even the dbag Texans who only go to Colorado to ride their dirt bikes and destroy the trails should want to protect these areas.
Click to expand...

As a farmer, you want to protect the natural resources and not alter the environment so that you can continue to farm, too. How the Farmers are in such denial is kind of odd. All the while as they complain about non normal rainfall and flooding.
 
Re: Climate Change 2: Thank God for Global Warming

RaceBoarder said:
The "outdoorsy" subset of people is very strange when you look at it. To use fishing as an example:

On the surface, when asked, they will say that they are for protecting out resources. But of those people, how many of them are the ones that leave garbage all over any access point (scrap line, worm/hook containers, food packages, etc.)? The ones that are oblivious to any sort of regulation (catch limits) or just downright ignore the regs? These are people who actively partake in the hobby, but are also the ones destroying it. Every time we lose access to a place due to trash being involved (both human and physical) the finger is always pointed elsewhere. It's always the "other guy" that littered, but not me! There is always the older crowd who points and says "back in my day we could catch 100+ __________ and keep every one! It's BS that I can only keep 5 now!"

That is the biggest problem the outdoors face. It's the inability to look inwards at our own kind that are causing the problems. And at least here in the Chicago area, I'd wager the vote is probably split somewhat even between D and R with the subset of people in question....
Click to expand...

Even more odd is some of the denial that is clearly mad made problems. There's a lake in the UP (Otter Lake if you are wondering) where in the old days, you could limit out perch. Even when I was a kid, you could get a bucket full. Then it was dammed up, in theory to slow the filling of the lake from the Sturgeon River.... Since then, the fish population has gone essentially to zero. Just ran into someone who moved to the area recently when we were up there a few weeks ago- they were stunned to hear how good the fishing was, even when I was a kid 40 years ago.

This was totally a man made change. Why can't people see that man can have an impact?
 
Re: Climate Change 2: Thank God for Global Warming

alfablue said:
As a farmer, you want to protect the natural resources and not alter the environment so that you can continue to farm, too. How the Farmers are in such denial is kind of odd. All the while as they complain about non normal rainfall and flooding.
Click to expand...

Probably very similar to what I posted above about fisher people... "It's Dave's fault for using old/harmful methods and causing the problem!" But then that same guy goes and uses the same method because that's what he's been taught is the right way....

People don't want to admit that maybe they are part of the problem and won't be part of the solution because that takes an effort to change their ways...
 
Re: Climate Change 2: Thank God for Global Warming

RaceBoarder said:
Probably very similar to what I posted above about fisher people... "It's Dave's fault for using old/harmful methods and causing the problem!" But then that same guy goes and uses the same method because that's what he's been taught is the right way....

People don't want to admit that maybe they are part of the problem and won't be part of the solution because that takes an effort to change their ways...
Click to expand...

The less scary thing is that I've seen many farmers who do see themselves as part of the problem. Which is good to hear. They are changing methods to attack many items, from soil depletion to flooding to algae blooms. The estimate of farms that seem to be working on this is probably less than the fishers and hunters that you encounter- just 10%. But at least some see themselves as both part of the problem and part of the solution.
 
Re: Climate Change 2: Thank God for Global Warming

RaceBoarder said:
People don't want to admit that maybe they are part of the problem and won't be part of the solution because that takes an effort to change their ways...
Click to expand...

It took 50 years for recycling to go from "that's crazy" to "that's obvious." I'm old enough to remember when people who recycled were laughed at as insane and impractical Luddites.

Carbon footprint and renewables will follow the same trajectory. It's only been in the public arena now for about 20 years; we still have another 30 to go. Plus with recycling there wasn't much of an industry pushback to falsify the science (Big Styrofoam?), whereas with fossil fuels there's a vampire squid trying to stifle the debate.
 
Re: Climate Change 2: Thank God for Global Warming

The Sicatoka said:
In the pre-genus homo eras, CO2 levels were higher. Was there life on this planet during those times? What caused the CO2 levels then? Why'd they drop?

Another article to peruse on topic.



We'll kill ourselves off (unless the Sun or the planet beat us to it), but the planet will still have life. Call it a reboot. Nature wins.
Click to expand...

Earth has experienced 5 mass extinctions before the one we are currently living through: 450 million years ago, 86% of all species dead; 380 million years ago, 75% dead; 255 million, 96% dead, 205 million, 80% dead, 70 million, 75%. All but the one that killed the dinosaurs involved climate change produced by greenhouse gas.

250 million years ago, CO2 warmed the planet by 5 degrees C. We are currently adding carbon to the atmosphere at least 10 times faster--100 times faster than any point in human history before industrialization. There is now a third more carbon in the atmosphere than any point in the last 800,000 years--possibly as long as 15 million years.

More than half of the carbon exhaled into the atmosphere by the burning of fossil fuels has been emitted in the last 3 decades, which means we have done as much damage to the fate of the planet and its ability to sustain human life and civilization during that time than in all the millennia that preceded it.

Taken from The Uninhabitable Earth: Life After Warming, by David Wallace Wells.

This book has been criticized, by some climate change advocates as well as deniers, as being too pessimistic--an attempt to scare people. But it's worth the read. We need to be scared, for all those who deny or minimize our role in global warming or its severity.
 
Re: Climate Change 2: Thank God for Global Warming

burd said:
Earth has experienced 5 mass extinctions before the one we are currently living through: 450 million years ago, 86% of all species dead; 380 million years ago, 75% dead; 255 million, 96% dead, 205 million, 80% dead, 70 million, 75%. All but the one that killed the dinosaurs involved climate change produced by greenhouse gas.

250 million years ago, CO2 warmed the planet by 5 degrees C. We are currently adding carbon to the atmosphere at least 10 times faster--100 times faster than any point in human history before industrialization. There is now a third more carbon in the atmosphere than any point in the last 800,000 years--possibly as long as 15 million years.

More than half of the carbon exhaled into the atmosphere by the burning of fossil fuels has been emitted in the last 3 decades, which means we have done as much damage to the fate of the planet and its ability to sustain human life and civilization during that time than in all the millennia that preceded it.

Taken from The Uninhabitable Earth: Life After Warming, by David Wallace Wells.

This book has been criticized, by some climate change advocates as well as deniers, as being too pessimistic--an attempt to scare people. But it's worth the read. We need to be scared, for all those who deny or minimize our role in global warming or its severity.
Click to expand...

We are toast.
 
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